Contracts -- Buyer Beware of These!

[Brooklynn]

Originally Posted by mypreciouspups

Oh I bet you are fuming that you did not think to let all the other good breeders know in your area ahead of time.. oh that would pi** me off to no end.. sorry for being so blunt.. but people do sometimes get to me with so little care when it comes to our beloved yorkies.. that poor baby.. my heart goes out to him and I do not shed tears easy,. but my eyes are sure tearing and hurting right now for him.. I kept my gracie as after all the care I gave her, I could not imagine anyone having her .. I just felt I could not trust another sole with her.. and we had her spayed and love her to death... she was not breeding quality and yet she needed to be so loved and cared for.. health wise she was fine in the end.. but due to her not being able to walk.. she ended up with a roach back.. yes.. the dad is not with my best friend.. as a pet only...

I love the breeder of this little guy and he is well taken care of!

Donna

[BakersDozen]

Originally Posted by Ladyhawk

I'm not sure I agree with the buyer having all of the options. Why does the seller not get to make a decision? If one of my pups is suspected of having a congental problem I would rather refund the money and take my baby back and have his care given by a vet that I trust under my supervision. I don't want to be forced to pay the vet bills of someone that I don't know who may be doing unnecessary tests or work and may be overcharging me as well. If I am to flip the bill than I should be able to make the decisions. I also feel that 15 days is a bit long to document contagious or infectious disease. If something like parvo shows up 14 days after that pup leaves my home it was not contracted here. It just seems to leave the door open to some crafty scammers. I understand consumers wanting to be protected but breeders need to be protected now days as well, everyone is looking to get something for nothing.

Great post!

[MyFairLacy]

Originally Posted by Ladyhawk

Are you suggesting that we guarantee against everything as the dog gets older? No one can predict that a dog will never go blind, or deaf, or have some health problem down the road. We can only say that as a puppy this dog can hear, see and has been found healthy by our vet. I had a dog that became paralyzed at 6 years old because of a weak disk in his back that slipped and severed a nerve. The weakness had apparently always been there but hadn't caused a problem until that time. I never thought about going back to the breeder and blaming them. Ruffles was a wonderful pet for 6 years and it was just something that happened. He was a living being not a mechanical creation, he wasn't created by a human and couldn't be warrented by one.

No..I'm not saying that. But many breeders give a one year guarantee against life-threatening congenital defects. I don't think that is enough. I want at least a one year guarantee against ALL congenital defects (although I really like that Brooklynn offers a 3 yeat guarantee). Most congenital defects are not life-threatening as I said before. Blindness and deafness are not always congenital...a lot of that naturally comes with age..but I was talking about the puppy being born blind or deaf or developing it at a very early age. I just think using the phrase "life-threatening" puts a loophole there for the breeder to get out of taking responsibility...they could easily say "well, it's not life threatening - that's surgery is optional" for almost anything.

A lot of genetic things don't show up until the dog is much older...I'm not saying the breeder needs to refund money on a 6 year old dog that develops diabetes or MVD...although an ethical breeder will want you to keep in touch and report any health issues that eventually show up. By contract, I'm supposed to report to the breeder any health issues that my youngest cat develops during her lifetime...she's over a year old now. I don't expect her breeder to refund or replace her if she all of a sudden has some health problem arise...but she does want to know so she can keep records and explore what's going on in her lines..and if she needs to make any changes she will.

[MyFairLacy]

Originally Posted by Brooklynn

I'm sure Lacy is not saying for the entire life span of the dog in the guarentee. I guarentee for 3 years for several genetic health issues just not life threatening in my contract after that I do not. I would love to be contacted if something were to show up later in life so I know what has happened so maybe I can prevent it in the future.
Most severe cases show up in the earlier years of a dogs life. I do not cover LP unless it's a grade 4 for one year. I also cover Leggs Perethess also for the first year. If you are a responsible breeder then you cover the most common genetic health issues within your breed and in my opinion for longer than a year because it can show up within the first 2 to 3 years of the dogs life. But of course this is just me!
Donna Bird
Brooklynn's Yorkshire Terriers

exactly what I meant!

I think a lot of contracts have very vague writing and loopholes so the buyer isn't protected at all. And "life threatening" only is one of those loopholes

[Brooklynn]

Originally Posted by MyFairLacy

No..I'm not saying that. But many breeders give a one year guarantee against life-threatening congenital defects. I don't think that is enough. I want at least a one year guarantee against ALL congenital defects (although I really like that Brooklynn offers a 3 yeat guarantee). Most congenital defects are not life-threatening as I said before. Blindness and deafness are not always congenital...a lot of that naturally comes with age..but I was talking about the puppy being born blind or deaf or developing it at a very early age. I just think using the phrase "life-threatening" puts a loophole there for the breeder to get out of taking responsibility...they could easily say "well, it's not life threatening - that's surgery is optional" for almost anything.

A lot of genetic things don't show up until the dog is much older...I'm not saying the breeder needs to refund money on a 6 year old dog that develops diabetes or MVD...although an ethical breeder will want you to keep in touch and report any health issues that eventually show up. By contract, I'm supposed to report to the breeder any health issues that my youngest cat develops during her lifetime...she's over a year old now. I don't expect her breeder to refund or replace her if she all of a sudden has some health problem arise...but she does want to know so she can keep records and explore what's going on in her lines..and if she needs to make any changes she will.

You know what I like about Lacy here....she's a well informed buyer! Most are not as informed as this "young" lady and I'm proud that someone even at her age is doing their homework when making a purchase. I wish more buyers were this educated
I wish more breeders were educated also....

Donna Bird
Brooklynn's Yorkshire Terriers

[MyFairLacy]

Originally Posted by Ladyhawk

I'm not sure I agree with the buyer having all of the options. Why does the seller not get to make a decision? If one of my pups is suspected of having a congental problem I would rather refund the money and take my baby back and have his care given by a vet that I trust under my supervision. I don't want to be forced to pay the vet bills of someone that I don't know who may be doing unnecessary tests or work and may be overcharging me as well. If I am to flip the bill than I should be able to make the decisions. I also feel that 15 days is a bit long to document contagious or infectious disease. If something like parvo shows up 14 days after that pup leaves my home it was not contracted here. It just seems to leave the door open to some crafty scammers. I understand consumers wanting to be protected but breeders need to be protected now days as well, everyone is looking to get something for nothing.

But most buyers get very attached to their dogs. Even if they've only had them for 3 months or so, they probably already love them and consider them their babies. They don't just want to give their baby back.

I think that if a puppy has a defect or health problem covered by the health guarantee, the breeder should pay the vet bills UP TO the amount of the purchase price. So for ex. if the puppy cost $1500 and has a defect that cost $800 in vet bills, the breeder would pay for that $800. But if that $1500 puppy had a $3000 vet bill, the breeder would just be obligated to return the $1500. Anything above that would be nice, but not necessary. I think it's good to give the option of taking the puppy back, but most people won't want to do that because they already love the dog.

I don't like the idea of a replacement puppy..if you already bought one defective dog from a breeder, why would you want another one?

[Dior'sMom]

Originally Posted by Brooklynn

Yes, I cover LP for the first year "ONLY" if it's a grade 4. Grades 1-3 can be caused from an injury. I feel in the first year of a dogs life and it's a grade 4 at that young of an age it's genetic.
Donna Bird
Brooklynn's Yorkshire Terriers

Wow! I would travel to u to get my next baby

[MyFairLacy]

Originally Posted by Brooklynn

All I know the breeders demanded them bring the puppy back that day and handed them their money and immediately took him to the vet and the vet confirmed it was head tramua from being dropped because when he examined him the day before NOTHING was wrong with that puppy! It infuriates me to no end someone would do that! And needless to say they went to another breeder in the area and got another puppy....had I known that to happen these folks would have never gotten a puppy in this area!
All this breeder was concerned about was the puppy's well being and he's still deaf, blind and has seizures but it is controlled for now until he gets worse and has to cross rainbow bridge...the reason I know all this is because I know the breeder personally (no it's not me) I wasn't breeding 4 years ago. It's a sad case but the little guy is so sweet.

That's so aweful! That poor puppy I admire the breeder for refunding the money just to get it back where it would be properly cared for. But those people make me so mad How can someone injure a dog and get rid of it just to get a new one? And then lie and blame the breeder...aweful

[Brooklynn]

Originally Posted by MyFairLacy

But most buyers get very attached to their dogs. Even if they've only had them for 3 months or so, they probably already love them and consider them their babies. They don't just want to give their baby back.

I think that if a puppy has a defect or health problem covered by the health guarantee, the breeder should pay the vet bills UP TO the amount of the purchase price. So for ex. if the puppy cost $1500 and has a defect that cost $800 in vet bills, the breeder would pay for that $800. But if that $1500 puppy had a $3000 vet bill, the breeder would just be obligated to return the $1500. Anything above that would be nice, but not necessary. I think it's good to give the option of taking the puppy back, but most people won't want to do that because they already love the dog.

I don't like the idea of a replacement puppy..if you already bought one defective dog from a breeder, why would you want another one?

As a breeder this is what I'd do....I'd do what Lacy is referring too or refund the money and take the puppy back.

Donna Bird
Brooklynn's Yorkshire Terriers

[Brooklynn]

Originally Posted by Dior'sMom

Wow! I would travel to u to get my next baby

Well I feel any reputable breeder would feel and do the same thing

P.S....You'd have to travel to Texas because I don't ship LOL

Donna Bird
Brooklynn's Yorkshire Terriers

[Brooklynn]

Originally Posted by MyFairLacy

That's so aweful! That poor puppy I admire the breeder for refunding the money just to get it back where it would be properly cared for. But those people make me so mad How can someone injure a dog and get rid of it just to get a new one? And then lie and blame the breeder...aweful

It was aweful! That's why I have a strict contract and am very very selective to where my puppies go...so far I've been very lucky to where my puppies have gone and I plan on keeping it that way!

Donna

[Dior'sMom]

Originally Posted by Brooklynn

Well I feel any reputable breeder would feel and do the same thing

P.S....You'd have to travel to Texas because I don't ship LOL

Donna Bird
Brooklynn's Yorkshire Terriers

I do not mind traveling for quality.

[Brooklynn]

Originally Posted by Dior'sMom

I do not mind traveling for quality.

As a show breeder, my objective is to have sound, healthy quality show dogs for myself and "if" there is a pet quality in the litter it should be just as healthy and sound as what I'd take in the ring.

Donna

[dudley1984]

[QUOTE=MyFairLacy;1848886]No..I'm not saying that. But many breeders give a one year guarantee against life-threatening congenital defects. I don't think that is enough. I want at least a one year guarantee against....

Well, until last month my guarantee was against "serious congenital defect." Then a customer showed up wanting money for patella surgery for an 8 month old dog that she admits started limping after a bad jump off the bed. I wrote a check and immediately changed my guarantee. My puppies get at least two through vet checkups before leaving my home, then the purchaser has another 48 hours to get their own checkup done. Any problems they can return the puppy immediately for full refund. After that it goes to the one year guarantee for life-threatening congenital defects (e.g.liver shunt). Sorry folks, but I don't want to leave myself open for abuse and arguments with customers who don't know the difference between disease and accident...

[Brooklynn]

[quote=dudley1984;1848977]

Originally Posted by MyFairLacy

No..I'm not saying that. But many breeders give a one year guarantee against life-threatening congenital defects. I don't think that is enough. I want at least a one year guarantee against....

Well, until last month my guarantee was against "serious congenital defect." Then a customer showed up wanting money for patella surgery for an 8 month old dog that she admits started limping after a bad jump off the bed. I wrote a check and immediately changed my guarantee. My puppies get at least two through vet checkups before leaving my home, then the purchaser has another 48 hours to get their own checkup done. Any problems they can return the puppy immediately for full refund. After that it goes to the one year guarantee for life-threatening congenital defects (e.g.liver shunt). Sorry folks, but I don't want to leave myself open for abuse and arguments with customers who don't know the difference between disease and accident...

That's why my contract says grade 4....in an injury for an 8 month old puppy it would be a grade lower and if it's a grade 4 at 8 months it wouldn't in my opinion be from an injury. But also, my contract says does not include LP from an injury...I hope that makes sense