Health Screening

[MyFairLacy]

Originally Posted by Mardelin

What I'm really excited about is the DNA testing that will determine the carriers. Bile Acids at this time will tell you if your dog has or doesn't have LS, but does not tell you if your dog is a carrier.

I'm really excited about this too. Liver shunt is so prevelant in yorkies...it would be wonderful to know 100% that a dog is not a carrier

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by Ellie May

I'm confused.

The only thing different about puppy food is high protein and high fat. Those shouldn't make the numbers go up because a high reading after a high fat meal is consider a problem... hmmmm

Just when you think you have it figured out......

Don't feel like the lone ranger......Dr. Tobias did extensive testing on LS and several breedings were done with no definitive outcome. She did a multitude of variables, with LS dogs and without LS dogs....

[littlewhip]

This is a very good and interesting thread great info for all

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by MyFairLacy

I'm really excited about this too. Liver shunt is so prevelant in yorkies...it would be wonderful to know 100% that a dog is not a carrier

Terri Shumsky, the champion of the yorkie breed, worked closely with Dr. Tobias....Dr. Tobias found yorkies had a 39% greater chance of LS. But, it is my understanding that Maltese are pretty much up there too.

I had a grooming client that had taken her dog in for a nueter.....her vet contacted her to inform her that he couldn't conduct it because his levels were off. He sent her to a Specialist to conduct further testing. All tests indicated LS. Surgery was performed and when they opened him up, no shunt.

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by Ellie May

I'm confused.

The only thing different about puppy food is high protein and high fat. Those shouldn't make the numbers go up because a high reading after a high fat meal is consider a problem... hmmmm

Just when you think you have it figured out......

Let me add the reason for this is because the Yorkie digestive track and ability of the liver to process is different.

[Ellie May]

Originally Posted by Mardelin

Let me add the reason for this is because the Yorkie digestive track and ability of the liver to process is different.

Interesting...

Ellie's postprandial bila acids are 106 right now. MVD has been almost ruled out through biopsy and it doesn't seem to be a shunt. Go figure. Actually an educated guess right now would be her pancreas having something to do with it. So bile acids are a crazy thing.

[MyFairLacy]

Originally Posted by Mardelin

I had a grooming client that had taken her dog in for a nueter.....her vet contacted her to inform her that he couldn't conduct it because his levels were off. He sent her to a Specialist to conduct further testing. All tests indicated LS. Surgery was performed and when they opened him up, no shunt.

I thought an ultrasound was normally done before surgery to confirm a shunt?

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by MyFairLacy

I thought an ultrasound was normally done before surgery to confirm a shunt?

And it was....all indicated shunt.....

So, as I was told by my vet....yorkies are an anomoly and sometimes the normal tests on them fail.

[Ladymom]

Originally Posted by Mardelin

Terri Shumsky, the champion of the yorkie breed, worked closely with Dr. Tobias....Dr. Tobias found yorkies had a 39% greater chance of LS. But, it is my understanding that Maltese are pretty much up there too.

I had a grooming client that had taken her dog in for a nueter.....her vet contacted her to inform her that he couldn't conduct it because his levels were off. He sent her to a Specialist to conduct further testing. All tests indicated LS. Surgery was performed and when they opened him up, no shunt.

I think that is one of the main reasons Dr. Center recommends a BAT before the puppy even goes home, to avoid over testing later on and misdiagnosing.

Yes, isn't here AKC proposal exciting? I think she is supposed to find out if she has been approved in March. We have a breeder on our Maltese forum who will be providing samples for her research.

Even if she isn't approved, she still intends on conducting her study. This is a letter one of our other members received from Dr. Center:

Hi Mary,

I am just putting the last touch on the AKC proposal; there were some questions they wanted addressed.. My collaborators are reading the final response and will be sent in within a few days. We will know within the next 2 months of funding. Looking good though. So, donations should wait until we hear from AKC. If they are not going to sponsor it, send money to Cornell: PSVA/MVD Research: Dr. Center

If they sponsor it: money should go to AKC as my understanding they match every dollar donated by a breed group.

Sharon


So, if her grant application gets approved Dr. Center suggests sending donations to the AKC Canine Health Foundation with instructions that the donation be added to the Maltese Donor Advised Fund. That way, any money that the AMA uses from that fund to support Dr. Center's research may be matched by the AKC CHF. If the AKC CHF does not approve her grant application then Dr. Center suggests sending the money directly to Cornell. The addresses for both organizations are:

The AKC Canine Health Foundation
PO Box 37941
Raleigh, NC 27627-7941
Link to Donation Form: http://www.akcchf.org/pdfs/donor_form.pdf

Cornell University College of Veterinary Medicine
PO Box 726
Ithaca, NY 14851

Please make checks payable to Cornell University and send with a note that your donation be applied to "PSVA/MVD Research: Dr. Center"

[Yorkieluv]

Originally Posted by MyFairLacy

I thought an ultrasound was normally done before surgery to confirm a shunt?

Most of the time, ultrasounds are inconclusive, meaning that the dog may very well have a shunt, but it is not seen on the u/s because of it's position, etc. U/S are more effective for looking at the size of the liver to see if it has atrophied and also for looking for bladder stones which are very common in dogs with shunts. Since most of the time, they don't see a shunt, the next step they recommend is a scintigraphy for finding the shunt....BUT it requires anesthesia...So, Dr. Center does a Protein C test first instead of the scintigraphy because it does not require anesthesia and is very simple...This test helps determine if there is a shunt or MVD...

[Yorkieluv]

Originally Posted by Mardelin

Terri Shumsky, the champion of the yorkie breed, worked closely with Dr. Tobias....Dr. Tobias found yorkies had a 39% greater chance of LS. But, it is my understanding that Maltese are pretty much up there too.

I had a grooming client that had taken her dog in for a nueter.....her vet contacted her to inform her that he couldn't conduct it because his levels were off. He sent her to a Specialist to conduct further testing. All tests indicated LS. Surgery was performed and when they opened him up, no shunt.

This is why I always tell people whose dogs are having liver shunt surgery to have the vets take a liver biopsy...Many, many dogs with AND without a visible shunt do have MVD, and the only way to know 100% is by having a liver biopsy done...

My yorkie has MVD, and he is a severe case...He is on a strict diet, supplements, lactulose in order for him to be healthy...If I miss even one day of lactulose or give him one thing he's not supposed to, he will seize...

[kosoma]

Originally Posted by mypreciouspups

. but all needles I believe should be done with a vet, not a breeder. I also got stung with a yorkie, that at 6 months I was told had all shots, (by breeder) other then rabies.. two months later she got parvo, the breeder called me an idiot. She was/is a huge show breeder in Canada..

It was my understanding, after attending a seminar conducted by a veterinary researcher at...(OSU or OU, don't remember which) that no vaccine can prevent a disease 100%. It prevents MOST of the time (and also can reduce the severity of the disease if it doesn't prevent it) but sometimes for varied reasons it just doesn't.

So the fact that a dog gets parvo doesn't in itself mean that the shot wasn't given. Of course, I don't know anything about your case in particular, just mentioning this because it seems many people mistakenly believe that vaccines will always prevent disease. They don't, just as they don't in humans.

[Mom2BabyNatalie]

Originally Posted by kosoma

It was my understanding, after attending a seminar conducted by a veterinary researcher at...(OSU or OU, don't remember which) that no vaccine can prevent a disease 100%. It prevents MOST of the time (and also can reduce the severity of the disease if it doesn't prevent it) but sometimes for varied reasons it just doesn't.

So the fact that a dog gets parvo doesn't in itself mean that the shot wasn't given. Of course, I don't know anything about your case in particular, just mentioning this because it seems many people mistakenly believe that vaccines will always prevent disease. They don't, just as they don't in humans.

Not only does the vaccination not prevent disease in 100% of cases.... but it can actually INITIATE in some cases, the very disease in the pup that we are trying to prevent.... so in essence, you can actually GIVE a pup parvo by giving him the vaccination to prevent it.... it's all a matter of how each pup's immune system handles the introduction of the virus into the body...

[kathylynch]

Originally Posted by lisatodd

ok....i am going to try and do this now but bare with me. there is so much information that i will try and keep short and sweet.

first....medical ck for brucellosis, joint problems, heart problems, seizures, temperament ( this is done by showing or going through akc good citizen test if you do not show)

a dog should never be breed if they are aggressive to people, excitable, fear biter, shy or submissive. this is also done by showing

both dam and sire should be utd on all vaccinations

pedigree research.... (this took me two years as well) see breeding is not just getting two dogs together, you really need to do all the reasearch)

find out how frequency they bred, how many champions did they produce, (remember, not all dogs will become champions but that is not a reason not to breed them, you are looking at health and temperament as well)

RECESSIVE GENES NEVER GO AWAY......
what reputable breeders do is research the pedigree, find out if there have been any genetic defects. What you are trying to do is to contain and lower the risk of the recessive gene coming up in your litter. THIS IS NEVER A GUARENTEE!!!!
BAD RECESSIVE GENES WILL MOST LIKELY NEVER SHOW ITS UGLY HEAD UNTIL LATER IN LIFE.......so the year guarentee is good but most health problems that are prone to certain dogs don't normally show up until later in life. but i will say if you have a sickly puppy and after the year warrenty is up, i can say, you probably have a genetic health issue. if you have a healthy puppy for a year, and later developes something, it was recessive and not known to the breeder no matter how many test, research was done.

bile acid test only states if the dog being tested has it, the dog can still be a carrier and it will never show up in the test. another reason for the pedigree research.

SHORT AND SWEET..... THIS IS WHAT I HAVE DONE,

BLOOD TEST
BILE ACID TEST FOR ME because they can still be a carrier but i will never know unless someone contact me down the line to advise me
JOINTS AND HIPS no ofa cert b/c this is bogus...they charge so much money just for the certificate and yorkies are not known to have hip problems.
UPT ON SHOTS
AKC GOOD CITIZEN TEST
PEDIGREE RESEARCH (like i said previously, two years)

so when you see these people come to yt and want to breed their dog.....this is why most of us get so upset because people just don'e realise if you do not do this correctly, you possible could cause a poor little dog pain and their parents and family.

i wanted to do this with my thoughts all together but i just said it off the top of my head. i am sure i have missed some points but i think you get the drift of my breeding program.

Lisa,
I think you did a wonderful job explaining yourself.
I have learned alot of things just through this post.
And also want to add to this I agree 100% of what you have said.
As a ethical breeder you should do all these things you have said.
and like you mentioned you just don't put two dogs together and
breed them you need to do your homework on the lines.
thank you for your post.
kathy

[Brooklynn]

Originally Posted by kathylynch

Lisa,
I think you did a wonderful job explaining yourself.
I have learned alot of things just through this post.
And also want to add to this I agree 100% of what you have said.
As a ethical breeder you should do all these things you have said.
and like you mentioned you just don't put two dogs together and
breed them you need to do your homework on the lines.
thank you for your post.
kathy

Ditto!