The Breeding Debate

[YorkieRose]

Debbi...guess what we get when we breed for "show" quality only??? We get pets too...no line produces all show potentials, if so the breeder is kennel blind. So if you strive for the best, you get nice ones to show and nice pets to place with Yorkie lovers.

A dog will produce three types of puppies, as a rule...better then himself, himself and less then himself (same with a bitch) Sooooo, if you use average or poor pet quality for breeding, what do you get most of the time...not fair to the breed..IMO.

The only reason to breed, is to breed to the standard as closely as humanly possible. Improve with each litter...
If I study the piano for 5,10 yrs, do I want my first song to sound the same as the last one..I hope not...

[Ladymom]

This is an excellent article on the difference between show quality and a pet from Foxstone Maltese:

http://www.foxstonemaltese.com/show_vs_pet.htm

[fannie]

Originally Posted by YorkieRose

Debbi...guess what we get when we breed for "show" quality only??? We get pets too...no line produces all show potentials, if so the breeder is kennel blind. So if you strive for the best, you get nice ones to show and nice pets to place with Yorkie lovers.

A dog will produce three types of puppies, as a rule...better then himself, himself and less then himself (same with a bitch) Sooooo, if you use average or poor pet quality for breeding, what do you get most of the time...not fair to the breed..IMO.

The only reason to breed, is to breed to the standard as closely as humanly possible. Improve with each litter...
If I study the piano for 5,10 yrs, do I want my first song to sound the same as the last one..I hope not...

I agree.

And Tami... you shoulda married a carpenter!

[kl1977]

mypreciouspups,kosoma,YorkieRose, I think you made some great eye opening points for people who have open minds. Thank You very much.

[Brooklynn]

As a poster said you can bring two great representations of the breed together and get pet quality...My champion bitch who was #1 yorkie bitch in breed in the US and #6 breed in 2005 and my champion sire who is in my avator had a litter of two and one was 7.1 pounds a 7 months old "over" standard so now she's in a loving pet home but omg coat, topline and other good qualities but she's a pet. Now the other one is a female also but on the small side at just under 4 pounds at 7 months litter sisters OMG the difference in size LOL... but I'm holding on to her just to see if she'll get bigger and she has other good qualities for the show ring but if she doesn't make size she will also be put into a pet home. I breed to better the breed plain and simple! I'm making NO money in fact like someone said I'd have a penthouse by the water retired if I were making money! I love this breed and I hate to see where it's going health issues and all!!!!!! Health issues to me is the most important of all and then comes everything else!
Donna Bird
Brooklynn's Yorkshire Terriers

[kl1977]

Originally Posted by Brooklynn

As a poster said you can bring two great representations of the breed together and get pet quality...My champion bitch who was #1 yorkie bitch in breed in the US and #6 breed in 2005 and my champion sire who is in my avator had a litter of two and one was 7.1 pounds a 7 months old "over" standard so now she's in a loving pet home but omg coat, topline and other good qualities but she's a pet. Now the other one is a female also but on the small side at just under 4 pounds at 7 months litter sisters OMG the difference in size LOL... but I'm holding on to her just to see if she'll get bigger and she has other good qualities for the show ring but if she doesn't make size she will also be put into a pet home. I breed to better the breed plain and simple! I'm making NO money in fact like someone said I'd have a penthouse by the water retired if I were making money! I love this breed and I hate to see where it's going health issues and all!!!!!! Health issues to me is the most important of all and then comes everything else!
Donna Bird
Brooklynn's Yorkshire Terriers

What an amazing difference. I am curious to know if you (not just you but people in general) think the only people who should be breeders are people who show? I do want to breed as a hobby. I will only have one female. I know that some of you are going to think Im crazy. I have tried and tried to get these little guys out of my head. Ive tried to look at different breed but I cant let this go, very hard for me to explain how I feel. It something I want to do. I am going to say that I will do everything that I am suppose to do test wise with my female and make sure the male has been tested also. I am going to say that I want to do this because it is very hard to find the qualities that I personally like in a yorkie. But the more I read the more I question myself, should I do this? I am a person who is about doing the right thing by other people. Am I wrong in wanting to do this?

[mypreciouspups]

Originally Posted by kl1977

What an amazing difference. I am curious to know if you (not just you but people in general) think the only people who should be breeders are people who show? I do want to breed as a hobby. I will only have one female. I know that some of you are going to think Im crazy. I have tried and tried to get these little guys out of my head. Ive tried to look at different breed but I cant let this go, very hard for me to explain how I feel. It something I want to do. I am going to say that I will do everything that I am suppose to do test wise with my female and make sure the male has been tested also. I am going to say that I want to do this because it is very hard to find the qualities that I personally like in a yorkie. But the more I read the more I question myself, should I do this? I am a person who is about doing the right thing by other people. Am I wrong in wanting to do this?

Follow your dreams.. just do it right.. make sure your breeding healthy for starters.. if this is a dream and your young enough, try getting a mentor.. have integrity. That is a huge word in my books..
Ask lots of questions, I do not think you need to be a show breeder to produce good healthy baby's that you stand behind.. make sure you really really find a good breeder to get you going.. NOT one that is only caring about the fast buck selling an unlimited yorkie to breed, when they could care less... it is just a money money thing..
And If there were more mentors wanting to help newbies.. it would make things much easier at the same time. I am not talking yters on any of this, but in general.. Ask some of our show breeders how hard it was to get started with show quality... I am sure you would gets lots of heartache and stories.. You also must be willing to spend on the ones that will not be suitable to breed.. Then rehome to the right person, like I have had to do.. that is not easy...

pooh's mum

[kl1977]

I want to tell you what I am looking for in a female. I know the color that I like is not going to be the standard. I am looking for a 5-6.5lb (HEALTHY), I love the black and gold. I like smaller ears and a little shorter nose. I have found what I am looking for but 2500.00. For the most part she will be a pet, but I would like to breed her once a year. My husband will not let me spend that much, he is the bread winner. Am I going to find what I am looking at a better price. I need honest opinions please.

[mypreciouspups]

Originally Posted by kl1977

I want to tell you what I am looking for in a female. I know the color that I like is not going to be the standard. I am looking for a 5-6.5lb (HEALTHY), I love the black and gold. I like smaller ears and a little shorter nose. I have found what I am looking for but 2500.00. For the most part she will be a pet, but I would like to breed her once a year. My husband will not let me spend that much, he is the bread winner. Am I going to find what I am looking at a better price. I need honest opinions please.

I personally do not believe you will find what your looking for any less then your quote. If you cannot do this, then be happy to own a pet.. Breeding is not cheap like some make it out to be. But that is all I can say.
I got my last girl and she has cost me that much. The hard part was then dealing with the breeder who was being a bi-otch.. once I bought her then wanting more money for her papers.. I did get my papers but has taken months and months.. I also had to go another route..

pooh's mum

[Brooklynn]

I don't think you have to show to breed as long as you do it the right way and study pedigrees, find a good mentor and read and read and read and educate yourself but for me I wouldn't be breeding if I didn't show.
You will find it hard to find a show breeder to sell you a puppy for breeding if you are not showing JMHO. I will be honest here and tell you I won't sell any of my puppies to anyone that isn't going to show and even then I will be very picky as to what kind of show home they would go too. Reason being I've only been showing for 4 years and I will NOT risk the pedigrees my mentors have entrusted me with to a newcomer in showing or breeding nor without their permission especially since I do have a contract with my male and his breeder has first right of refusal on a breeding from his male. If you already know that the bitch is not within standard then why are you breeding her? Although I know and have stated very strongly coat color is the last thing I worry about but if you are new to breeding and know it's not within standard you shouldn't breed. You wanted honest opinions then I'm giving it...with that said breeding costs way more than what you'll pay for a good quality bitch. Do you know if this bitch has any health issues within it's lines? Have you studied this bitches pedigree? Just something for you to think about before breeding.
You asked LOL..

Donna Bird
Brooklynn's Yorkshire Terriers

[kl1977]

Originally Posted by Brooklynn

I don't think you have to show to breed as long as you do it the right way and study pedigrees, find a good mentor and read and read and read and educate yourself but for me I wouldn't be breeding if I didn't show.
You will find it hard to find a show breeder to sell you a puppy for breeding if you are not showing JMHO. I will be honest here and tell you I won't sell any of my puppies to anyone that isn't going to show and even then I will be very picky as to what kind of show home they would go too. Reason being I've only been showing for 4 years and I will NOT risk the pedigrees my mentors have entrusted me with to a newcomer in showing or breeding nor without their permission especially since I do have a contract with my male and his breeder has first right of refusal on a breeding from his male. If you already know that the bitch is not within standard then why are you breeding her? Although I know and have stated very strongly coat color is the last thing I worry about but if you are new to breeding and know it's not within standard you shouldn't breed. You wanted honest opinions then I'm giving it...with that said breeding costs way more than what you'll pay for a good quality bitch. Do you know if this bitch has any health issues within it's lines? Have you studied this bitches pedigree? Just something for you to think about before breeding.
You asked LOL..

Donna Bird
Brooklynn's Yorkshire Terriers

Exactly right ,I did ask. I want anyones opinion. I apprecite and respect opinions, as I have seen some people on her do not. I am here to learn, not to be a b**ch (although I can if need be lol) or pick a fight ot judge anyone. The breeder that I spoke with was actually going to show this female in March if she was not Pg, and she was black and gold, so I am confused. Am I making this more complicated than it should be?

[kl1977]

Sorry, My bad the female says blue and tan and the male was gonna be black and tan.

[Brooklynn]

Originally Posted by kl1977

Sorry, My bad the female says blue and tan and the male was gonna be black and tan.

Some breeders use a black dog to keep color. Most would use a black bitch. But again you are new to the idea of breeding and not experienced. I do believe if a black bitch was used in a breeding program and that was her only issue I wouldn't have a problem. But when I say no other issues that means, NO HEALTH issue first and then she has no more than 2 other faults that would be a rule of thumb. I however, would love to breed everything as close to the standard as possible.
I try to stay within standard as close as I can. Like I said on another thread there is no perfect breed but if you study pedigrees and get with a good mentor that always helps.

[Brooklynn]

Originally Posted by kl1977

Exactly right ,I did ask. I want anyones opinion. I apprecite and respect opinions, as I have seen some people on her do not. I am here to learn, not to be a b**ch (although I can if need be lol) or pick a fight ot judge anyone. The breeder that I spoke with was actually going to show this female in March if she was not Pg, and she was black and gold, so I am confused. Am I making this more complicated than it should be?

You're not making it complicated at all...you are asking questions as everyone who thinks they want to breed should do! If you ask for opinions then accept the ones you get and I'm proud of you for not taking offense to mine LOL! When asked I will give it! If those that ask aren't really wanting them and take them constructively shouldn't ask for them LOL! Anyway I hope you learn and educate yourself before jumping in feet first and listen! Breeding can be heartbreaking (knock on wood). Are you prepared to lose your female if something went wrong? Or a puppy dies? Or a c-section is required? (often expensive). Those are what needs to be considered before breeding as well...
Donna Bird
Brooklynn's Yorkshire Terriers

[kl1977]

Ya know at this point Im almost scared to purchase a puppy from anyone. The breeder that I last spoke to has amazing yorkies in my eyes, She does show, so she says. But when I told her that I wanted to breed, she gave me a price 2500.00 with breeding rights and 1200.00 for a pet depending on the pedigree, no questions asks and said, Let me know. I want to be treated as I would treat someone else and Im not so sure this is going to happen. First and foremost I want a healthy yorkie.