Reputable Parti Breeders?

[GreenwoodBiewer]

Originally Posted by JeanieK

I'd like to see them. I believe a yorkie by any other name is still a yorkie. Or you can take Yorkie out of the name but you can 't take the dog out of the breed.

Thanks for asking.. here is a photo of Irish Rose and Indee, one of the girls and one of the boys and a photo of some of the past and future "moms" helping out with this current litter ..

-Diana

[phfgkl]

Originally Posted by JeanieK

Yes that is what we all thought, but Pruett has a new story. apparently she has a mixed breed that she is trying to pass off as a Biewer.

Excuse me, I have one of Gayles babies, and let me tell you what, she's the most beautiful BIEWER(AND YES, I SAID BIEWER AS THAT'S WHAT SHE IS A BIEWER TERRIER) she's NOT trying to pass off a mixed breed as a biewer. All I can see from you is jealousy, becuase the biewers are so much cuter(I think anyway) than the overpriced partis. The biewers are a breed of their own, they are NOT a parti, a parti(as all of you say) are a yorkie that is rare(LOL) that is way over priced.

[Pruett]

Originally Posted by reneernc

...wondering what Gertrude Biewer's thoughts are...... From what I gather in this thread the pedigrees of her yorkies are being called into question, is that correct? If so, has she had an opportunity to defend her reputation?

No one is questioning The Biewer's Yorkies. As a matter of fact, Mrs. Biewer told us of many breeders taking shortcuts.

[phfgkl]

Originally Posted by JeanieK

Oh you are soooooooooooo wrong. Many breeds have become separate breeds due to a color variation. When you watch the big dog shows they will tell you this breed was developed from that breed etc. some breeds became a separate breed because the ers were down instead of up.

Years ago they allowed that.

I believe that your particular line of biewer might have a different makeup from other biewers, but if that is true than it is because someone mixed in a different breed. therefore you have a mixed breed dog.

Before you can go off and start a different breed, you have to know when were and how they were developed.

Every dog in the world was bred with something to get the breed they are now, except for a maltese. I'm sorry, but, I think the partis and biewers most likely had maltese in them and other dogs. Don't think that it was because of a piebald gene, or they would have shown up long ago. Do you think that all breeders are reputable and keep an eye on their bitches 24/7 when they're in heat? I'm telling you, Gayle is very intelligent, she has done plenty of studying on the breed, she is trying to get her dogs as perfect as possible, and believe me, I think she's there. I've never seen such beautiful babies as what she has right now, and if I was able too, i would take another one of hers in a heartbeat. I think with you, it sounds like jealousy

[phfgkl]

Originally Posted by JeanieK

I believe that some Biewers are testing different than others, I also believe that some partis will test different than others. There are some people out there that are mxing dogs and calling them parti colored torkies, nd I am guessing the smae thing happened to the Biewers.

So our best guess is to go with what we know until someone can come up with new facts.

and what we know is that the breed started out as purebred yorkies.

If your dog is a yorkie, then why to me, does it NOT look like a yorkie(even though it's white), it doesn't look like a purebred yorkie to me

[BamaFan121s]

Originally Posted by Pruett

They are suppose to be using the standard that Mrs. Biewer signed for us, which is almost identical to ours.

The "standard signed by Mrs. Biewer" is something I see brought up quite a bit, yet I don't understand how it adds to anyone's credibility?

"ALMOST identical?" If is is not identical to the one the Biewer Terrier advocates are using, why does it matter? That would make it incorrect per BTCA standards, correct? Essentially nothing more than an outdated standard? Why would you expect any organization to be using an outdated standard?

The Biewers proclaimed that their dogs were of YT decent, correct? I'm assuming that the standard Mrs. Biewer wrote was not for a dog referred to as a Biewer Terrier that is composed of multiple breeders, as the claim goes, but for the dogs she helped to introduce that were 'pure Yorkie?' Or was she lying/incorrect about what they introduced?

Does she support the breeding of Biewer Terriers and the claim that they are not pure Yorkie?

I guess in short is, why would anything written and signed, by Mrs. Biewer, a founder of the "breed" grant any credibility to an organization not promoting what the breed founders introduced?

[BamaFan121s]

Originally Posted by 4lilyorks

I understand how purebreds come about. So can you tell me what the Biewer Terrier is made up of? Are all the lines being registered of the same mix of breeds?

This is something I have been curious about to. If the Biewer Terriers are not purebred, but a combination of other breeds, as the claim goes, then what is the specific combination of breeds that is acceptable in order to qualify as a Biewer Terrier? How is it determined if a dog is a Biewer Terrier or any other randomly mixed breed dog? Are all the dogs being referred to as BT's composed of the same breeds? What are they? Is there a specific ratio of breed to breed required in order for a dog to be considered a BT?

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by GreenwoodBiewer

Thanks for asking.. here is a photo of Irish Rose and Indee, one of the girls and one of the boys and a photo of some of the past and future "moms" helping out with this current litter ..

-Diana

OMG how cute is that. The one on the left with her butt to the camera looks like my Harlie. Congratulations.

[livingdustmops]

Originally Posted by phfgkl

Every dog in the world was bred with something to get the breed they are now, except for a maltese.

You have said this before but different websites say they don't know? I think it is interesting that on the AKC website the Maltese can have different colors.

American Kennel Club - Breed Colors and Markings

house of maltese; breed originated 8,000 years ago; The Kennel Club; Maltese dog";

About the Maltese Breed -- Maltese History and Origin

Maltese (dog) Origin

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maltese_(dog)

The Maltese is thought to have been descended from a Spitz type dog found among the Swiss Lake dwellers and bred down to obtain its small size. Although there is also some evidence that the breed originated in Asia and is related to the Tibetan Terrier, the exact origin is unknown [6]. Maltese are generally associated with the island of Malta in the Mediterranean Sea. The dogs probably made their way to Europe through the Middle East with the migration of nomadic tribes. Some writers believe these proto-Maltese were used for rodent control and pig herding. [7][8] before the appearance of the breed gained paramount importance. The Isle of Malta (or Melitae as it was then known) was a geographic center of early trade, and explorers undoubtedly found ancestors of the tiny, white dogs left there as barter for necessities and supplies. The dogs were favored by the wealthy and royalty alike and were bred over time to specifically be a companion animal. In fact, the Maltese were so favored by the Roman emperors, they chose to breed them to be pure white - something they considered a 'sacred color'. Before then, there were other light colors that Maltese come in - still seen again at the puppy stage, normally.

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by phfgkl

Excuse me, I have one of Gayles babies, and let me tell you what, she's the most beautiful BIEWER(AND YES, I SAID BIEWER AS THAT'S WHAT SHE IS A BIEWER TERRIER) she's NOT trying to pass off a mixed breed as a biewer. All I can see from you is jealousy, becuase the biewers are so much cuter(I think anyway) than the overpriced partis. The biewers are a breed of their own, they are NOT a parti, a parti(as all of you say) are a yorkie that is rare(LOL) that is way over priced.

yes the biewers are a breed of their own, because the Biewer efamily developed them from T wo pure bred yorkshire terriers. and no matter what you or Gayle say. that fact will no changge. so call them what you want. it makes no difference.

Gayle is the one that is claiming they are not yorkshires, she has yet to explain what they are. so if you have a problem with the fact that they are not purebreds, take it up with her.

You cannot just take a breed and change the name and claim that you have a different breed. Yopu have to know where it came from, which dog were used to create this new breed, when was it created?

If you can ot answer those questions and prove it, then you have Biewer yorkshire terrier a la pon pon.


What on earth do I have to be jealous about.

The Biewer is a beautiful dog, and if i wanted one, i would have one. But for me a dog that is not AKC registered is just a dog. My partis are registered as yorkshire terriers. There is such a variety of looks, some being marked very much like the Biewer. Some like more white, some like more black. I like them all.

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by Pruett

No one is questioning The Biewer's Yorkies. As a matter of fact, Mrs. Biewer told us of many breeders taking shortcuts.

so are you sayhing that YOUR particular yorkies are from those that took sortcuts and that i why they are not yorkies?

If that is what you are saying, then what are they. where did they come from, what dogs were used to produce them? If that is the case, i don't see them as any different than any other designer dog.

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by phfgkl

Every dog in the world was bred with something to get the breed they are now, except for a maltese. I'm sorry, but, I think the partis and biewers most likely had maltese in them and other dogs. Don't think that it was because of a piebald gene, or they would have shown up long ago. Do you think that all breeders are reputable and keep an eye on their bitches 24/7 when they're in heat? I'm telling you, Gayle is very intelligent, she has done plenty of studying on the breed, she is trying to get her dogs as perfect as possible, and believe me, I think she's there. I've never seen such beautiful babies as what she has right now, and if I was able too, i would take another one of hers in a heartbeat. I think with you, it sounds like jealousy

Yes I agree. so what is you point?

Even the Maltese started out as a wolf. it is very likely thast the maltese is part of the yorkshire terrier makeup because. Way back before they were called yorkshire terriers they were all registered as Broken haired Scotch and Yorkshire terriers.

In 1863, a Mr Mandeville, a maltese breeder, showed a dog named Prince. Prince had been registered as both a Broken-haired Scotch and a Yorkshire terrier.

I'm sure that I wouild agree that Gayle has beautiful dogs. But without knowing what they are or when, who, and hnow theyf were developed. They are just like any other mixed breed dog.

Not questioning Gayles intelligence. Her breeding ethics or anything else about her. Just wondering why she won't tell us more about where her dogs came from.

And why would i be jealous? If I wanted a biewer, I would buy one. But I want to know what my dogs are and where they came from. without that history it is just another beautiful dog.

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by phfgkl

If your dog is a yorkie, then why to me, does it NOT look like a yorkie(even though it's white), it doesn't look like a purebred yorkie to me

And you have a right to think that. That proves nothing except that you don't think they look like yorkies.

[EnchantedToi]

Originally Posted by BamaFan121s

This is something I have been curious about to. If the Biewer Terriers are not purebred, but a combination of other breeds, as the claim goes, then what is the specific combination of breeds that is acceptable in order to qualify as a Biewer Terrier? How is it determined if a dog is a Biewer Terrier or any other randomly mixed breed dog? Are all the dogs being referred to as BT's composed of the same breeds? What are they? Is there a specific ratio of breed to breed required in order for a dog to be considered a BT?

Sue posted her results and this is the first time I have seen any actual documentation. Which we all appreciate.
I would be interested in seeing other results posted. In a past post a BTCA member mentioned her results but didnt post any documents. Here's a link to that post. It seems her results were Yorkshire Terrier & Maltese

http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/2041325-post77.html

So good question would be.. what other breeds have shown up with the Mars testing.

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by BamaFan121s

The "standard signed by Mrs. Biewer" is something I see brought up quite a bit, yet I don't understand how it adds to anyone's credibility?

"ALMOST identical?" If is is not identical to the one the Biewer Terrier advocates are using, why does it matter? That would make it incorrect per BTCA standards, correct? Essentially nothing more than an outdated standard? Why would you expect any organization to be using an outdated standard?

The Biewers proclaimed that their dogs were of YT decent, correct? I'm assuming that the standard Mrs. Biewer wrote was not for a dog referred to as a Biewer Terrier that is composed of multiple breeders, as the claim goes, but for the dogs she helped to introduce that were 'pure Yorkie?' Or was she lying/incorrect about what they introduced?

Does she support the breeding of Biewer Terriers and the claim that they are not pure Yorkie?

I guess in short is, why would anything written and signed, by Mrs. Biewer, a founder of the "breed" grant any credibility to an organization not promoting what the breed founders introduced?

Good Point

Has anyone asked her to endorse the "Biewer Terrier" as a separate breed?