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-   -   Reputable Parti Breeders? (https://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/breeder-talk/109621-reputable-parti-breeders.html)

EnchantedToi 12-14-2008 08:52 PM
Are you saying that no members of the BTCA are breeding Yorkies to Biewers?



Quote:
Originally Posted by Pruett (Post 2374396)
We dropped the Yorkshire from the name because we knew they weren't Yorkies, not because someone told us to drop it. We are trying to get our breed recognized as a distinct breed of its own and not a Yorkshire Terrier.

We have proven the breed is a distinctly separate breed and anyone still breeding Yorkies with the Biewers, after being presented the facts is doing no more than creating Yorkie mixes. Dog hybrid - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Biewer Terrier is a DNA proven purebred. The piebald gene in the Biewer was created through a gene crossover not a mutant gene.

Pruett 12-15-2008 12:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by EnchantedToi (Post 2375142)
Are you saying that no members of the BTCA are breeding Yorkies to Biewers?
As you are well aware Jan, people that are not wanting to follow the rules and ethics of the BTCA, Inc. are leaving and joining another club.

Does the BBCI still have members that are breeding known lines that have produced L.S. and selling them as breeders?

Pinehaven 12-15-2008 04:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pruett (Post 2374396)
The Biewer Terrier is a DNA proven purebred. The piebald gene in the Biewer was created through a gene crossover not a mutant gene.

Could you explain what you mean by "a gene crossover"? I haven't heard that term before.

Pruett 12-15-2008 07:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinehaven (Post 2375336)
Could you explain what you mean by "a gene crossover"? I haven't heard that term before.
It is when another breed has been used in the development of a breed.
Those genes from the new breed are what's present in the new breed to create certain traits.

In our case the sp, responsible for the black and white spotting across the back, si, patterned coloring of 4 white legs, chest, belly, and tip of the tail, sw, dogs going almost all white.

So you can see why the Yorkie people are upset about the Parti's, knowing that another breed was in involved in its coloring.

I myself believe that some, not all, of the parti's now being produced have Biewer in them, which is upsetting to our breed.

There is an easy end to the controversy, and that is the testing of dogs.

Pruett 12-15-2008 07:12 AM
I have a question. If you breed your Yorkie to a Parti carrier, do you get a Parti colored Yorkie from that breeding?

I have seen some ads that say that the parent was a Parti carrier and both parents looked like Yorkies to me.

TammyJM 12-15-2008 07:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pruett (Post 2375507)
I have a question. If you breed your Yorkie to a Parti carrier, do you get a Parti colored Yorkie from that breeding?

I have seen some ads that say that the parent was a Parti carrier and both parents looked like Yorkies to me.
You could get a parti colored Yorkie if both parents are carriers or one parent is a parti and the other parent is a carrier. So, yes, two parents that are traditional colors can produce a tri-colored puppy....if they carry the gene.

Tammy

TammyJM 12-15-2008 07:37 AM
2 Attachment(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by TammyJM (Post 2375535)
You could get a parti colored Yorkie if both parents are carriers or one parent is a parti and the other parent is a carrier. So, yes, two parents that are traditional colors can produce a tri-colored puppy....if they carry the gene.

Tammy
Here's an example of a carrier (my Huckleberry).

Pruett 12-15-2008 07:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TammyJM (Post 2375535)
You could get a parti colored Yorkie if both parents are carriers or one parent is a parti and the other parent is a carrier. So, yes, two parents that are traditional colors can produce a tri-colored puppy....if they carry the gene.

Tammy
That's interesting, because if breed two what the Germans call splitters (carriers) together you don't get a Biewer. You don't even get all Biewer's when you breed a full Biewer to a splitter.

phfgkl 12-15-2008 08:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pruett (Post 2375579)
That's interesting, because if breed two what the Germans call splitters (carriers) together you don't get a Biewer. You don't even get all Biewer's when you breed a full Biewer to a splitter.
:thumbup::thumbup:
Gayle is the best of the best when it comes to breeding biewers(in my book), she knows what she's talking about!

sierrapups 12-15-2008 09:19 AM
Gayle has the experience and the knowledge of years of breeding that have been highly valuable in the development of the Biewer in the US. I have never met anyone that can retain so much information.
Working with the scientific community, the Biewer has been proven to be its own breed.

phfgkl 12-15-2008 09:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sierrapups (Post 2375731)
Gayle has the experience and the knowledge of years of breeding that have been highly valuable in the development of the Biewer in the US. I have never met anyone that can retain so much information.
Working with the scientific community, the Biewer has been proven to be its own breed.
:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

sierrapups 12-15-2008 09:49 AM
Jan, would you mind sharing some information on the litters you have had with us? The more input we can get the better off this breed will be.

TeahsPet 12-15-2008 10:07 AM
When did the BTCA stop breeding to splitters? I know when I was researching clubs (less than a year ago) the BTCA not only condoned but promoted the use of splitters in their breeding program. This is an interesting turn of events.

Thank you Jaxx for posting the link to Colorful Yorkies...contains good information. :)

Pruett 12-15-2008 10:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by phfgkl (Post 2375692)
:thumbup::thumbup:
Gayle is the best of the best when it comes to breeding biewers(in my book), she knows what she's talking about!
Thank you and thank you Myrna.

Actullay Myrna and Ilona made me do it. :)

Pruett 12-15-2008 10:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TeahsPet (Post 2375801)
When did the BTCA stop breeding to splitters? I know when I was researching clubs (less than a year ago) the BTCA not only condoned but promoted the use of splitters in their breeding program. This is an interesting turn of events.

Thank you Jaxx for posting the link to Colorful Yorkies...contains good information. :)
To begin with, unless you are a member of the BTCA, Inc., you would not know the extent of the research we have been involved in.

When we first got our dogs from Germany every breeder said that it was important to breed Yorkies back into the lines. A couple of us experimented with this theory and know first hand the results of such breedings. Because of this we are better able to understand why some litters born to Biewer to Biewer breedings have turned out the way they have.

We contacted Mars Veterinary in Feb of 2007 and were not able to begin testing until Sept. Once it was verified that we had a truly separate breed from the Yorkshire Terrier we called a stop to adding Yorkies back in.

If they had tested out to be Yorkies then there would have been no reason to stop breeding to Yorkies, because after all, that's what they were, right?

Now doesn't the bbci claim that they are a Yorkshire Terrier with a mutant piebald gene? If that is the case then can you explain what the difference is between what you have and the what the Parti breeders have?

EmrldShdwQueen 12-15-2008 11:01 AM
Is it true (not sure if I heard this from a reliable source) that if and when the Biewer is recognized as a separate breed into a large club (such as AKC) that pedigrees have to contain no Yorkshire Terriers for at least 3 generations on both sides?

Pruett 12-15-2008 03:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by EmrldShdwQueen (Post 2375865)
Is it true (not sure if I heard this from a reliable source) that if and when the Biewer is recognized as a separate breed into a large club (such as AKC) that pedigrees have to contain no Yorkshire Terriers for at least 3 generations on both sides?
I believe you are right. I also know that AKC will not accept any foreign registry other than the approved ones on their site and not one of the registries that are registering the Biewers now are listed. Anyone still registering in Germany should start looking for an accepted registry in America to register their Biewers with.

EmrldShdwQueen 12-15-2008 04:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pruett (Post 2376262)
I believe you are right. I also know that AKC will not accept any foreign registry other than the approved ones on their site and not one of the registries that are registering the Biewers now are listed. Anyone still registering in Germany should start looking for an accepted registry in America to register their Biewers with.
Which do you recommend? Mine are IBC registered so far, which can be transferred to the American registries I assume. When I first started doing research I was told over and over again that the only acceptable Biewer registration was IBC. I know a lot has changed since then. Thanks for all this info, I have been keeping up and it is extremely helpful.

I am glad I decided on the Biewers instead of Parti Yorkshires, although there are some wonderful Parti breeders on here. I feel uncomfortable breeding a line that cannot be shown although I do admire the Partis that are responsibly bred. Biewers just worked better for my preference since they are considered a completely different breed.

Pinehaven 12-15-2008 04:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pruett (Post 2375499)
So you can see why the Yorkie people are upset about the Parti's, knowing that another breed was in involved in its coloring.

I myself believe that some, not all, of the parti's now being produced have Biewer in them, which is upsetting to our breed.

There is an easy end to the controversy, and that is the testing of dogs.

Most of the Parti lines that I've researched including the Nikko's line, are tracing back to one dog. I thought I had my own outcross line but he also traces back - 12 generations? - to this dog born almost 50 years ago
(1959). If the parti gene can be passed on for 50 years, why couldn't the parti gene have been past on for 50, 60 or 70 years prior to that, introduced by the unpapered, non purebred dogs who began this breed?

According to the website, the Mars test is not to be used for testing purebred dogs ... why? Does it give off false readings when you test a purebred? Did you also test Yorkshire terriers when you tested your Biewers to see how the results compared?

Breny 12-15-2008 05:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by EmrldShdwQueen (Post 2376314)
Which do you recommend? Mine are IBC registered so far, which can be transferred to the American registries I assume. When I first started doing research I was told over and over again that the only acceptable Biewer registration was IBC. I know a lot has changed since then. Thanks for all this info, I have been keeping up and it is extremely helpful.
I too am very interested in what American Registry is recommended. I also, in my search, was told to go IBC. My girl is IBC. I plan to breed Biewer to Biewer.

I guess I need to know what the best American Registry is? And what most everyone recommends?

Pinehaven 12-15-2008 05:06 PM
4 Attachment(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pruett (Post 2375507)
I have a question. If you breed your Yorkie to a Parti carrier, do you get a Parti colored Yorkie from that breeding?

I have seen some ads that say that the parent was a Parti carrier and both parents looked like Yorkies to me.
Here are a few of my parti carriers .... their sire's are all parti's so we know they are carriers but just by looking at them, they look like a traditional yorkie.

The parti's lines we have today are a result of a surprise parti being born to two traditional parents (parents who both carried the recessive parti gene).

So yes, it's possible to breed a parti carrier yorkie to a traditional yorkie and have a parti colored pup, if the traditional yorkie was also carrying the recessive parti gene.

Pinehaven 12-15-2008 05:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TammyJM (Post 2375543)
Here's an example of a carrier (my Huckleberry).
Tammy, Huck is looking mighty good. He's growing up so fast! Can't wait till you make some little Huckleberry Livi puppies!

mkbartz 12-15-2008 05:48 PM
So what exactly are "parti yorkies"? From what I have seen, they are REALLY lightly coloured. I am going to guess that you can't show them? Due they carry any genetic issues?

kpstoybox 12-15-2008 06:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Breny (Post 2376396)
I too am very interested in what American Registry is recommended. I also, in my search, was told to go IBC. My girl is IBC. I plan to breed Biewer to Biewer.

I guess I need to know what the best American Registry is? And what most everyone recommends?
Well, Brenda, it's simple really. The answer to that question can only be answered by you. Do you own a Biewer, a Biewer Terrier, or a Biewer Yorkshire Terrier A La Pom Pon?

If you can answer that question...then you most likely will know which American club to register your pups with. :D

All kidding aside...all three of mine are registered in Germany (where the breed originated) as Biewer Yorkshire Terrier A La Pom Pon's. So for now, that is how I plan to register what few litter's I may have in the future. I have plans to better research the American clubs and pick the one that is better suited to my beliefs and ethics, so I can start dual registering my future pups.

BamaFan121s 12-15-2008 06:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pruett (Post 2374396)
We dropped the Yorkshire from the name because we knew they weren't Yorkies, not because someone told us to drop it. We are trying to get our breed recognized as a distinct breed of its own and not a Yorkshire Terrier.

We have proven the breed is a distinctly separate breed and anyone still breeding Yorkies with the Biewers, after being presented the facts is doing no more than creating Yorkie mixes. Dog hybrid - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Biewer Terrier is a DNA proven purebred. The piebald gene in the Biewer was created through a gene crossover not a mutant gene.
So essentially then, wouldn't that make all Biewers (or at least those tested) 'mixes' themselves? If they are a result of other breeds being introduced, and not having derived from standard Yorkies as has always been claimed...until recently...by some...?

kpstoybox 12-15-2008 06:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mkbartz (Post 2376458)
So what exactly are "parti yorkies"? From what I have seen, they are REALLY lightly coloured. I am going to guess that you can't show them? Due they carry any genetic issues?
A parti yorkie is simply a tri (black/white/tan) Yorkshire Terrier that is considered a purebred and is allowed AKC registration.
A year ago...the Biewer was also considered a tri yorkie that originated in Germany. However there are some in the breed who now believe the Biewer to be a new breed that was produced from mixing breeds.

Now that I own both a Biewer and a Parti Yorkie...I can see the many difference's in the breeds. I truly can.

As far as "genetic issue's"? From my understanding...neither of these parti varieties produce anymore health issue's then the traditional yorkshire breed itself. I have not heard of any color related defects in either breed.

phfgkl 12-15-2008 06:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BamaFan121s (Post 2376537)
So essentially then, wouldn't that make all Biewers (or at least those tested) 'mixes' themselves? If they are a result of other breeds being introduced, and not having derived from standard Yorkies as has always been claimed...until recently...by some...?
Every dog is mixed with something, except a maltese!

Pruett 12-15-2008 07:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BamaFan121s (Post 2376537)
So essentially then, wouldn't that make all Biewers (or at least those tested) 'mixes' themselves? If they are a result of other breeds being introduced, and not having derived from standard Yorkies as has always been claimed...until recently...by some...?
No that wouldn't make all Biewers mixes. As with almost every breed on Earth, they were a combination of purebreds. They are now a distinct breed of their own, and considered a purebred.

The reason Mars says it does not test for purebreds is because of legal issues. How do you think they are able to test the heritage of dogs if they didn't have the markers of purebreds? And, yes we had Yorkies tested and they came back Yorkies.

So my question to you Bama is if you have purebred Biewers as your president told someone the other day, why are you breeding Yorkies back?

BamaFan121s 12-15-2008 08:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pruett (Post 2376653)
No that wouldn't make all Biewers mixes. As with almost every breed on Earth, they were a combination of purebreds. They are now a distinct breed of their own, and considered a purebred.
But then they all derived from what most would consider "mixes," right? A combination of various breeds that other have/are working towards having recognized as a breed. And would have been considered so until their fairly recent recognition as a 'breed' by certain organizations? Just trying to understand the logic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pruett (Post 2376653)
So my question to you Bama is if you have purebred Biewers as your president told someone the other day, why are you breeding Yorkies back?
My president? :confused: Who would that be? Bush? Obama? Because those are the only presidents I have, not being a member of any breed clubs myself. Not really sure what you mean by "why are you breeding Yorkies back"...lol, I'm not breeding anything. :p

Pruett 12-16-2008 07:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BamaFan121s (Post 2376695)
But then they all derived from what most would consider "mixes," right? A combination of various breeds that other have/are working towards having recognized as a breed. And would have been considered so until their fairly recent recognition as a 'breed' by certain organizations? Just trying to understand the logic.



My president? :confused: Who would that be? Bush? Obama? Because those are the only presidents I have, not being a member of any breed clubs myself. Not really sure what you mean by "why are you breeding Yorkies back"...lol, I'm not breeding anything. :p
Sorry Bama, I got you confused with a breeder that might know something about breeding Biewers and the genetics of dogs. My apologies.


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