OB
 

Does a dog have to be purebred to go in OB?..or an AKC breed...

I'm writing this in all sincerity, not trying to bash, just trying to understand -

I feel, there are double standards going on with in the YTCA when it comes to off standard colors. Up until a few months ago, it was OK for black and tan, black and gold and blue and gold to show (even though blue and tan has always been the adult standard), many of those off colored dogs are now champions. These off colored black/gold dogs still seemed to be accepted and as we've heard in this thread, these dogs are still being used in reputable breeding programs to "enhance" and improve breeding/show dogs coat colors.

Also, YTCA didn't put an age limit as to when a black coated dog had to turn blue by. That can leave the door open for black coats to continue showing and becoming champions even though they are not and never will be the standard color of blue - they are the off color black yorkie.

We've heard over and over in previous threads that parti, chocolate, and golden yorkies should be s/n and placed in pet homes because of their "off color", yet reputable breeders are still using the "off color" black/gold, black/tan and blue/gold yorkies in their breeding programs?
I just feel that all off colors should be treated equally but unfortunately there does seem to be a prejudice against only some of the off colors.

My opinion, anyone who's breeding yorkies with black coats, and gold points, should be held in the same category as those who breed parti, golden and chocolate.

I'm sure I'll get an ear full and that wasn't my intention, I'd just like others to see my point.

I'd also like to get some feedback to this question that was never really answered satisfactorily:

Why are off colored black coated and golden pointed yorkies accepted while the other off colors are not?

Because they are still being used to acheive a dog that does meet the required standards. The darker colored Yorkies are implemented in an attempt to add to a line and enhance the color, but with the end goal still being to achieve the standard blue/gold.
That is not what the off-colors are being used for--they are being bred to produce more off-color dogs, not standard blue/gold.

As far as why are they still being allowed to show...I don't have an answer for you on that one. But I DO understand and get your point there...really.

I don't get what you are looking for and what you mean by "satisfactorily.":confused: The question has been answered...Was the answer unclear? Was it not the one you were looking for? Not the information you are looking for? What more information do you need for it to be "answered satisfactorily." Please don't misunderstand my asking that...I think maybe we are just not on the same page in regards to each others train of thought here...:)

And again, I really DO understand and respect your points and appreciate the fact that you've taken the time to discuss and try to understand those of others.

As far as being allowed to show....here is the answer....we can take anything into the ring......you can take a Biewer, Parti, Chocolate, etc. It's up to the judge to determine whether they are worthy or even be in the ring. Each breeder does what they feel is correct. But, it is up to us to take the best of the best into the ring. Another thing, what is acceptable or favored varies from region to region and judge to judge.

As far as an age limit impossed...well you'd have to understand that color clearing and changing varies with each individual line....There are some that the gold clears at a very young age, these are the ones that most likely go light in the blue. There are others that the gold doesn't clear until the age of 2. One must know their lines.

And you are right some blacks are kept in a breeding program to retain the color. After all the blue is a diluting gene.

They are hindering the parti breeders because they know that it will be very difficult to start a breed club of our own without their blessing.

These parti coloreds are yorkies and denying that fact is not going to change it. I don't care what they want to call them, a rose by any other name is still a rose. The color is part of the genetic make up, that cannot be changed.

Being passionate about the breed and keeping the standards the same is fine, but what would it hurt to put them into a separate class.

As has been reiterated on here over and over again that the breed is being "ruined", then it just seems to me that it would behove the YTCA to accept these other colors and set standards for them in order to retain their control.

Disallowing them is not going to stop people from breeding them.

Well, it is. Everyday. By unethical breeders, byb's, millers, who don't care about the end result of their breedings, just about their money they get from it. By a wide range of people....people ill breeding the standard color and people breeding off-colors alike. People who don't look ahead, research, have any goals other than the immediate ca$h they will recieve from the one litter they are focusing on and how they can make it stand out and seem 'different' from all the others. That comment shouldn't *always* be taken so personally.

Of course it's difficult to start a breed club....but, it can be done. It was difficult for the YTCA, but they did it. It's also difficult for regional club to get started.....lots of work.

As far as the parties being yorkies, I won't deny that is probably so...but, lets wait and see what the research and genetic results bring in.

Yes, the breed is being ruined by indiscriminate breeders.....one only has to look at the $$$ signs attached to Parties to know what breeding them is all about.

Again stating that it would behove the YTCA to accept the off colored yorkies is of course based on personal goals and beliefs to make it easier on those breeding them......it's not gonna happen, not in this life time

I am confused at this statement?
Do you mean all Parti Breeders or just some...because I do see the same $$$ sign in Traditional Yorkie breeders as well. Not all mind you.

I've seen the prices on both....and speaking in generalities but, what I have seen on parties is astronomical.

I have a ? that may or may not be on topic.
I have been told that "Show breeders" Will show a dog *finish* them Spay them and then sell for $5,000 / $12,000or more. Now I think that is Outragious and astronomical. I think it is great to Have all the awards but Why are they selling a older s/n dog for So much???
look here http://rondelkennels.com/nursery.html please tell me whats up with that??????????????
Sorry I am just trying to Understand. I have seen Show quality dogs go for Way more $ than Parties .

I saw that post about the Rondel dog earlier. I guess you would have to ask that breeder. I have never known a reputable breeder to sell a dog for that amount. Or even for $5000.
I actually know several breeders that place their retired stock/show dogs for pretty low prices so long as they get good homes.
But I understand what Mardelin means. The breeders of the off-colors that are selling them for large $$ amounts or as 'rarities' are the ones giving the bad name.

Not, familiar with that practice. Since I show to obtain validation of my breeding stock. Therefore, Champion them, breed them and when they've reached the required age to stop breeding them, spay/neuter them and keep them. There are those show/exhibitors that operate on a larger scale than I do, that will spay/nueter and teeth clean and place them in homes for the price of those procedures. Studs of course are kept longer since they can be used for stud beyond the 5 or 6 years females are retired.

show breeders
 

I do not know any show breeders who sell S/N retired pets for much more then the S/N. dental fees...when you think about it, a devoted pet lover is doing the breeder a wonderful favor. You can afford to care for just so many dogs and something willl suffer...vet care, grooming, attention..thi sis where common sense kicks in....

Tammy, Jeanie and Sue--

I just wanted to say thank you to you 3 for taking the time to discuss this and share your input. I am very happy that this thread remained civil and that we were able to share opinions and ideas with one another one this subject. (That doesn't seem to be happening much lately.) I must say I am shocked that a thread about breeding partis managed to get to 13 pages without getting locked. :thumbup:
I appreciate your comments, knowledge and sharing info about your progress with the partis. Even though I don't fully understand or agree with all of your ideas, it was very interesting to discuss them and get your view on the subject.
It will be interesting to see how the 'parti movement' progresses and I appreciate you 3 being open with your research and ideas--I look forward to seeing the outcome of your efforts.
:)

Thanks Misty~

I know that there has been a lot thrown around about the motives of a parti breeder. It seems to be that the common opinion of you, Mardelin,Yorkierose, etc....would be that it is for the $$. For me, I am as passionate about the parti as you guys are about the traditional. I fell in love with the parti long before I knew the cost of them. I feel so strong about my Livi and how beautiful she is that nothing will sway me. Don't get me wrong, I like the blue and gold (I also have a traditional Yorkie),but I adore the look of my parti girl (and of course, her typical Yorkie spunk!) :)

Tammy