Important vaccines?Give or not to give?

[gemy]

I vaccinate against Lyme's Disease, as it is prevalent here in S.W. Ontario, and we camp and hike into other areas, nevermind the show travel we do.

I still need to do much more research; but I know enough right now to say my 5 yr old BRT has had his last Rabies shot. I will titer from now on in.

What concerns me is my vet has said; Oh Gail, you know that titering can be inaccurate They was a lot of other stuff going on, and I never queried him about this statement.

So does anyone have any studies etc about the accuracy of titering?

[yorkienewbie]

Originally Posted by beecee

Funny, I just read an article about vet hospitals and kennels requiring certain vaccines that shouldn't be mandatory to save themselves from liability...oh I still have the tab open too.

Bordetella Vaccination for Dogs: Fraud and Fallacy

I read the article......now i'm confused!

[yorkienewbie]

I've never heard of titer test until now...... I wish I knew about this a few years ago when Hailey was younger(she turns 6 years old next month) and i wonder why my vet has never mentioned titering as an alternative to vaccinating yearly. I will definetely look into this and check with my vet to see how much it will cost.

[Lovetodream88]

Originally Posted by gemy

I vaccinate against Lyme's Disease, as it is prevalent here in S.W. Ontario, and we camp and hike into other areas, nevermind the show travel we do.

I still need to do much more research; but I know enough right now to say my 5 yr old BRT has had his last Rabies shot. I will titer from now on in.

What concerns me is my vet has said; Oh Gail, you know that titering can be inaccurate They was a lot of other stuff going on, and I never queried him about this statement.

So does anyone have any studies etc about the accuracy of titering?

I also would be interested in reading a study or a few too.

[BLowry]

I only believe in giving the initial vaccs when they are puppies...I have given alot of thought to the shots once a year...matter of fact our first girl, Sadie, got all of these and I continued into the next year. I decided to have a titer done on her...Her levels for distemper were extremely high...had a titer done the following year...still high! I have made the decision NOT to give shots every year...of course rabies I have no choice...if I did ...I wouldn't do it every 3 year either, unfortunately there is no titer for rabies.... I feel this is an easy way for vets to get money...We camp alot...last year I decided to go with the lyme shot for the girls...sadie didn't get hers because she needed her rabies...was going to bring her back for it...so Lillie got it...long story short...she had a bad reaction to it...I had to rush her to the vets and he gave her a prednosone shot to counteract the lyme shot...he made me stay in his office until he saw an improvement in her...she started to eat and you could see a little pep in her step...he wrote in her chart...no more lyme shot! and I wasn't charged for the visit. I was unaware that lyme shot could cause reactions...had I known this she wouldn't have gotten it...I know longer use this vet. Bordetella is for kennel cough..I ONLY had this treatment done for them because it was needed when I brought them to training school...will never get it again because I don't kennel my dogs...Just because they get all these shots every year does NOT mean they can't get sick...they still can! If the lyme disease shot prevented lyme disease why don't they have one for humans? I don't like filling their little bodies with all these vaccines...I don't feel it's necessary...I will have them vaccinated but maybe every 5 yrs...as for Lepto...not recommended for small breeds...

[Lovetodream88]

Originally Posted by BLowry

I only believe in giving the initial vaccs when they are puppies...I have given alot of thought to the shots once a year...matter of fact our first girl, Sadie, got all of these and I continued into the next year. I decided to have a titer done on her...Her levels for distemper were extremely high...had a titer done the following year...still high! I have made the decision NOT to give shots every year...of course rabies I have no choice...if I did ...I wouldn't do it every 3 year either, unfortunately there is no titer for rabies.... I feel this is an easy way for vets to get money...We camp alot...last year I decided to go with the lyme shot for the girls...sadie didn't get hers because she needed her rabies...was going to bring her back for it...so Lillie got it...long story short...she had a bad reaction to it...I had to rush her to the vets and he gave her a prednosone shot to counteract the lyme shot...he made me stay in his office until he saw an improvement in her...she started to eat and you could see a little pep in her step...he wrote in her chart...no more lyme shot! and I wasn't charged for the visit. I was unaware that lyme shot could cause reactions...had I known this she wouldn't have gotten it...I know longer use this vet. Bordetella is for kennel cough..I ONLY had this treatment done for them because it was needed when I brought them to training school...will never get it again because I don't kennel my dogs...Just because they get all these shots every year does NOT mean they can't get sick...they still can! If the lyme disease shot prevented lyme disease why don't they have one for humans? I don't like filling their little bodies with all these vaccines...I don't feel it's necessary...I will have them vaccinated but maybe every 5 yrs...as for Lepto...not recommended for small breeds...

Kenneling is not the only way they can catch kennel cough. I think Lepto is really hard to decided on because if you are in an area where Lepto is a problem your dog could get it and it could kill them so you have to really weigh things out. My parents had an animal that died of Lepto and all I can say is thank god Callie and Sammy were vaccinated for it.

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by yorkienewbie

I've never heard of titer test until now...... I wish I knew about this a few years ago when Hailey was younger(she turns 6 years old next month) and i wonder why my vet has never mentioned titering as an alternative to vaccinating yearly. I will definetely look into this and check with my vet to see how much it will cost.

Titering has some flaws and may not always be accurate, plus as I said before, it costs more than the shots; so many people just decide to get the shots. I mean there are already so many rumors that your vet is out to bleed your dry. Talk to your vet about it and explain to him your dog's lifestyle and how much of a risk he is for getting some of these diseases.

[BLowry]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

Titering has some flaws and may not always be accurate, plus as I said before, it costs more than the shots; so many people just decide to get the shots. I mean there are already so many rumors that your vet is out to bleed your dry. Talk to your vet about it and explain to him your dog's lifestyle and how much of a risk he is for getting some of these diseases.

titers are expensive....can't remember what I paid...had it done with other things...Lillies titer came back she needed the vaccine...I didn't have to pay for the shot because I had paid for the titer...

I think it is a personal decision. As we all know bringing our little ones to the vet is at least a 100.00 visit if not, more. He have to make the decision whether or not we feel it is the best interest of our animals to have all these vaccines..for me...I don't feel it's necessary...I have them get what they need...especially as puppies...the previous vet I was going to had me on a 3 yr plan for vaccines...I feel 5 yrs is just as good...think of tetanus shots...we only get them very 7 yrs...why do our pups need vaccines every year..

[Britster]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

I do think it’s unfair to suggest that vets give the vaccines because they are greedy and this is a huge part of their income. Wouldn’t they suggest titers if this were true? In my opinion, I think vets have a different perspective and see more obvious illness from not getting the vaccines rather than getting them, so they still believe that this is the safest thing to do for the majority of dogs. When there is indeed more proof that over vaccination is harmful and does indeed cause problems, vets will be more open to suggesting alternatives.

I don't believe all vets do this. But I don't understand why a vet would give vaccines every year anymore when the AAHA recommends every 3yrs. The only reason I could think would be because annual vaccines bring their clinic a lot of money or they have not educated themselves. There is literally NO reason to give vaccines every year.

Yeah, titers are more expensive... most owners wouldn't pay for titers. If they knew vaccines were proven to last for 7 or more years in the dogs immune system, why would they pay money for titers, or even come to the vet in the first place? Most dog owners really just think it's standard to vaccinate every year and don't question it. So it gets these people in the door who wouldn't otherwise most likely be coming to the vet.

I certainly am not one thinks all vets are out to get us or anything, or full of greedy people. But it IS a business and when it comes to vaccines... yep, I do believe it's a huge easy money maker for them.

Consider this… One dose of rabies vaccine costs the vet about 61 cents. The client is typically charged between $15 and $38, plus a $35 office visit. The markup on the vaccine alone is 2,400 percent to 6,200 percent—a markup equivalent to charging $217 for a loaf of bread. According to one estimate, removing the one-year rabies vaccination and consequential office visit for dogs alone would decrease the average small vet’s income from $87,000 to $25,000—and this doesn’t include cats or other vaccinations.



According to James Schwartz, author of Trust Me, I’m Not a Veterinarian, 63 percent of canine and 70 percent of feline vet office visits are for vaccinations. Clearly, radically changing the vaccine schedule for dogs and cats would result in a huge economic loss for any veterinary practice that is built around shots. And chances are the vaccines you are paying so much for are creating even more income for vets, because the adverse reactions and other medical issues caused by the vaccines keep Fluffy coming back often!




Veterinary vaccine sales amounted to more than $3.2 million in 2004 and have risen 7 percent per year since 2000. This figure is projected to exceed $4 billion in 2009. Six companies account for more than 70percent of world veterinary vaccine sales. The market leader is Intervet, with sales of almost $600 million in 2004. That’s a whole lot of 61-cent vaccines. The United States has by far the largest share of the national market with revenues of $935 million, and Japan comes in second with $236 million.

Pet vaccination warning. Severe adverse reaction to immunization

[Britster]

Boosters don't booster anything. You are either immune or you aren't. From what I understand about titers, however, the memory cells have to be activated to show proper immunity. So before you have the titers drawn, walk the dog around a Petsmart or a park where other dogs have walked around for a few days before the test. This gets their immune system up and running so the titer will be accurate. If the dog has just been in your backyard and not exposed to other dogs at all, there's a chance the titer may come back unacceptably low - even though the dog DOES have immunity, if that makes sense. This is apparently one downfall of the titers. A dog could be successfully immune against parvo/distemper/rabies but it might not show on the titer test if the memory cells are dormant and haven't been activated. So hedge your bets and get her out and about before having the test done for the most accurate results.

More articles that I like:
http://www.spanieljournal.com/28lbaughan.html
http://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com...immunity-vets/
http://www.cedarbayvet.com/duration_of_immunity.htm
http://www.whale.to/vaccine/driscoll1.html
http://www.dogsadversereactions.com/...ineDamage.html

The thing with minimal vaccines is that it isn't some new aged idea that gets spout around forums... there's actual research and scientific evidence that has been being researched for many many years.

[107barney]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

Yeah, I’m still up in the air about Bordetella, I can’t really go to some grooming places without it, and Joey gets his nails clipped at the groomers in between visits with his breeder.

I do think it’s unfair to suggest that vets give the vaccines because they are greedy and this is a huge part of their income. Wouldn’t they suggest titers if this were true? In my opinion, I think vets have a different perspective and see more obvious illness from not getting the vaccines rather than getting them, so they still believe that this is the safest thing to do for the majority of dogs. When there is indeed more proof that over vaccination is harmful and does indeed cause problems, vets will be more open to suggesting alternatives.

I have to agree with Brit on this one. There is simply no good reason for annual vaccinations. It's a business decision for vets, plain and simple.

[107barney]

Originally Posted by Lovetodream88

I always do bordetella because I would rather prevent my dog from getting kennel cough instead of treating the kennel cough after its gotten. If Lepto is something that is in your area I would get the vaccine. My mom had an animal that died of Lepto so I make sure my dog has that. We also have a tick problem here so I make sure to get Callie the Lyme vaccine as well. I know lots of people worry about over vaccination but I also worry about my dog not being vaccinated against something she could be and ends up catching it and having to go through being sick and through treatment for it when for all we know it could hurt, the sickness and the treatment when they made a vaccine for it.

My older dogs had bordatella vaccinations. I stopped doing it the second time Barney got kennel cough despite having the vaccine. The vaccine does not cover all strains.

I also have never done the lyme vaccine. I know of at least three dogs who had Lyme despite being vaccinated. Lyme is prevalent here - one statistic I read said 90% of dogs are lyme positive. I have never pulled a tick off my dogs, and I won't do the vaccine.

As for lepto....I've decided the risk of the vaccine is not outweighed by any benefit to my dogs. Although lepto is also prevalent here, the vaccine only covers some of the serovars of the disease.

[107barney]

Originally Posted by BLowry

I only believe in giving the initial vaccs when they are puppies...I have given alot of thought to the shots once a year...matter of fact our first girl, Sadie, got all of these and I continued into the next year. I decided to have a titer done on her...Her levels for distemper were extremely high...had a titer done the following year...still high! I have made the decision NOT to give shots every year...of course rabies I have no choice...if I did ...I wouldn't do it every 3 year either, unfortunately there is no titer for rabies.... I feel this is an easy way for vets to get money...We camp alot...last year I decided to go with the lyme shot for the girls...sadie didn't get hers because she needed her rabies...was going to bring her back for it...so Lillie got it...long story short...she had a bad reaction to it...I had to rush her to the vets and he gave her a prednosone shot to counteract the lyme shot...he made me stay in his office until he saw an improvement in her...she started to eat and you could see a little pep in her step...he wrote in her chart...no more lyme shot! and I wasn't charged for the visit. I was unaware that lyme shot could cause reactions...had I known this she wouldn't have gotten it...I know longer use this vet. Bordetella is for kennel cough..I ONLY had this treatment done for them because it was needed when I brought them to training school...will never get it again because I don't kennel my dogs...Just because they get all these shots every year does NOT mean they can't get sick...they still can! If the lyme disease shot prevented lyme disease why don't they have one for humans? I don't like filling their little bodies with all these vaccines...I don't feel it's necessary...I will have them vaccinated but maybe every 5 yrs...as for Lepto...not recommended for small breeds...

It is my understanding you can titer for rabies. However, proof of immunity with a titer may not prevent a quarantine of your dog in a shelter. It is for this reason I will continue to do rabies vaccines on my dogs in accordance with state law. I would rather do a rabies vaccine than have my dog quarantined in a state shelter.

[Maximo]

Does anyone have the Cliff's Notes on Crystal's monster thread about vaccinations and why and how vaccinations came to be annual things?

The last dog we had before our yorkies only had puppy vaccs, and then rabies annually (as required by state law) for the rest of her life.

I had never heard of annual DHPP until Max and Teddy came into my life. Our vet agreed to a 3-year plan for them, but I still don't understand why they need it.

[Maximo]

Originally Posted by Maximo

Does anyone have the Cliff's Notes on Crystal's monster thread about vaccinations and why and how vaccinations came to be annual things?

The last dog we had before our yorkies only had puppy vaccs, and then rabies annually (as required by state law) for the rest of her life.

I had never heard of annual DHPP until Max and Teddy came into my life. Our vet agreed to a 3-year plan for them, but I still don't understand why they need it.

...other than vets seeing this as a money maker. They had to have offered some explanation.

While there is a business component, I do think vets also want to ensure pets are seen regularly and not go years without an exam.