Mars info letter - Biewer "Terriers"

[EnchantedToi]

Interesting letter received , sharing it to help with all those interested and researching the Biewer


We have received your inquiry about Biewer Terriers.

For the detection of mixed-breed dogs, we are currently able to detect signatures of 153 American Kennel Club (AKC) defined breeds and 4 non-AKC breeds. We are working towards expanding this to the full list of AKC registered breeds and more of the popular non-AKC breeds over the next year. Unfortunately, since the Biewer Terrier is not a breed we currently recognize, it will not be included in this expansion of our test.

The analysis is designed to find matches to the breeds in our database, so if the computer can find matches between your dog's DNA and our designated breeds with enough confidence, it will identify them. If your dog does contain a portion of Biewer Terrier, the analysis may identify Minors of breeds that are genetically closely related to it.

However, if the computer cannot find breeds that match with enough confidence, the Biewer Terrier portion will be left blank or it will be considered "too mixed" to call. For the other breeds in your dog, if there is a significant component from a breed that is covered in the test (e.g., a purebred dog in last three generations) then Wisdom Panel MX should be able to detect these other breeds. Overall, it is important to note that the presence of a breed signature that the test does not detect at present may cause inaccuracies in the analysis.

In regards to your purebreed inquiry; Wisdom Panel MX test analyzes over 300 genetic markers to determine the ancestral breed composition of a mixed-breed dog. Within this panel, there are almost no markers which are absolutely specific to one breed. Each breed will have a combination of markers within the panel that represent the breed. Within a mixed-breed dog, depending on the heritage of the breeds, not all of those markers may be passed down through the generations to appear in the genetic make-up of the dog that is tested. For example, on average, you would only expect 25% of the breed markers from a Grandparent to be passed down to the current dog. Thus, the way the test works is to use a best-fit model that is selected on the basis of the highest probability for each breed depending upon the analysis of markers that are found in the current dog. The final report is generated depending on the highest probability breeds found with a lower limit cut-off to ensure that the false positive reports are reduced to a minimum.

The relationship between the markers and breeds is unfortunately proprietary information as it forms the basis of the test and is therefore not publicized. Where pure breed dogs are concerned, most often the report generated by the test will simply indicate the pure strain of the breed in question as no other markers will be found at a high enough confidence level to generate a result. However, although our sample base covers 157 breeds and comprises more than 8,700 samples in total, there are several cases in which pure breed dogs may not be detected as purebred by Wisdom Panel MX test.

First, if the dog in question is not or was not bred within the continental US, even if it is an example of an AKC recognized breed, then we may not pick up the breed signature as the distinctive markers that identify the breed may vary greatly in foreign lines. Secondly, if there has been a very isolated breeding line for the pure breed, then we may not have enough coverage of that breed's gene pool to identify the dog as purebred. For these reasons, we do not advertise or recommend the use of Wisdom Panel MX as a test for confirming the purity of a purebred dog. This is due to the fact that Wisdom Panel MX is designed to find multiple breeds in an analysis, under the assumption that the dog it is testing has more than one breed in its mix. A test to determine breed purity would need to be designed for that purpose and its accuracy validated.


We hope this answers your inquiry. If you have any additional questions, please do not hesitate to contact us at customercare@marsveterinary.com or 888-K9 PET TEST (1-888-597-3883).


Regards,


Mars Veterinary

Customer Care Department

Dog DNA Test | Mixed Breed Analysis | Canine Breed Testing

[phfgkl]

Not to sound stupid, but, could you explain this to me?

[Pruett]

Originally Posted by EnchantedToi

Interesting letter received , sharing it to help with all those interested and researching the Biewer

We have received your inquiry about Biewer Terriers.

For the detection of mixed-breed dogs, we are currently able to detect signatures of 153 American Kennel Club (AKC) defined breeds and 4 non-AKC breeds. We are working towards expanding this to the full list of AKC registered breeds and more of the popular non-AKC breeds over the next year. Unfortunately, since the Biewer Terrier is not a breed we currently recognize, it will not be included in this expansion of our test.

The analysis is designed to find matches to the breeds in our database, so if the computer can find matches between your dog's DNA and our designated breeds with enough confidence, it will identify them. If your dog does contain a portion of Biewer Terrier, the analysis may identify Minors of breeds that are genetically closely related to it.

However, if the computer cannot find breeds that match with enough confidence, the Biewer Terrier portion will be left blank or it will be considered "too mixed" to call. For the other breeds in your dog, if there is a significant component from a breed that is covered in the test (e.g., a purebred dog in last three generations) then Wisdom Panel MX should be able to detect these other breeds. Overall, it is important to note that the presence of a breed signature that the test does not detect at present may cause inaccuracies in the analysis.

In regards to your purebreed inquiry; Wisdom Panel MX test analyzes over 300 genetic markers to determine the ancestral breed composition of a mixed-breed dog. Within this panel, there are almost no markers which are absolutely specific to one breed. Each breed will have a combination of markers within the panel that represent the breed. Within a mixed-breed dog, depending on the heritage of the breeds, not all of those markers may be passed down through the generations to appear in the genetic make-up of the dog that is tested. For example, on average, you would only expect 25% of the breed markers from a Grandparent to be passed down to the current dog. Thus, the way the test works is to use a best-fit model that is selected on the basis of the highest probability for each breed depending upon the analysis of markers that are found in the current dog. The final report is generated depending on the highest probability breeds found with a lower limit cut-off to ensure that the false positive reports are reduced to a minimum.

The relationship between the markers and breeds is unfortunately proprietary information as it forms the basis of the test and is therefore not publicized. Where pure breed dogs are concerned, most often the report generated by the test will simply indicate the pure strain of the breed in question as no other markers will be found at a high enough confidence level to generate a result. However, although our sample base covers 157 breeds and comprises more than 8,700 samples in total, there are several cases in which pure breed dogs may not be detected as purebred by Wisdom Panel MX test.

First, if the dog in question is not or was not bred within the continental US, even if it is an example of an AKC recognized breed, then we may not pick up the breed signature as the distinctive markers that identify the breed may vary greatly in foreign lines. Secondly, if there has been a very isolated breeding line for the pure breed, then we may not have enough coverage of that breed's gene pool to identify the dog as purebred. For these reasons, we do not advertise or recommend the use of Wisdom Panel MX as a test for confirming the purity of a purebred dog. This is due to the fact that Wisdom Panel MX is designed to find multiple breeds in an analysis, under the assumption that the dog it is testing has more than one breed in its mix. A test to determine breed purity would need to be designed for that purpose and its accuracy validated.

We hope this answers your inquiry. If you have any additional questions, please do not hesitate to contact us at customercare@marsveterinary.com or 888-K9 PET TEST (1-888-597-3883).

Regards,

Mars Veterinary

Customer Care Department

Dog DNA Test | Mixed Breed Analysis | Canine Breed Testing

Jan, Can you explain what this means? What are they saying the Biewer Terrier, as they refer to it is? Are they saying that there are several mixed breeds in the Biewer?

[MindieRose]

I am SO glad I am not the only one that had this go over my head, lol.

[txrosegirl]

i could be way off, but is this saying the biewer is a breed of its own due to mixing other breeds together? i thought that was what some of the groups were already saying? i have a personal interest in biewers and want to learn everything i can from all biewer people

that is what i gathered but i could be wrong

[sierrapups]

It sounds to me that the Mars Panel is reaffirming what has been said all along by some of us. This is a dog that is a breed of its own and is already referred to as the Biewer Terrier.
Maybe Jan can explain what this letter means to her.

[phfgkl]

LOL I've re-read it 5 times now, and from what I'm getting from it, it looks like what the BTCA has been saying all along...WOO HOO!!!!

[phfgkl]

Originally Posted by sierrapups

It sounds to me that the Mars Panel is reaffirming what has been said all along by some of us. This is a dog that is a breed of its own and is already referred to as the Biewer Terrier.
Maybe Jan can explain what this letter means to her.

LOL We were typing at the same time!

[Pruett]

There were a couple of things that didn't quite make sense to me as we have been collaborating with the Scientists from MARS for almost 2 years now and the statement:

"First, if the dog in question is not or was not bred within the continental US, even if it is an example of an AKC recognized breed, then we may not pick up the breed signature as the distinctive markers that identify the breed may vary greatly in foreign lines"

caught me by surprised. Through our many conversations we talked about the UK lines quite a bit. Actually if you go on the wisdom panel site you will see that this letter is basically just a repeat of the information on their site.

A Heritage of Research DNA Analysis and Breed Detection
The Wisdom Panel™ MX Mixed Breed Analysis is the result of over a decade's investigation into the complexities of canine genetics conducted in conjunction with the Waltham Centre for Pet Nutrition, one of the world's leading institutions for the study of animal behavior and nutritional science.

Blood samples from thousands of AKC and British Kennel Club certified purebred dogs have been closely analyzed. Understanding the genetics of British dogs is important as many of our favorite breeds were bred from dogs that originated in the UK.

Millions of genetic markers have been mapped and compared in the development of the Wisdom Panel™ MX Mixed Breed Analysis, the world's most advanced, and most accurate, mixed breed analysis.

Thank you Jan for helping the public understand more about the Biewer Terrier

[Obie]

Oh my gosh! Hopefully you are finally understanding the testing that was and is being done on the Biewer Terrier. The Biewer Terrier has its genetic marker and is getting stronger with breeders here in the states dedicated in concentrating on perfecting this breed. We do not have a Yorkshire Terrier. Hopefully all who read this will understand what is being done and the difference in a true PUREBRED BIEWER TERRIER.

[AprilLove]

Originally Posted by EnchantedToi

Interesting letter received , sharing it to help with all those interested and researching the Biewer


We have received your inquiry about Biewer Terriers.

For the detection of mixed-breed dogs, we are currently able to detect signatures of 153 American Kennel Club (AKC) defined breeds and 4 non-AKC breeds. We are working towards expanding this to the full list of AKC registered breeds and more of the popular non-AKC breeds over the next year. Unfortunately, since the Biewer Terrier is not a breed we currently recognize, it will not be included in this expansion of our test.

The analysis is designed to find matches to the breeds in our database, so if the computer can find matches between your dog's DNA and our designated breeds with enough confidence, it will identify them. If your dog does contain a portion of Biewer Terrier, the analysis may identify Minors of breeds that are genetically closely related to it.

However, if the computer cannot find breeds that match with enough confidence, the Biewer Terrier portion will be left blank or it will be considered "too mixed" to call. For the other breeds in your dog, if there is a significant component from a breed that is covered in the test (e.g., a purebred dog in last three generations) then Wisdom Panel MX should be able to detect these other breeds. Overall, it is important to note that the presence of a breed signature that the test does not detect at present may cause inaccuracies in the analysis.

In regards to your purebreed inquiry; Wisdom Panel MX test analyzes over 300 genetic markers to determine the ancestral breed composition of a mixed-breed dog. Within this panel, there are almost no markers which are absolutely specific to one breed. Each breed will have a combination of markers within the panel that represent the breed. Within a mixed-breed dog, depending on the heritage of the breeds, not all of those markers may be passed down through the generations to appear in the genetic make-up of the dog that is tested. For example, on average, you would only expect 25% of the breed markers from a Grandparent to be passed down to the current dog. Thus, the way the test works is to use a best-fit model that is selected on the basis of the highest probability for each breed depending upon the analysis of markers that are found in the current dog. The final report is generated depending on the highest probability breeds found with a lower limit cut-off to ensure that the false positive reports are reduced to a minimum.

The relationship between the markers and breeds is unfortunately proprietary information as it forms the basis of the test and is therefore not publicized. Where pure breed dogs are concerned, most often the report generated by the test will simply indicate the pure strain of the breed in question as no other markers will be found at a high enough confidence level to generate a result. However, although our sample base covers 157 breeds and comprises more than 8,700 samples in total, there are several cases in which pure breed dogs may not be detected as purebred by Wisdom Panel MX test.

First, if the dog in question is not or was not bred within the continental US, even if it is an example of an AKC recognized breed, then we may not pick up the breed signature as the distinctive markers that identify the breed may vary greatly in foreign lines. Secondly, if there has been a very isolated breeding line for the pure breed, then we may not have enough coverage of that breed's gene pool to identify the dog as purebred. For these reasons, we do not advertise or recommend the use of Wisdom Panel MX as a test for confirming the purity of a purebred dog. This is due to the fact that Wisdom Panel MX is designed to find multiple breeds in an analysis, under the assumption that the dog it is testing has more than one breed in its mix. A test to determine breed purity would need to be designed for that purpose and its accuracy validated.


We hope this answers your inquiry. If you have any additional questions, please do not hesitate to contact us at customercare@marsveterinary.com or 888-K9 PET TEST (1-888-597-3883).


Regards,


Mars Veterinary

Customer Care Department

Dog DNA Test | Mixed Breed Analysis | Canine Breed Testing

Sounds like they are saying, they don't have 100% confidence that results are true based on the limited amount of dogs that have been tested.

Approx 550 samples per breed in their data base. Are these all from american lines? AKC? Biewers originated in Germany

[Pruett]

Originally Posted by AprilLove

Sounds like they are saying, they don't have 100% confidence that results are true based on the limited amount of dogs that have been tested.

Approx 550 samples per breed in their data base. Are these all from american lines? AKC? Biewers originated in Germany

You must have missed my post indicating the testing of the dogs in the UK.

Blood samples from thousands of AKC and British Kennel Club certified purebred dogs have been closely analyzed. Understanding the genetics of British dogs is important as many of our favorite breeds were bred from dogs that originated in the UK.

Validation testing has resulted in an average accuracy* of 90%.
Since there aren't a whole lot of things that are 100%, I believe I'll be happy with 90%. So 10 out of 100 dogs may be incorrect. That might answer questions we had about some of the dogs individual test results.

[GreenwoodBiewer]

Originally Posted by EnchantedToi

Interesting letter received , sharing it to help with all those interested and researching the Biewer


We have received your inquiry about Biewer Terriers.

For the detection of mixed-breed dogs, we are currently able to detect signatures of 153 American Kennel Club (AKC) defined breeds and 4 non-AKC breeds. We are working towards expanding this to the full list of AKC registered breeds and more of the popular non-AKC breeds over the next year. Unfortunately, since the Biewer Terrier is not a breed we currently recognize, it will not be included in this expansion of our test.

The analysis is designed to find matches to the breeds in our database, so if the computer can find matches between your dog's DNA and our designated breeds with enough confidence, it will identify them. If your dog does contain a portion of Biewer Terrier, the analysis may identify Minors of breeds that are genetically closely related to it.

However, if the computer cannot find breeds that match with enough confidence, the Biewer Terrier portion will be left blank or it will be considered "too mixed" to call. For the other breeds in your dog, if there is a significant component from a breed that is covered in the test (e.g., a purebred dog in last three generations) then Wisdom Panel MX should be able to detect these other breeds. Overall, it is important to note that the presence of a breed signature that the test does not detect at present may cause inaccuracies in the analysis.

In regards to your purebreed inquiry; Wisdom Panel MX test analyzes over 300 genetic markers to determine the ancestral breed composition of a mixed-breed dog. Within this panel, there are almost no markers which are absolutely specific to one breed. Each breed will have a combination of markers within the panel that represent the breed. Within a mixed-breed dog, depending on the heritage of the breeds, not all of those markers may be passed down through the generations to appear in the genetic make-up of the dog that is tested. For example, on average, you would only expect 25% of the breed markers from a Grandparent to be passed down to the current dog. Thus, the way the test works is to use a best-fit model that is selected on the basis of the highest probability for each breed depending upon the analysis of markers that are found in the current dog. The final report is generated depending on the highest probability breeds found with a lower limit cut-off to ensure that the false positive reports are reduced to a minimum.

The relationship between the markers and breeds is unfortunately proprietary information as it forms the basis of the test and is therefore not publicized. Where pure breed dogs are concerned, most often the report generated by the test will simply indicate the pure strain of the breed in question as no other markers will be found at a high enough confidence level to generate a result. However, although our sample base covers 157 breeds and comprises more than 8,700 samples in total, there are several cases in which pure breed dogs may not be detected as purebred by Wisdom Panel MX test.

First, if the dog in question is not or was not bred within the continental US, even if it is an example of an AKC recognized breed, then we may not pick up the breed signature as the distinctive markers that identify the breed may vary greatly in foreign lines. Secondly, if there has been a very isolated breeding line for the pure breed, then we may not have enough coverage of that breed's gene pool to identify the dog as purebred. For these reasons, we do not advertise or recommend the use of Wisdom Panel MX as a test for confirming the purity of a purebred dog. This is due to the fact that Wisdom Panel MX is designed to find multiple breeds in an analysis, under the assumption that the dog it is testing has more than one breed in its mix. A test to determine breed purity would need to be designed for that purpose and its accuracy validated.


We hope this answers your inquiry. If you have any additional questions, please do not hesitate to contact us at customercare@marsveterinary.com or 888-K9 PET TEST (1-888-597-3883).


Regards,


Mars Veterinary

Customer Care Department

Dog DNA Test | Mixed Breed Analysis | Canine Breed Testing

Funny how some people can read the same thing as see totally different things. To me, this is very clear.

The MARS people are stating that their test was developed "FOR THE DETECTION OF MIXED BREED DOGS". To determine the makeup of these dogs, the tests uses DNA from 153 AKC defined breeds and 4 non- AKC breeds. (not yet all AKC breeds - NOTE *"THE BIEWER TERRIER IS NOT A BREED WE CURRENTLY RECOGNIZE, it will not be included in the test)

The test finds matches in the database to these samples and identifies them. If there are significant components from a breed that is covered (e.g. a purebred dog in last three generations), the Wisdom Panel should detect theese other breeds. * "OVERALL, IT IS IMPORTANT TO NOTE THAT THE PRESENCE OF A BREED SIGNATURE THAT THE TEST DOES NOT DETECT AT PRESENT MAY CAUSE INACCURACIES IN THE ANALYSIS"

"Where pure breed dogs are concerned, most often the report generated by the test will simply indicate the pure strain of the breed in question as no other markers will be found at a high enough confident level to generate a result. HOWEVER, although our sample base comvers 157 breeds and comprises more than 8,700 saples in total, THERE ARE SEVERAL CASES IN WHICH PURE BREED DOGS MAY NOT BE DETECTED AS PUREBRED BY WISDOM PANEL MX TEST.

1) IF THE DOG IN QUESTION IS NOT OR WAS NOT BRED WITHIN THE CONTINENTAL U.S. even if it is an exaqmple of an AKC recongnized breed, THEN WE MAY NOT PICK UP THE BREED SIGNATURE AS THE DISTINCTIVE MARKERS THAT IDENTIFY THE BREED MAY VARY GREATLY IN FOREIGN LINES.


2) IF THERE HAS BEEN A VERY ISOLATED BREEDING LINE FOR THE PURE BREED, THEN WE MAY NOT HAVE ENOUGH COVERAGE OF THAT BREED'S GENE POOL TO IDENTIFY THE DOGA AS PUREBRED.


FOR THESE REASONS, WE DO NOT ADVERTISE OR RECOMMEND THE USE OF WISDOM PANEL MX AS A TEST FOR CONFIRMING THE PURITY OF A PUREBRED DOG. .... A TEST TO DETERMINE BREED PURITY WOULD NEED TO BE DESIGNED FOR THAT PURPOSE AND ITS ACCURACY VALIDATED.

I don't see anything hard to understand in these statements.. they are saying clearly that the test you have been using to prove that the Biewer is not a purebred dog IS NOT or WAS not made for that purpose, nor is it accurate for that purpose. (No matter how loudly you say it, it still doesn't work .. you are using an invalid measure to try and prove something you want to prove.)

There are two VALID reasons why you may have gotten the results you did.. we know that these dogs were not bred in the US and we KNOW that it was a very limited, isulated breeding pool from which to draw. This makes perfect sence.

I'm sorry for making this SUCH a big deal and I'm sorry for getting so passionate about this ... But is IS a big Deal.. People are trying to high jack an entire breed.. sell them down the river.. say they are something they are not JUST so they can get AKC acceptance ??? Is it worth it ???

We will get there, but we will do it the RIGHT way. There is no need to deceive, falsify or twist .. these dogs deserve nothing less. We don't need to go in the back door.

-Diana

[kalina82]

As someone NOT in this debate you guys are having over the biewers let me give my 2 cents (which u will probably blow off)...

After reading that letter it seems to me that this test doesn't help Biewers at all. its says that if your dog is a biewer, since the MARS test doesn't recognize the breed, it will choose similar breeds to it. How does that help? "hey, your dog may be a biewer but since we really don't know let throw in some dogs that may look like biewers". how does that help? how is that accurate?

plus it says that it may not recognize lines from other countries so it would give innacurate results for that too.

---

It just seems like this debate between two groups of biewer breeders is getting worse and worse. Back when i last was paying attention to this debate, which was a while ago, biewers were still bred from yorkies. When did that change for some of you? I thought the first beiwer came from two standard yorkies that were carriers for the piebald gene?

[AprilLove]

RFLOL

I don't see a fence, and I know this wasn't directed at me. But Obie, why do you keep popping in here just to spew insults and innuendo? You have stated many times you are an "experienced" breeder, yet never care to sign your name or say who you are?

Wonder why that is????

Any time someone points out a different view point it seems to be incorrect in your eyes, so all that is mighty is YOU is that the testament???

So the right side of the fence is where? YOUR side?