Mars info letter - Biewer "Terriers"

[Obie]

Originally Posted by AprilLove

Bettering the breed doesn't mean rushing to AKC acceptance. It's not a contest
If you really truly believe that, then you do not know all of the breeders involved with this breed

We are not rushing for AKC acceptance. We are taking the necessary and cautionary steps for acceptance of this breed. That is what clubs do. It is called coming together, organizing to better the breed. If a club were not established, where would any breed be? I know AKC is not the ideal, but without some assemblance, there would be no purebred, as we know them.

[AprilLove]

Originally Posted by Pruett

How long have you been breeding MaryKay and what is your breed?

I am not a breeder. Never have been. And have never claimed to be
Nor have I ever claimed to be a Veterinary Professional because I work with dogs

But I suppose because I am not a breeder, I must have no knowledge of the breed?

How long you are a breeder does not make you a better or worse breeder than someone else. That kind of immature innuendo doesn't belong in this thread (imo) Experience is not only measured in years. A great amount of wisdom can be bestowed upon one person within one moment in time in their lives. Whatever that may be, whatever that experience brought them, that can not be measured in years.


There are some things I have been doing for many years, but I suck at it, lol
Some other things I have limited time doing, but have excelled at.
Just another way of trying to explain my answer to your question.

I will take quality over quantity as it relates to experience any time.

[Obie]

Originally Posted by AprilLove

I am not a breeder. Never have been. And have never claimed to be
Nor have I ever claimed to be a Veterinary Professional because I work with dogs

But I suppose because I am not a breeder, I must have no knowledge of the breed?

How long you are a breeder does not make you a better or worse breeder than someone else. That kind of immature innuendo doesn't belong in this thread (imo) Experience is not only measured in years. A great amount of wisdom can be bestowed upon one person within one moment in time in their lives. Whatever that may be, whatever that experience brought them, that can not be measured in years.



There are some things I have been doing for many years, but I suck at it, lol
Some other things I have limited time doing, but have excelled at.
Just another way of trying to explain my answer to your question.

I will take quality over quantity as it relates to experience any time.

I have taken quality many of times in my breeding program and it doesn't work that way April Love. Sorry. No, you need to be a breeder when discussing a new breed as the Biewer. And, a good breeder needs to be backed up by a good mentor. Don't ever think you can wing it without knowledge. A moment in time is just that - a moment in time, but back that up with knowledge is something else. I'm not saying your unknowledgable, however, I am saying your unknowledgable in breeding. That is a big difference.

[EnchantedToi]

We cannot change the German history of the breed, the dogs came from two Yorkshire Terriers, no one disputes that.
And we can speculate about what breeds if any were included in the mix along the way. In my opinion, the Biewer has been a distinct breed by evolution as with all the other breeds before it. Go read a few breed history's and you will read over and over again.. the speculation of what breeds may have been included in the mix of many UKC AKC and CKC dogs before ours.
In all breeds you will often hear " the pedigree is only as honest as the breeder" Do you really beleive that this only held true for other breeds and not the Biewer?

Since the breed arrived on North American soil in 2003 many of us have treated the Biewer as a breed of its own from the onset. ( Never allowing the breeding back of Yorkshire Terriers).

In my opinion it was obvious that in doing so, one was taking 1 step forward and 3 steps backwards.


By breeding Biewer - Biewer you set type.
Some breeders chose this path from the onset of involvement in the breed, others chose to breed back to the Yorkshire Terrier.
I can remember the many discussions topics and disagreements we had on this topic. Not that long ago


"Breed type is the very essence of every breed." Breed type consists of those qualities that set one breed apart from every other breed. Breed type includes the dog's appearance, movement, and character.

'The blue print for every breed is found in the breed standard. Every breed has a detailed written breed standard which defines correct breed type."

It is very interesting how each person deciphers the letter from Mars.
And thus the reason for posting it. Each is entitled to an opinion and each can research or contact Mars directly to ask further questions. They state they are eager to help answer any questions.

To suggest that others could not possibly understand the Mars testing is a little obnoxious.Many people have contacted them over and over and each time get a very similar responce.And funny thing is.... not once have they suggested to anyone writing.. to have their Biewers tested.

Previously you stated that Mars.. say's these things to avoid being sued. Mars now has placed information regarding that on the Faq's page as well

Frequently Asked Questions about Mars Veterinary

Each is entitled to an opinion, each can research and study.
However, to suggest that others are less capable of understanding what it takes to better a breed is very unfortunate.It is this very type of opinion that has helped keep the masses devided.

[quote]
The majority of the BTCA is made up of VERY EXPERIENCED breeders, not first time breeders or pet owners. We know what it takes to better a breed and understanding the heritage of the breed is among many of the things it takes.

Originally Posted by Pruett

Anyone that knows anything about Yorkies can look at this breed and know that it is not a Yorkie. It really didn't take a test to prove that, and for those that can't see it, really have no business breeding Biewers. For those that keep saying that it originated from 2 Yorkies doesn't mean a thing. Everything originated from something and was further developed from there.

Mrs. Biewer told us the breeders that were using other breeds to make the Biewer because her husband was very selective in who he dealt with. The Breed was being mixed even when Mr. Biewer was alive. It has been proven many times since 2004 who the breeders were that were falsifying pedigrees and who was using other breeds.

People need to grow up and accept the fact that their pedigree's don't mean much and this not a Yorkshire Terrier. What we develop in America is what the Biewer is going to be. You can either be a part of it, or you can continue to try and destroy everything we are working for.

I have always been the first to admit that I have a lot to learn, especially with this breed. If it had been a Yorkie, it would have been easy.

[EnchantedToi]

Originally Posted by GreenwoodBiewer

Why would you make this comment? There are two other clubs that I know of (I believe there is another that I don't know any of the members of ) that have very caring, devoted breeders who's focus in life is to do nothing more than see that the Biewers can become all they can be. Granted, there are people out there, as in any other breed, breeding for other reasons.. but to think that the BTCA has the corner on people who care deeply about the Biewers development is just wrong. They may just have a quieter, gentler approach.

-Diana

Thank you Diana

[AprilLove]

Originally Posted by Obie

I have taken quality many of times in my breeding program and it doesn't work that way April Love. Sorry. No, you need to be a breeder when discussing a new breed as the Biewer. And, a good breeder needs to be backed up by a good mentor. Don't ever think you can wing it without knowledge. A moment in time is just that - a moment in time, but back that up with knowledge is something else. I'm not saying your unknowledgable, however, I am saying your unknowledgable in breeding. That is a big difference.

Please could you not misconstrue my words There is so much twisting of words by you, it is disappointing I already stated I am not a breeder, so you just are repeating my statement but in your classically degrading way.

And I do disagree with your statement. I, nor others, do not need to be a breeder to discuss a new or existing breed.
That would be saying most of the membership of YT, should not be discussing Yorkies?
If you believe that to be the case, then maybe your discussion should stay in your forum, with your breeders that you respect and hold to the utmost standards Why bother coming on the Yorkie forum to discuss the breed you say is a Biewer Terrier if it bothers you so much that we disagree with your statements?

Ps, My name is on my siggy, it is MaryKay. AprilLove is my Yorkie and username.

[Delightyorkies]

Originally Posted by AprilLove

I am not a breeder. Never have been. And have never claimed to be
Nor have I ever claimed to be a Veterinary Professional because I work with dogs

But I suppose because I am not a breeder, I must have no knowledge of the breed?

How long you are a breeder does not make you a better or worse breeder than someone else. That kind of immature innuendo doesn't belong in this thread (imo) Experience is not only measured in years. A great amount of wisdom can be bestowed upon one person within one moment in time in their lives. Whatever that may be, whatever that experience brought them, that can not be measured in years.


There are some things I have been doing for many years, but I suck at it, lol
Some other things I have limited time doing, but have excelled at.
Just another way of trying to explain my answer to your question.

I will take quality over quantity as it relates to experience any time.

That is by far the most ignorant statement I have ever heard.You have highly offended any experienced breeder.There is many things in life only experience can teach you and breeding is one off them.

[tatertot]

Originally Posted by Obie

I wanted to introduce myself to you at the Reading Expo, but you turned away. As many of you have, even your President -Why? Yes, we are all here trying to better our Biewers. And, there is no perfect breeder out there! We are all too new in trying to establsih what we have for show potential. However, my next showing is going to be "bred by", as I feel I can finally establish my line. I hope to see more bred by's in the show ring.

Well then I must apologize as I did not see anyone from your club approach me at anytime. I walked past your booth several times but due to my past encounters with your President, I did not feel comfortable coming over. First let me ask who are you? Second how do you know who I am. How would I have known you were trying to speak to me. I did not hear anyone of you call my name. I again would like to apologize as I'm not usually rude to people who want to speak to me. Hopefully we will again get a chance to meet in person. I would love to some day be in the bred by.

[Obie]

Originally Posted by AprilLove

Please could you not misconstrue my words There is so much twisting of words by you, it is disappointing I already stated I am not a breeder, so you just are repeating my statement but in your classically degrading way.

And I do disagree with your statement. I, nor others, do not need to be a breeder to discuss a new or existing breed.
That would be saying most of the membership of YT, should not be discussing Yorkies?
If you believe that to be the case, then maybe your discussion should stay in your forum, with your breeders that you respect and hold to the utmost standards Why bother coming on the Yorkie forum to discuss the breed you say is a Biewer Terrier if it bothers you so much that we disagree with your statements?

Ps, My name is on my siggy, it is MaryKay. AprilLove is my Yorkie and username.

Well MaryKay, I so diagree with you. Sorry However, I don't hold it against you.

[Obie]

Originally Posted by tatertot

Well then I must apologize as I did not see anyone from your club approach me at anytime. I walked past your booth several times but due to my past encounters with your President, I did not feel comfortable coming over. First let me ask who are you? Second how do you know who I am. How would I have known you were trying to speak to me. I did not hear anyone of you call my name. I again would like to apologize as I'm not usually rude to people who want to speak to me. Hopefully we will again get a chance to meet in person. I would love to some day be in the bred by.

I am sure we will meet again, and I will make it a point to introduce myself.

[GreenwoodBiewer]

Originally Posted by Obie

I have taken quality many of times in my breeding program and it doesn't work that way April Love. Sorry. No, you need to be a breeder when discussing a new breed as the Biewer. And, a good breeder needs to be backed up by a good mentor. Don't ever think you can wing it without knowledge. A moment in time is just that - a moment in time, but back that up with knowledge is something else. I'm not saying your unknowledgable, however, I am saying your unknowledgable in breeding. That is a big difference.

OK.. this I don't understand either. Do you mean to say that because a person is not a breeder, they can have no opinion on this breed? Because she isn't a breeder she has no knowledge of how these dogs are developing or what they do or need?

I know you learn alot by breeding and by doing.. but MaryKay and many of our "non" breeders are an integral part of our Biewers development. Just because they don't physically hold a dog while they're mating or pull a pup out of the sac, doesn't mean they couldn't do it if they needed too.

MK lives very close to me, she can be with the puppies from hours old .. she has graciously agreed to adopt 2 of my Biewers .. I would trust her in a New York minute with the lives of my dogs or the health of the puppies. She watches as puppies are born. Our breeders are always mentoring the "non" breeders, we talk with them equally about problems with the dogs, ask, give and recieve advice. There is no hierarchy .. I'd venture to guess she knows more about her dogs then 1/2 of the breeders out there, know and understand about theirs .. for many, these dogs are in intrigal part of their lives and treated and thought of as members of their family. You can not discount that devotion as trivial or the knowledge of the breed as nonexsistant or meaningless.

-Diana

[EnchantedToi]

Originally Posted by Obie

I wanted to introduce myself to you at the Reading Expo, but you turned away. As many of you have, even your President -Why? Yes, we are all here trying to better our Biewers. And, there is no perfect breeder out there! We are all too new in trying to establsih what we have for show potential. However, my next showing is going to be "bred by", as I feel I can finally establish my line. I hope to see more bred by's in the show ring.

Did you really think that your surprise visit at the BBCA National Specialty during the shows was an appropriate time to introduce yourself to the President?
Don't be offended by those who couldnt make time for you, showing dogs can be very busy and hectic.

[EnchantedToi]

Diana

I could not agree more, there are so many Biewer " Fanciers" that have such a strong bond with this breed. To suggest they are anything less knowledgeable , or educated in the Breed is very unfortunate. As we all have so much more to learn and I'm sure Mary Kay could teach me a thing or two.

Diana

Originally Posted by GreenwoodBiewer

OK.. this I don't understand either. Do you mean to say that because a person is not a breeder, they can have no opinion on this breed? Because she isn't a breeder she has no knowledge of how these dogs are developing or what they do or need?

I know you learn alot by breeding and by doing.. but MaryKay and many of our "non" breeders are an integral part of our Biewers development. Just because they don't physically hold a dog while they're mating or pull a pup out of the sac, doesn't mean they couldn't do it if they needed too.

MK lives very close to me, she can be with the puppies from hours old .. she has graciously agreed to adopt 2 of my Biewers .. I would trust her in a New York minute with the lives of my dogs or the health of the puppies. She watches as puppies are born. Our breeders are always mentoring the "non" breeders, we talk with them equally about problems with the dogs, ask, give and recieve advice. There is no hierarchy .. I'd venture to guess she knows more about her dogs then 1/2 of the breeders out there, know and understand about theirs .. for many, these dogs are in intrigal part of their lives and treated and thought of as members of their family. You can not discount that devotion as trivial or the knowledge of the breed as nonexsistant or meaningless.

-Diana

[EnchantedToi]

Please be respectful

[EnchantedToi]

Originally Posted by Delightyorkies

That is by far the most ignorant statement I have ever heard.You have highly offended any experienced breeder.There is many things in life only experience can teach you and breeding is one off them.

I disagree with this statement ,and to suggest otherwise is again.......... one of the reasons the groups are so devided.
JMO