Mars info letter - Biewer "Terriers"

[sierrapups]

Originally Posted by GreenwoodBiewer

OK.. this I don't understand either. Do you mean to say that because a person is not a breeder, they can have no opinion on this breed? Because she isn't a breeder she has no knowledge of how these dogs are developing or what they do or need?

I know you learn alot by breeding and by doing.. but MaryKay and many of our "non" breeders are an integral part of our Biewers development. Just because they don't physically hold a dog while they're mating or pull a pup out of the sac, doesn't mean they couldn't do it if they needed too.

MK lives very close to me, she can be with the puppies from hours old .. she has graciously agreed to adopt 2 of my Biewers .. I would trust her in a New York minute with the lives of my dogs or the health of the puppies. She watches as puppies are born. Our breeders are always mentoring the "non" breeders, we talk with them equally about problems with the dogs, ask, give and recieve advice. There is no hierarchy .. I'd venture to guess she knows more about her dogs then 1/2 of the breeders out there, know and understand about theirs .. for many, these dogs are in intrigal part of their lives and treated and thought of as members of their family. You can not discount that devotion as trivial or the knowledge of the breed as nonexsistant or meaningless.

-Diana

Being a newbie at breeding I was very fortunate to have been mentored by VERY EXPERIENCED breeders, all three well over 12 years of breeding experience. Let me tell you, there is absolutely no way that you can understand what goes into breeding until you have bred dogs yourself. The chosing of the correct dogs, the knowing of how to pair dogs up, the birthing etc, etc, etc.
You have to know what you are doing when you are making judgements on a new breed. So to have never bred and then to come on and insult those that are very experienced is irresponsible.
Without knowing the results of a controlled study it is best to listen and learn than to jump to conclusions and then later try and come up with damage control.

[Pruett]

Originally Posted by EnchantedToi

We cannot change the German history of the breed, the dogs came from two Yorkshire Terriers, no one disputes that.
And we can speculate about what breeds if any were included in the mix along the way. In my opinion, the Biewer has been a distinct breed by evolution as with all the other breeds before it. Go read a few breed history's and you will read over and over again.. the speculation of what breeds may have been included in the mix of many UKC AKC and CKC dogs before ours.
In all breeds you will often hear " the pedigree is only as honest as the breeder" Do you really beleive that this only held true for other breeds and not the Biewer?

Since the breed arrived on North American soil in 2003 many of us have treated the Biewer as a breed of its own from the onset. ( Never allowing the breeding back of Yorkshire Terriers).

In my opinion it was obvious that in doing so, one was taking 1 step forward and 3 steps backwards.

By breeding Biewer - Biewer you set type.
Some breeders chose this path from the onset of involvement in the breed, others chose to breed back to the Yorkshire Terrier.
I can remember the many discussions topics and disagreements we had on this topic. Not that long ago

"Breed type is the very essence of every breed." Breed type consists of those qualities that set one breed apart from every other breed. Breed type includes the dog's appearance, movement, and character.

'The blue print for every breed is found in the breed standard. Every breed has a detailed written breed standard which defines correct breed type."

It is very interesting how each person deciphers the letter from Mars.
And thus the reason for posting it. Each is entitled to an opinion and each can research or contact Mars directly to ask further questions. They state they are eager to help answer any questions.

To suggest that others could not possibly understand the Mars testing is a little obnoxious.Many people have contacted them over and over and each time get a very similar responce.And funny thing is.... not once have they suggested to anyone writing.. to have their Biewers tested.

Previously you stated that Mars.. say's these things to avoid being sued. Mars now has placed information regarding that on the Faq's page as well

Frequently Asked Questions about Mars Veterinary

Each is entitled to an opinion, each can research and study.
However, to suggest that others are less capable of understanding what it takes to better a breed is very unfortunate.It is this very type of opinion that has helped keep the masses devided.

.

By giving the expertise of the breeders in the BTCA, how did you get "However, to suggest that others are less capable of understanding what it takes to better a breed is very unfortunate". This adding to what is said constantly is what is keeping the masses divided. If I were talking about you, I would have said so.

You say "to suggest that others could not possibly understand the Mars testing is a little obnoxious", yet look what you did with the results of the individual tests on Nancy's dogs. If that didn't show lack of understanding, I don't know what to say. Unless you have seen the whole report you do not know what is involved.

Mars isn't worried about being sued directly, it's about other people dragging them into court to defend their tests.

Can you explain to me what evolution took place? I am not being a smart-alec, I really want to know what you mean by this.

[GreenwoodBiewer]

Originally Posted by sierrapups

Being a newbie at breeding I was very fortunate to have been mentored by VERY EXPERIENCED breeders, all three well over 12 years of breeding experience. Let me tell you, there is absolutely no way that you can understand what goes into breeding until you have bred dogs yourself. The chosing of the correct dogs, the knowing of how to pair dogs up, the birthing etc, etc, etc.
You have to know what you are doing when you are making judgements on a new breed. So to have never bred and then to come on and insult those that are very experienced is irresponsible.
Without knowing the results of a controlled study it is best to listen and learn than to jump to conclusions and then later try and come up with damage control.

AAAhh.. if only we breeders were the GODS you paint us out to be, we would not have these problems. I don't believe MK insulted anyone .. and I have well over 12 years of breeding experience and I LOOK for a mentor.. haha.. I consider myself a newbie.. glad you found people you could trust. I say again, you don't have to know what dogs to "put together" to understand the essence of bettering this breed.. look at MK's dogs.. I doubt you'll find better representations out there.. she picked them.. she had to know something

I don't know about your controlled study.. all I know is what you have been posting and I disagree with your conclusions and the letter that started this thread verifies my beliefs.

Now it seems, your stories are about to change AGAIN and I can hardly wait for the NEW and improved version.. believe me, I am waiting with baited breath to see what these beautiful dogs are now.

I'm sure you've discovered the "secret" to which dogs are and which dogs aren't TRUE Biewers.. why yours (who came from the same litters as many of ours) are superior and "different" and why people should Not Be Fooled into thinking that All Biewers are the same.. am I close????

The most amazing thing is that you actually get people to believe it.. to that I take off my hat (if I was wearing one)

-Diana

[Pruett]

Originally Posted by tatertot

Well then I must apologize as I did not see anyone from your club approach me at anytime. I walked past your booth several times but due to my past encounters with your President, I did not feel comfortable coming over. First let me ask who are you? Second how do you know who I am. How would I have known you were trying to speak to me. I did not hear anyone of you call my name. I again would like to apologize as I'm not usually rude to people who want to speak to me. Hopefully we will again get a chance to meet in person. I would love to some day be in the bred by.

What are those past encounters Sandi? The last time I talk to you, you were trying to say some one entered your dogs in the show without your knowledge. Funny thinkg about that, you and Dee are the only ones with the information to enter the dogs.