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Old 05-15-2017, 06:03 PM   #1
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Default Crate Woes

Dang. As I've mentioned, I have my first puppy and even though I'm not a youngster, right now I feel pretty inept.

Morris (17 weeks) is currently raising holy heck in his crate- he had a 45 min walk, a nice session of fetch, ate well and fell asleep. I placed him in his crate 8 min ago, and...

Is it okay for me to ride this out under the cover of my earphones and music? If so, for how long?

Thanks for any help.

Kathy (and Morris~)
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Old 05-15-2017, 07:20 PM   #2
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Are you putting him in for bed? Is the crate where he can see you in your bed? I only really use the crate at night with the pups. I would get them ready for bed take them potty and put them in their crate and ignore them until they fell asleep. If they woke up and were crying I would take them potty and then put them right back in. It normally takes a week or two for them to get used to it. What worked with my little boy when he was much younger was a snuggle pup that has a heart beat. They sell something like it at petsmart. It's hard at the begaining.
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Old 05-15-2017, 07:35 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by Lovetodream88 View Post
Are you putting him in for bed? Is the crate where he can see you in your bed? I only really use the crate at night with the pups. I would get them ready for bed take them potty and put them in their crate and ignore them until they fell asleep. If they woke up and were crying I would take them potty and then put them right back in. It normally takes a week or two for them to get used to it. What worked with my little boy when he was much younger was a snuggle pup that has a heart beat. They sell something like it at petsmart. It's hard at the begaining.
I've had Morris for a month, since he was 12 weeks. Yes, I only use the crate at night. Like you, I've checked for potty needs, but tonight, I knew he had just gone.

I have a senior cat (20 yrs), I've given her the upstairs and Morris and I have been sleeping in the living room. He is about 10 feet away. I spent the 1st 3 weeks with the crate uncovered, close enough to touch, and moved him a week ago (only 5 feet) and started using a crate cover. He is so reactive to any noise, and I wanted to be able to move around after he went to sleep.

Thing is.. I have not been as consistent the last two nights and when he kept crying last night, I took him out because I have apartment shared walls and was worried. However, he has never spent the entire night out of the crate.

He finally fell asleep after almost an hour. I didn't take him out. Worried though that the crate now has BAD MOJO in his view. Negative association.

Thank you soooooo very much for helping. I was about to cry. haha No, really, I was just as upset as he, but I didn't show it. Guess that's something.
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Old 05-15-2017, 07:55 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by Lovetodream88 View Post
What worked with my little boy when he was much younger was a snuggle pup that has a heart beat.
Thanks for the suggestion- I just ordered the Snuggle Puppy from Amazon.
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Old 05-15-2017, 08:16 PM   #5
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You can also start giving him a treat when he goes into his crate, I have done that too.
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Old 05-16-2017, 02:00 AM   #6
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There are many dogs (and other creatures) who cannot tolerate being confined to very small spaces, and I can certainly understand that.

Some dogs do great w/ crates - others, not at all. None of mine could tolerate it, and I would never force it upon any living being who couldn't deal with it.

Maybe explore other options, such as an Xpen or Iris pen...I used the Iris pen.
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Old 05-16-2017, 04:56 AM   #7
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There are many dogs (and other creatures) who cannot tolerate being confined to very small spaces, and I can certainly understand that.

Some dogs do great w/ crates - others, not at all. None of mine could tolerate it, and I would never force it upon any living being who couldn't deal with it.

Maybe explore other options, such as an Xpen or Iris pen...I used the Iris pen.
I can also relate to the horror of confinement! When I look at the crate, I see a cage, and when I latch it, I cannot help but experience a moment of powerlessness.

Then, I check myself and revisit the other side of the coin- the mantras I have read time and again.. A canine needs and benefits from the security of a den... and, limits and structure must be imposed and it is my responsibility to create and carry them out for the welfare of the animal.

Gosh. This must be akin to what parents experience! I've taught all levels of public school for 18 years, and raised cats to 18 and 20 years, but when it comes to puppy raising, I am without an ounce of philosophical certainty.

Good thing you guys are here!!

Thanks again.

Kathy (and Morris)
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Old 05-16-2017, 09:02 AM   #8
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I can also relate to the horror of confinement! When I look at the crate, I see a cage, and when I latch it, I cannot help but experience a moment of powerlessness.

Then, I check myself and revisit the other side of the coin- the mantras I have read time and again.. A canine needs and benefits from the security of a den... and, limits and structure must be imposed and it is my responsibility to create and carry them out for the welfare of the animal.

Gosh. This must be akin to what parents experience! I've taught all levels of public school for 18 years, and raised cats to 18 and 20 years, but when it comes to puppy raising, I am without an ounce of philosophical certainty.

Good thing you guys are here!!

Thanks again.

Kathy (and Morris)
I think crates are necessary to keep puppies safe at night. There is so much they can get into.
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Old 05-16-2017, 04:38 PM   #9
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I use the crate for a few reasons (airline type) We live in an easily evacuated area (hurricanes),I worry about their safety at night and I am a crazy light sleeper. Three of our dogs found the crates to be their special haven as they got older, the youngest has accepted it but is the first one out in the am and never goes near it in the daytime. She is more comfortable in the Iris pen, which I have kept up even tho she is now 6 years old! I would stick with it...
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Old 05-17-2017, 03:58 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kathylouise View Post
I can also relate to the horror of confinement! When I look at the crate, I see a cage, and when I latch it, I cannot help but experience a moment of powerlessness.

Then, I check myself and revisit the other side of the coin- the mantras I have read time and again.. A canine needs and benefits from the security of a den... and, limits and structure must be imposed and it is my responsibility to create and carry them out for the welfare of the animal.

Gosh. This must be akin to what parents experience! I've taught all levels of public school for 18 years, and raised cats to 18 and 20 years, but when it comes to puppy raising, I am without an ounce of philosophical certainty.

Good thing you guys are here!!

Thanks again.

Kathy (and Morris)
Hah, being without philosophical certainty is a certainty here, so you're in good company !

The "wolf den" theory you read about in different places is much different than a crate. Wolf dens are safe havens - and are open to coming and going; crates are cages, confining, can cause feelings of being trapped. HUGE difference. So, we can't really correlate those 2 things like people assume we can...totally different experience. 1 is forced; 1 is not at all -- incomparable.

There are many ways to keep a puppy safe - it does not in any way require a crate - that's just an opinion out there. It's not a fact. People even build things from scratch for their puppies that are phenomenal. There are lots of avenues to safety. A crate is just one, and it may not work for your puppy or be best for its well being.

You really just have to get to know *your* puppy and understand what it's trying to tell you....whether it's telling you "I'm anxious" or "I'm peaceful...I'm doing okay, Mom" -- it's all there in their actions . Listen to what they're trying to tell you, and let that be part of your guide on your path of Puppy Momdom.....

Best of luck !
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Old 05-17-2017, 06:59 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kathylouise View Post
Dang. As I've mentioned, I have my first puppy and even though I'm not a youngster, right now I feel pretty inept.

Morris (17 weeks) is currently raising holy heck in his crate- he had a 45 min walk, a nice session of fetch, ate well and fell asleep. I placed him in his crate 8 min ago, and...

Is it okay for me to ride this out under the cover of my earphones and music? If so, for how long?

Thanks for any help.

Kathy (and Morris~)




I'llshare our experiences so you might glean something for your situation - ornot. But hope this helps. We have had 3 dogs - sheltie, minidachshund and now our little yorkie. We have found crate training to be reallyimportant and different for each dog. The sheltie (which we now recognize was arescue) had a very hard time. If we had understood her psychology better, wewould have done things very differently. The doxie loved her crate and asdoxie's love to tunnel she had a tube blanket and would burrow down. If weweren't careful she'd smell like a dirty sock. lol Our yorkie puplikes her hard-sided crate at bedtime near us and sleeps well but the minutewe're up, she's out! It took us some time to find the right bed/blanketcombo for her and we learned she is AFRAID OF THE DARK! So, a crate cover wouldbe a disaster and anytime she spends the night with a sitter we make sure thereis light. We did like you where she started out right next to us and thenslowly (and I mean inches) moved further away. In the motorhome, shesleeps in her crate but about 4 AM she'll get cold and that is the only timeshe's allowed to crawl in with us. She'll tolerate a crate in the car forjust a short time, but that took lots of training and treats and we leave a specialchew we save just for that occasion. We tend to frequent dog friendlyvenues. For air travel we use a soft-sided crate. She is tiny and isin the cabin with us. That is not her favorite and if she were left alonein it, she has proven she would try to scratch her way out! But with usnear, she does well enough.


Goodluck customizing your pup's crate. I would encourage you to persevere so youhave that option for you and your dog as over years a lot of situations arrivewhere security and safety and sanity need to prevail.


PS When we had our doxie, we also had our big boy cat. When we crate trained her, he was so jealous of the treats that he crate trained, too. He'd do anything for a treat! Hilarious!
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Old 05-17-2017, 09:32 AM   #12
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Hah, being without philosophical certainty is a certainty here, so you're in good company !

The "wolf den" theory you read about in different places is much different than a crate. Wolf dens are safe havens - and are open to coming and going; crates are cages, confining, can cause feelings of being trapped. HUGE difference. So, we can't really correlate those 2 things like people assume we can...totally different experience. 1 is forced; 1 is not at all -- incomparable.

There are many ways to keep a puppy safe - it does not in any way require a crate - that's just an opinion out there. It's not a fact. People even build things from scratch for their puppies that are phenomenal. There are lots of avenues to safety. A crate is just one, and it may not work for your puppy or be best for its well being.

You really just have to get to know *your* puppy and understand what it's trying to tell you....whether it's telling you "I'm anxious" or "I'm peaceful...I'm doing okay, Mom" -- it's all there in their actions . Listen to what they're trying to tell you, and let that be part of your guide on your path of Puppy Momdom.....

Best of luck !
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The issue is you really need to try to get your dog used to a crate because if they have to stay at the vet for any kind of surgery even just for the day they have to stay in a crate and it can be really hard on them if they aren't used to it.
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Old 05-17-2017, 01:01 PM   #13
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Pups instinctively sleep with their pack, often back-to-back or on or near one another. Anything else is anathema to them so we have to allow them to slowly come around to our strange ways(to them our ways are very foreign). Dogs don't naturally isolate at bedtime or playtime in separate cave-like, confined areas but that's what you're asking her to do. You'll have to create fun, pleasant, short-lived associations with that crate for her to want to go in it.

First of all place a worn tee-shirt or socks with your scent on it in the crate so your baby can cuddle with a packmember's scent to help soothe her. Change as necessary with a piece of clothing with your scent on it until she's learned to love her crate.

Teach your pup that the crate is a temporary, very fun place. Feed her in there every meal with the door open as you sit right beside it, cheering her on as she eats in the crate. During the day, toss balls and toys and treats in there for her to go in and get, eat, retrieve but be able to come right out again so her 'prisoner' gene isn't triggered. Praise her and clap and act VERY enthusiastic when she goes in and praise her big time for anytime she should wander in on her on and immediately get her a special treat. Make a game of tossing a treat in and clapping and praising her for going in to eat it! The more fun the game, the more she'll like her crate.

Slowly build up her tolerance for the crate during the time you are home with her by putting her in with high-tone, squeaky-sounding, enthusiastic, happy words like "you've won the prize!" and "you WIN so IN you go!", add high-value treats or toys and close the door, walk away. One minute or two later, return and let her out with little fanfare. Repeat 30 mins. later and on and on until she's accepting her short time with no fuss. Gradually increase her time in the crate with the door shut as tolerated with no fuss from her. If you work up gradually and slowly enough, she should be able to stay in for a whole hour with no talkback.

But she'll still instinctively want to cuddle near the body warmth of a packmate at bedtime as that's how dogs instinctively sleep in nature. All of my dogs have slept in the bed with me, teehee. At first, I had to place them in the small, compact airline carriers with a worn sock of mine until I knew they could be clean in the bed and not go potty, etc. But those babies knew I was right there, nearby, my fingers sticking in the wire doorway if they felt separated from their pack. After a day or two, they didn't need the carrier anymore and slept with mommie.

But for many reasons dogs need to be trained to tolerate or even love the protection of their crate with total acceptance.
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Old 05-17-2017, 01:13 PM   #14
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I am overwhelmed at the level of support you guys have given. Please know I am absolutely taking to heart your advice and experience!

Really, thank you so very much for the detailed, thoughtful responses. My boy and I feel supported.

Kathy (and Morris)

* I will keep you updated..
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Old 05-17-2017, 03:25 PM   #15
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How to Teach Your Dog to Love the Crate (with Pictures) - wikiHow
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