Spay and Neuter: When and If ever?

[gemy]

Originally Posted by Seatrtle

I just had this conversation with my vet. She told me that the studies have been about large breed dogs, but that it does make sense that spaying or neutering too young could have an adverse affect on the system. She said animals have sex hormones for a reason and not just for reproduction. She said if you think about it like a thyroid, this tiny thing affects soooo many things if something goes wrong. She also cited the studies that show the benefit of spaying and neutering. She suggested letting my puppy have at least one heat before spaying.

Wow a vet who is up on the research! Not many studies is correct for small breed dogs this is true.
For a small breed dog I would concur that spaying a female after at least 8month old and or even after the first heat should be okay in the long run for the health of the female.

[gemy]

You know what I wish we could come to a consensus in the medical community to just use the word neutering - it works for both sexes !!

Benefits and Risks of Neutering–An Evidence-Based Approach | The SkeptVet

The front page is easy enough read - but you have to click on each research paper to see his by paper evaluation of the study and what his conclusions are versus the authors.

[pstinard]

Originally Posted by gemy

You know what I wish we could come to a consensus in the medical community to just use the word neutering - it works for both sexes !!

Benefits and Risks of Neutering–An Evidence-Based Approach | The SkeptVet

The front page is easy enough read - but you have to click on each research paper to see his by paper evaluation of the study and what his conclusions are versus the authors.

This is still a 2013 review, but he links to a PDF file of his review of research through 2014 here:

http://skeptvet.com/Blog/wp-content/...s-and-Cats.pdf

[gemy]

Originally Posted by pstinard

This is still a 2013 review, but he links to a PDF file of his review of research through 2014 here:

http://skeptvet.com/Blog/wp-content/...s-and-Cats.pdf

Thanks Phil. I found that one a bit easier to slog through.

[Zeus is Loved]

I neutered my baby at 6 months after a lot of research and long discussion with the vet. He also explained that most of the research was on large dogs and was much more harmful to them (based on what he had seen as a vet of over 30 years). As far as alternatives, I think that would depend on where you live as well. Some of us in smaller markets are not privy to the same things as bigger markets. That being said, my friend has a Shorkie and he was awful. They did not want him fixed. He would hike and pee everywhere (even in their son's XBox One) -- this after much money spent on training. He was also very aggressive toward people in general. The vet said the only choice was neutering. He is a totally different dog now. Still hikes some but has cut back, but the aggressive behavior has completely stopped. I guess everyone's story is different. Finding out that my baby had LCP Disease and needed FHO surgery very late and after a second opinion, I am glad there is no chance of him passing that wretched disease on to another baby -- even though I do not let him roam; there is a chance of anything happening in this world.

[gemy]

I believe that the weakest research is centered around behavioural benefits or risks with neutering at what ever age. Much of this research is based on questionnaires of owners and that a retrospective one which generally speaking relies on the owners memory. There is a saying: Memory is the gentlest of truths.

Some of the most dog aggressive dogs I have met have been neutered. I have no idea at what age it was done. But there you go that is my experience. In Toronto where I live anywhere from 80-90% dogs are neutered.

In terms of spraying or hiking a leg - well male dogs natural position is to lift a leg when peeing - spraying is a different behaviour. My intact Yorkie will spray most especially if I have a female in heat. I deal with that through different methods one of which includes belly bands during the worst of a females heat.

[Zeus is Loved]

Their boy was done between 12 and 18 months. The only reason I know the difference is I know this dog well. To be honest, I was a little afraid of his aggressive barking and biting "at you." I know how much money and time these people spent trying to train. I guess sometimes it doesn't work. The dog is now completely different, i.e. no barking and biting "at you," just a very rambunctious, friendly dog. He has also stopped peeing/spraying on their electronics.

As far as spaying and neutering, goodness knows I would have no idea the percentages down here in Mississippi; however, I would imagine it's not good as many stray dogs as our small shelter can handle.

[gemy]

Desexing

As the article is 2013 I doubt it contains much recent research still a good read through and from a non American perspective.

[Fmootry]

All of this is excellent information. However, I look at my little Mimi (3 mos) and just about cry thinking of putting her through any surgery. She is so very tiny and I can't see doing that to her. Yes, I understand the reasons behind it, but she rarely leaves the house and is never without me when she does leave the house. Today she got two vaccines and the poor thing is so out of character. Tomorrow she will be better, but that would not be the case with spay. It's not even time and I'm already sad and upset about it. Perhaps I should stop reading this stuff until another 3 months. Perhaps it will be more palatable at that time although I doubt it.

[gemy]

Originally Posted by Fmootry

All of this is excellent information. However, I look at my little Mimi (3 mos) and just about cry thinking of putting her through any surgery. She is so very tiny and I can't see doing that to her. Yes, I understand the reasons behind it, but she rarely leaves the house and is never without me when she does leave the house. Today she got two vaccines and the poor thing is so out of character. Tomorrow she will be better, but that would not be the case with spay. It's not even time and I'm already sad and upset about it. Perhaps I should stop reading this stuff until another 3 months. Perhaps it will be more palatable at that time although I doubt it.

Baring other medical factors there is no extant evidence for female Yorkies that would sway me, at least, not to spay. Maybe wait until 8mths old. Many small Yorkies here do successfully undergo surgery. There is a very small risk with any surgery - but you need to look on the other side. Dealing with heats and keeping her safe 1or2 tiimes a year - and should she be accidentally bred you are looking at her life - either by emergency spay or if you go through with the pregnancy - maybe c-section - maybe she has a crisis during whelping. Just make sure your vet is up on the best anaesthesia protocols - our library here provides a link to this information.

[pstinard]

I'm crossposting this from another thread because it is relevant to this discussion:

Originally Posted by pstinard

UC Davis will be releasing the results of a new study on the effects of spay/neutering of 30 breeds of dogs on June 26. I do not know if Yorkies are included, but I'll give an update if I can find the information.

Here is my update on the UC Davis conference. The link to the talk abstracts is here: 2017 International Society for Anthrozoology Conference | Continuing Education

Of particular interest is this talk by Ben Hart: http://www.vetmed.ucdavis.edu/ce/loc...tract_hart.pdf .

The abstract says:

Giving the Owner Data-base Guidelines on When & If to Spay or Neuter a Dog

Benjamin L Hart, DVM, PhD, DACVB and Lynette A. Hart, PhD
School of Veterinary Medicine, University of California
-Davis, Davis, California

Abstract

A broad overview, representing over 30 breeds will be presented. In essence, some breeds, including the Golden Retriever, Labrador Retriever, and German Shepherd Dog, have an increased risk of a joint disorder with spay/neuter before 1 year (early), ranging from 2 to 4 times that of neutering later. In small breed dogs, there is no increased risk. The increased risk for cancers, especially with lymphoma, occurs in several breeds with early spay/neuter.

So to emphasize, for small breed dogs, there is no increased risk of joint disorders with spay/neutering.

[BayleighL]

We thought we might have a litter of puppies before we spayed but after one heat and doing research on the process of having a litter including the time commitment we realized that was not something we could commit to. So, after her first heat but before her second could come along, we spayed her. She did fine and is a calm, happy yorkie. We haven't had any negatives issues. It was a tough decision and a little sad but we knew we weren't prepared to raise a litter.

[pstinard]

I'm attaching a screen shot of emails I exchanged with Lynnette Hart of UC Davis, one of the authors on the UC Davis studies of the risks and benefits of spaying various breeds of dogs. She says that "Generally small breeds are not affected." The June 26 seminar at UC Davis sounds like it will be very interesting. It's available to view live as it happens, but unfortunately I won't have the time to watch it, and registration to view it live costs $150. If anyone on Yorkietalk has the time and the money, registration information can be found here: 2017 International Society for Anthrozoology Conference | Continuing Education

[gemy]

Thanks Phil for posting this for us. Hope you and your Bella are doing well

[pstinard]

Originally Posted by gemy

Thanks Phil for posting this for us. Hope you and your Bella are doing well

Thanks! Bella, Walter, Foxy (the cat), and I are doing well. Just wishing that the rain would end!