Parti-Yorkie VS. Biewer - YorkieTalk.com Forums

Yorkshire Allen · 08-20-2008, 01:04 AM

I'm going to open this thread, I've searched on here and can't find a definitive answer, ...are Biewers and Parti-Yorkies more or less the same thing? I understand Biewers have a German background...but the standards seem more or less identical save color. Are there any movements to open US Biewer studbooks up to Parti-colored yorkies?

Sarah515 · 08-20-2008, 11:03 AM

I've been wondering the same thing...

Jilliebeanz96 · 08-20-2008, 11:09 AM

I have been wondering about this as well.. can't wait to see the replys. I read a little bit about Biewers on here because I believe there is a breeder that has both Yorkies and Biewers that is on the For Sale thread... but I just learned of Parti Yorkies recently...

..I am so lost sometimes.

BamaFan121s · 08-20-2008, 11:53 AM

They are the same thing in that they both derived from standard Yorkies, or so the story goes. I do not see any desire for either side to combine efforts though, as there ARE differences between the two. As you pointed out, the German ancestry, there is a standard regarding color placement. Biewer breeders have worked decades to assert that there IS a difference and to separate the Biewers from Standard Yorkies, develop their own breed club(s) etc. That has not been done with the Partis.

Nancy1999 · 08-20-2008, 11:59 AM

Both Partis and Biewers have what is called a recessive pie-bald gene that is responsible for their coloration. The Biewer breeders took what essentially was a Parti Yorkie and breed it many hundreds of times to develop a special coloration and marking for the dog. The Biewer has a standard and several clubs and is trying to get listed with the AKC registry as a separate breed. Because European countries have banned tail docking the Biewer standard calls for a full tail. Parti's on the other hand really have no official standard, and are just regular yorkies who have two recessive piebald genes, and their color is considered not within standard, but they are can still be listed with the AKC if their parents were listed. There is no separate category for Parti, that I'm aware of, they are just considered Yorkshire Terriers.

Lorraine · 08-21-2008, 07:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

Both Partis and Biewers have what is called a recessive pie-bald gene that is responsible for their coloration. The Biewer breeders took what essentially was a Parti Yorkie and breed it many hundreds of times to develop a special coloration and marking for the dog. The Biewer has a standard and several clubs and is trying to get listed with the AKC registry as a separate breed. Because European countries have banned tail docking the Biewer standard calls for a full tail. Parti's on the other hand really have no official standard, and are just regular yorkies who have two recessive piebald genes, and their color is considered not within standard, but they are can still be listed with the AKC if their parents were listed. There is no separate category for Parti, that I'm aware of, they are just considered Yorkshire Terriers.

Wrong. The Biewer Terrier breeders submitted DNA samples to prove they were Yorkies but the results were that they are not purebred Yorkies and currently are not recognized as purebred by any club other than the Biewer Terrier Club. A mix got in there somewhere. The Yorkie does not now nor did it ever carry a piebald gene.
The Biewer Club has now backtracked and now call them Biewer Terriers not Biewer Yorkies. They are not currently recognized as a breed by the German Kennel Club nor the FCI under whose rules for shows most clubs in Europe compete for their titles, nor does the AKC or Canadian Kennel Club recognize these as a breed.
This page is from the Yorkshire Terrier Club of America website that will explain to you about colour. YTCA is the parent club for the Yorkshire Terrier. Yorkshire Terrier Club of America (Awards)

BamaFan121s · 08-21-2008, 07:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lorraine

Wrong. The Biewer Terrier breeders submitted DNA samples to prove they were Yorkies but the results were that they are not purebred Yorkies and currently are not recognized as purebred by any club other than the Biewer Terrier Club. A mix got in there somewhere. The Yorkie does not now nor did it ever carry a piebald gene.
The Biewer Club has now backtracked and now call them Biewer Terriers not Biewer Yorkies.

Again, that depends on who you ask. And at this point, which of the many differnent theories can you really declare as more accurate than the next? There are numerous Biewer clubs currently, they don't all agree on this or numerous other issues with the dogs or even what they should be called at this point. Imagine that, controversy in the dog world....who'd have thought...

Lorraine · 08-21-2008, 08:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BamaFan121s

Again, that depends on who you ask. And at this point, which of the many differnent theories can you really declare as more accurate than the next? There are numerous Biewer clubs currently, they don't all agree on this or numerous other issues with the dogs or even what they should be called at this point. Imagine that, controversy in the dog world....who'd have thought...

The samples were sent to a genetist not just some lab somewhere. INterestingly enough the Biewer Terrier Club of America had her name and findings on their site which have now been removed. Kind of makes it harder to sell these dogs as purebred wrong colour Yorkies is my best guess as it was proven they are not pb piebald gene carrying Yorkies at all but were the results of crossing.
Really, people it doesn't matter at this stage except that they are not pb Yorkies. The Biewer Terrier Club of America is now trying to get them recognized as a breed, Terrier breed not a Yorkie. I hope they succeed and I do think it is great they are doing that. No longer can these dogs be represented as a 'rare' wrong colour of something they are not once the Biewer is recognized which the BT club will hopefully continue to pursue.
Don't hold your breath in the meantime thought, it takes many decades usually to get recognized.
Here in Canada for a new breed to get recognized, once the breed Club has all their applications etc in order, it still goes to the CKC membership for approval. It is one heck of a long process.

BamaFan121s · 08-21-2008, 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lorraine

The samples were sent to a genetist not just some lab somewhere. INterestingly enough the Biewer Terrier Club of America had her name and findings on their site which have now been removed. Kind of makes it harder to sell these dogs as purebred wrong colour Yorkies is my best guess as it was proven they are not pb piebald gene carrying Yorkies at all but were the results of crossing.
Really, people it doesn't matter at this stage except that they are not pb Yorkies. The Biewer Terrier Club of America is now trying to get them recognized as a breed, Terrier breed not a Yorkie. I hope they succeed and I do think it is great they are doing that. No longer can these dogs be represented as a 'rare' wrong colour of something they are not once the Biewer is recognized which the BT club will hopefully continue to pursue.

Again, it all depends on which "club" you are following. One one out of many Biewer breed clubs has elected to follow this path as far as I am aware, so this is not a 'blanket' answer that fits all. At the current time, there is still alot of skepticism and unanswered questions regarding Biewers floating around.
But I'm really not trying to turn this into a debate about the history of Biewers, because goodness knows there have been enough of those. (not meaning you Lorraine

)

chachi · 08-21-2008, 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lorraine

Wrong. The Biewer Terrier breeders submitted DNA samples to prove they were Yorkies but the results were that they are not purebred Yorkies and currently are not recognized as purebred by any club other than the Biewer Terrier Club. A mix got in there somewhere. The Yorkie does not now nor did it ever carry a piebald gene.
The Biewer Club has now backtracked and now call them Biewer Terriers not Biewer Yorkies. They are not currently recognized as a breed by the German Kennel Club nor the FCI under whose rules for shows most clubs in Europe compete for their titles, nor does the AKC or Canadian Kennel Club recognize these as a breed.
This page is from the Yorkshire Terrier Club of America website that will explain to you about colour. YTCA is the parent club for the Yorkshire Terrier. Yorkshire Terrier Club of America (Awards)

It is honestly so hard and confusing to keep up with what Biewers are or arent anymore. It seems like everyone states something different about if they came from yorkies or not and what their title is.

gypsyqueen · 08-21-2008, 08:49 AM

this is interesting

linda44 · 08-21-2008, 08:53 AM

ok so if you have a male biewer and a female biewer, their offspring will be biewer's?

BamaFan121s · 08-21-2008, 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by linda44

ok so if you have a male biewer and a female biewer, their offspring will be biewer's?

Yes.

(That was actually an easy question!

)

Nancy1999 · 08-21-2008, 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lorraine

Wrong. The Biewer Terrier breeders submitted DNA samples to prove they were Yorkies but the results were that they are not purebred Yorkies and currently are not recognized as purebred by any club other than the Biewer Terrier Club. A mix got in there somewhere. The Yorkie does not now nor did it ever carry a piebald gene.
The Biewer Club has now backtracked and now call them Biewer Terriers not Biewer Yorkies. They are not currently recognized as a breed by the German Kennel Club nor the FCI under whose rules for shows most clubs in Europe compete for their titles, nor does the AKC or Canadian Kennel Club recognize these as a breed.
This page is from the Yorkshire Terrier Club of America website that will explain to you about colour. YTCA is the parent club for the Yorkshire Terrier. Yorkshire Terrier Club of America (Awards)

My explanation was intended to answer the question; your reply of "wrong" is confusing, is my whole answer wrong, or just parts of it. Your link to YTCA does not discuss the piebald gene, and I wasn't aware that some people argued whether or not the Yorkshire terrier carried the piebald gene. You are aware that the piebald gene is recessive and it would take two, one from each parent before it would show up on the Yorkie? Is this what you meant by, "The Yorkie does not now nor did it ever carry a piebald gene"? Or are you saying that the Yorkshire terriers don't even have the piebald gene in their DNA makeup. It's really difficult to get any "facts" because every one is so emotional on this issue, and their minds seem made up, but studies and links given often have very little do with backing up statements. Not trying to argue, and I really would like a clearer understanding of the matter.

linda44 · 08-21-2008, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BamaFan121s

Yes.

(That was actually an easy question!

)

ok, got that straight, so a parti is from a reg. yorkie with the piesomething gene right? So....(Im really learning here...)
you can get a parti from one parent carrying the gene?
or both have to have the gene? And If they do have the gene they can throw reg and parti as well as the blue, or gold, or red yorkies right?
And....this can skip generations also right?

08-20-2008, 01:04 AM	#1
Yorkshire Allen YorkieTalk Newbie! Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Guyton, GA, USA Posts: 9	Parti-Yorkie VS. Biewer I'm going to open this thread, I've searched on here and can't find a definitive answer, ...are Biewers and Parti-Yorkies more or less the same thing? I understand Biewers have a German background...but the standards seem more or less identical save color. Are there any movements to open US Biewer studbooks up to Parti-colored yorkies?

08-20-2008, 11:03 AM	#2
Sarah515 YT Addict Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: St. Louis, MO Posts: 285	I've been wondering the same thing... __________________ Sarah and Josh Lucy and Ella

08-20-2008, 11:09 AM	#3
Jilliebeanz96 Alfie's a BIG Brother! Donating Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Boston, MA USA Posts: 1,072 Blog Entries: 4	I have been wondering about this as well.. can't wait to see the replys. I read a little bit about Biewers on here because I believe there is a breeder that has both Yorkies and Biewers that is on the For Sale thread... but I just learned of Parti Yorkies recently... ..I am so lost sometimes. __________________ Proud mommy of the one and only... Alfie Boy~! ...and Introducing, Our New Lil Baby Girly~! Also in our is Me (Jillian)Daddy (Lee)and skin-sis (Madison)

08-20-2008, 11:53 AM	#4
BamaFan121s YT 3000 Club Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Alabama Posts: 7,970	They are the same thing in that they both derived from standard Yorkies, or so the story goes. I do not see any desire for either side to combine efforts though, as there ARE differences between the two. As you pointed out, the German ancestry, there is a standard regarding color placement. Biewer breeders have worked decades to assert that there IS a difference and to separate the Biewers from Standard Yorkies, develop their own breed club(s) etc. That has not been done with the Partis. __________________ ...........Misty........... Trixie * Lexi * Chipsie

08-20-2008, 11:59 AM	#5
Nancy1999 Joey's Mom Donating Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Chandler, Arizona Posts: 4,935 Blog Entries: 1	Both Partis and Biewers have what is called a recessive pie-bald gene that is responsible for their coloration. The Biewer breeders took what essentially was a Parti Yorkie and breed it many hundreds of times to develop a special coloration and marking for the dog. The Biewer has a standard and several clubs and is trying to get listed with the AKC registry as a separate breed. Because European countries have banned tail docking the Biewer standard calls for a full tail. Parti's on the other hand really have no official standard, and are just regular yorkies who have two recessive piebald genes, and their color is considered not within standard, but they are can still be listed with the AKC if their parents were listed. There is no separate category for Parti, that I'm aware of, they are just considered Yorkshire Terriers. __________________ NancyJoey . Proud members of the CrAzYcLuB .and YAP - Join YAP Here! Please Sign this Petition – Help Stop Puppymill Abuse! . YorkieTalk Thread On Petition

08-21-2008, 08:49 AM	#11
gypsyqueen Donating Yorkie Yakker Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: las vegas Posts: 649	wow this is interesting

08-21-2008, 08:53 AM	#12
linda44 Donating YT 1000 Club Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: napa Posts: 1,634	ok so if you have a male biewer and a female biewer, their offspring will be biewer's?