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Old 07-11-2005, 04:20 PM   #1
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Question Didn't Realize Puppymills Advertise... take a look

http://www.puppyhavenkennel.com/

I found that page by accident. They sell to Petland and Noah's Ark. Check it out.
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Old 07-11-2005, 04:25 PM   #2
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omg you can defenatly tell its a mill. look at all those cages!! they don't have a single purebred dog well they do but thats not what they want to breed. those dogs look a little healthier but they have waaay too many!
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Old 07-11-2005, 04:27 PM   #3
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I am horrified!!!
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Old 07-11-2005, 04:59 PM   #4
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Just what is a puppymill? The term means different things to different people. This kennel owner has a 5 year warranty against death from disease and congenital defects. His facilities look immaculate and he "talks a good line" about socialization and temperament as well as his background in breeding. I don't see how every dog would get the attention it deserves but maybe he has a karge staff who interacts with the dogs. I found this link interesting reading~ It has another link to "What you can do if you think you have discovered a puppymill". Check it out if you are interested.
Y
http://www.canismajor.com/dog/puppymil.html
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Old 07-11-2005, 05:16 PM   #5
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By the formal definition, a puppy mill is a large-scale breeding operation that produces large numbers of puppies for profit.
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Old 07-11-2005, 05:19 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoCalyorkiLvr
Just what is a puppymill? The term means different things to different people. This kennel owner has a 5 year warranty against death from disease and congenital defects. His facilities look immaculate and he "talks a good line" about socialization and temperament as well as his background in breeding. I don't see how every dog would get the attention it deserves but maybe he has a karge staff who interacts with the dogs. I found this link interesting reading~ It has another link to "What you can do if you think you have discovered a puppymill". Check it out if you are interested.
Y
http://www.canismajor.com/dog/puppymil.html
Thanks for the link. I found it very informative & helpful.
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Old 07-11-2005, 05:21 PM   #7
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I guess just posting the link made my message confusing. Here is the entire article reprinted here with permission.

Just what is a puppy mill?A puppy mill is . . . .

The term "Puppy mill" means different things to different people:
Is a Puppy Mill. . .

A place where several breeds of dogs are raised and the breeder always has puppies for sale?
A dirty, trashy place where one or several breeds of dogs are kept in deplorable conditions and puppies are always available?
A place where a single breed of dog is raised in acceptable conditions and puppies are always available?

A place where lots of dogs are raised, where breeding is done solely for financial gain rather than protection of breed integrity, and where puppies are sold to brokers or to pet stores?

All of the above?
The answer depends on who you ask. . . .

A hobby breeder dedicated to promoting and protecting a particular breed or two might consider all of the above "breeders" to be puppy mills. Animal shelter and rescue workers who deal daily with abandoned dogs might agree. Operators of clean commercial kennels, licensed by the US Department of Agriculture, will strongly disagree, for the very mention of "puppy mill" damages their business and that of the pet stores they deal with.

John Q Dog Owner probably thinks of puppy mills as those places exposed on "20/20" or "Geraldo". They have seen the cameras pan back and forth over trash, piles of feces, dogs with runny noses and oozing sores, dogs crammed into shopping carts and tiny coops, rats sharing dirty food bowls and dry dishes. They've seen the puppy mill owner captured on tape, dirty, barely articulate, and ignorant of dog care, temperament, genetic health, or proper nutrition. He's belligerent, too, demanding to be left alone to earn his livelihood.

But is the television crew simply seeking the sensational and applying these appalling conditions to the entire dog producing industry? Just what is a puppy mill?

After World War II, when farmers were desperately seeking alternative methods of making money when traditional crops failed, the US Department of Agriculture encouraged the raising of puppies as a crop. Retail pet outlets grew in numbers as the supply of puppies increased, and puppy production was on its way.

However, the puppy farmers had little knowledge of canine husbandry and often began their ventures with little money and already-rundown conditions. They housed their dogs in chicken coops and rabbit hutches, provided little socialization, and often eschewed veterinary care because they couldn't afford to pay. Animal welfare organizations such as the Humane Society of the US (before it became politicized by the animal rights movement) investigated conditions at these farms and eventually were successful in focusing national attention on the repulsive conditions at "puppy mills."

Puppy mill conditions were a major impetus in the passage of the national Animal Welfare Act. However, as often happens, the appellation has been bastardized to mean any breeder who breeds lots of dogs, no matter what the conditions of the kennel or the health of the puppies. The AWA is administered by the US Department of Agriculture. The act lists several categories of businesses that handle dogs:

Pet wholesalers are those who import, buy, sell, or trade pets in wholesale channels, and they must be licensed by USDA to conduct business;

Pet breeders are those who breed for the wholesale trade, whether for selling animals to other breeders or selling to brokers or directly to pet stores or laboratories, and they must also be licensed by USDA to conduct business; and laboratory animal dealers, breeder, and bunchers must also be licensed, as must auction operators and promoters of contests in which animals are given as prizes.

Hobby breeders who sell directly to pet stores are exempt from licensing if they gross less than $500 per year and if they own no more than three breeding females.

The AWA does not list a definition of either "commercial kennel" or "puppy mill." The American Kennel Club also avoids defining "puppy mill" but does label a commercial breeder as one who "breeds dogs as a business, for profit" and a hobby breeder as "one who breeds purebred dogs occasionally to justifiably improve the breed, not for purposes of primary income."

AKC does not license breeders. [More on the AKC] The USDA issues licenses under the Animal Welfare Act after inspecting kennels to determine whether or not minimum standards for housing and care are being met. They require a minimum amount of space for each dog, shelter, a feeding and veterinary care program, fresh water every 24 hours, proper drainage of the kennel, and appropriate sanitary procedures to assure cleanliness.

USDA licensed more than 4600 animal dealers, more than 3000 of them dealing solely in wholsale distribution of dogs and cats, in 1992. Animal welfare proponents claim that there are many dealers (commercial kennels? puppy mills?) who have avoided the system, and that USDA does not have enough inspectors to seek them out and enforce the law. These welfarists have lobbied for stricter laws in the "puppy mill states" in the midwest.

It's easy to say that John Jones or Mary Smith runs a puppy mill or that pet store puppies come from puppy mills, but the label is tossed about so frequently and with so little regard for accuracy that each prospective dog owner should ascertain for himself whether or not he wishes to buy a dog from John Jones, Mary Smith, a pet store, or a hobby breeder. Here are our Dog Owner's Guidedefinitions to help you decide:

Hobby breeder: A breed fancier who usually has only one breed but may have two; follows a breeding plan in efforts to preserve and protect the breed; produces from none to five litters per year; breeds only when a litter will enhance the breed and the breeding program; raises the puppies with plenty of environmental and human contact; has a contract that protects breeder, dog, and buyer; runs a small, clean kennel; screens breeding stock to eliminate hereditary defects from the breed; works with a breed club or kennel club to promote and protect the breed; and cares that each and every puppy is placed in the best home possible.

Commercial breeder: One who usually has several breeds of dogs with profit as the primary motive for existence. The dogs may be healthy or not and the kennel may be clean or not. The dogs are probably not screened for genetic diseases, and the breeding stock is probably not selected for resemblance to the breed standard or for good temperament. Most commercial breeders sell their puppies to pet stores or to brokers who sell to pet stores.

Broker: One who buys puppies from commercial kennels and sells to retail outlets. Brokers ship puppies by the crate-load on airlines or by truckload throughout the country. Brokers must be licensed by USDA and must abide by the shipping regulations in the Animal Welfare Act.

Buncher: One who collects dogs of unknown origin for sale to laboratories or other bunchers or brokers. Bunchers are considered lower on the evolutionary scale than puppy mill operators, for there is much suspicion that they buy stolen pets, collect pets advertised as "Free to a good home", and adopt unwanted pets from animal shelters for research at veterinary colleges or industrial research laboratories.

Backyard breeder: A dog owner whose pet either gets bred by accident or who breeds on purpose for a variety of reasons. This breeder is usually ignorant of the breed standard, genetics, behavior, and good health practices. A backyard breeder can very easily become a commercial breeder or a puppy mill.

Puppy mill: A breeder who produces puppies hand over fist with no breeding program, little attention to puppy placement, and poor health and socialization practices. A puppy mill may or may not be dirty but it is usually overcrowded and the dogs may be neglected or abused because the breeder can't properly handle as many dogs as he has. Puppy mill operators often denigrate hobby breeders and their dogs in attempts to make a sale.

Unfortunately, some people who are well-ensconced in your local dog scene could be categorized as operating puppy mills. Prospective buyers should be careful to question anyone they are considering as a source for a puppy.

If you think you've found a puppy mill and wish to report it there are several actions you can take.

Rescue worker Linda Smith's eyewitness description of the conditions at one puppy mill are described in Puppymill nightmare.

Norma Bennett Woolf

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Dog Owner's Guide: What is a Puppy Mill? (www.canismajor.com/dog/puppymil.html)] is a part of the Dog Owner's Guide internet website and is copyright 2005 by Canis Major Publications. You may print or download this material for non-commercial personal or school educational use. All other rights reserved. If you, your organization or business would like to reprint our articles in a newsletter or distribute them free of charge as an educational handout please see our reprint policy.


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Old 07-11-2005, 05:22 PM   #8
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also very very interesting!
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Old 07-11-2005, 05:22 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by martym112
Thanks for the link. I found it very informative & helpful.

I am glad. I hope more take the time to read it and even click on the link about what to do to report a puppymill. Thank you.
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Old 07-11-2005, 05:29 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoCalyorkiLvr
Just what is a puppymill? The term means different things to different people. This kennel owner has a 5 year warranty against death from disease and congenital defects. His facilities look immaculate and he "talks a good line" about socialization and temperament as well as his background in breeding. I don't see how every dog would get the attention it deserves but maybe he has a karge staff who interacts with the dogs. I found this link interesting reading~ It has another link to "What you can do if you think you have discovered a puppymill". Check it out if you are interested.
Y
http://www.canismajor.com/dog/puppymil.html

Puppymill should NOT mean something different to many people but when I see posts like THIS one - it sure sends the wrong signal. I don't know ONE SINGLE person who would say THAT is acceptable living conditions for dogs.
LOOK At your OWN yorkie - would YOU want them in there ? I bet not.

Not to sound rude - I'm amazed at this post - but THAT IS A MILL. You think thats immaculate ... A DIRT FLOOR ? Long rows of CAGES is acceptable ? Dogs kept outside ?

and the worst RED FLAG - SELLING TO PETLAND.. who is the largest buyers of MILL Puppies ...That isn't enough to convince you that this is a MILL ?

OF course the guy talks a good talk - but NO one can socialize ALL THOSE dogs ...it's impossible - they just WANT OUT of the cage .....They can say whatever they want in their contracts - go try to enforce one and see what happens -

You can bet those guys have their contract written so that THEIR butts are covered and I won't believe for a minute that they sell healthy puppies - PETLAND SELLS MANY SICK PUPPIES - if they get them from THIS place - then let's do the math and say it for what it is - A PUPPY MILL making money off the backs of poor female dogs.

I can't fathom anyone defending places like this - I don't get it at all - those poor dogs have NO LIFE at all - they sit and breed and die. What kind of life is THAT?

Last edited by red98vett; 07-11-2005 at 05:33 PM.
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Old 07-11-2005, 05:37 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoCalyorkiLvr
Just what is a puppymill? The term means different things to different people. This kennel owner has a 5 year warranty against death from disease and congenital defects. His facilities look immaculate and he "talks a good line" about socialization and temperament as well as his background in breeding. I don't see how every dog would get the attention it deserves but maybe he has a karge staff who interacts with the dogs. I found this link interesting reading~ It has another link to "What you can do if you think you have discovered a puppymill". Check it out if you are interested.
Y
http://www.canismajor.com/dog/puppymil.html
I'm really in awe of this post I'm quoting - I think maybe a personal tour of a mill would stop anyone in their tracks ....and maybe we wouldn't be seeing any defending of PUPPY MILLS on a public site.

This Mill business needs to be stopped totally or regulated WAY more then it is now - seeing posts like this just make it harder for the people working to END puppy mills - I'm still shaking my head over this.

Last edited by red98vett; 07-11-2005 at 05:41 PM.
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Old 07-11-2005, 05:39 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StewiesMom
http://www.puppyhavenkennel.com/

I found that page by accident. They sell to Petland and Noah's Ark. Check it out.

Anything is possible on the Internet. If they can sell human organs on EBay, I guess the PuppyMillers think they can peddle their goods too.
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Old 07-11-2005, 05:40 PM   #13
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Here is the link to the How to Stop a Puppy Mill article:

How to stop a puppy mill
Actions anyone can take

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Get your facts straight. Know at least approximately how many breeds are raised at the facility, whether or not it is clean, if the dogs run together or are housed separately, whether the dogs have regular preventative and necessary veterinary care, and whether the operators sell to pet stores, brokers, laboratories, or the general public.
If possible, get a friend to accompany you to the suspect business for your safety and to corroborate your observations
Make notes about the conditions when you return home and be prepared to send those notes to the appropriate officials. Be prepared for bureaucracy to grind slowly and to restate your observations several times. Observations, not heartache, not hysteria, not an emotional outburst.
Contact your local humane society and health departments and describe the conditions you have seen as specifically and unemotionally as possible. The humane society can act in cases of abuse and neglect (which in Ohio means lack of food and shelter) and the health department can deal with threats to public health from fecal contamination, dead dog bodies, etc.
Contact: Dr. Valencia D. Colleton
US Department of Agriculture,
2568-A Riva Road, Suite 302
Annapolis, MD 21401- 7400
(410) 962-7463
to find out whether or not the breeder has a Class A or Class B license (a necessity if the facility sells to pet stores, brokers, or laboratories and makes more than $500 annually from such sales). The USDA will be interested if the breeder has a license and is not following the guidelines for housing, sanitation, and veterinary care or if the breeder is not licensed and grosses more than $500 per year selling puppies wholesale. If these conditions are not met, USDA can by law do nothing. No matter how much your sensibilities are offended by the plight of overcrowded, undernourished neglected puppies, they can do nothing.
Contact: American Kennel Club Inspections and Investigations Department
51 Madison Avenue
New York, NY 10010
(212) 696-8208

If the breeds are AKC recognized and the breeder advertises AKC registered puppies. AKC will be interested if dogs are constantly running together, especially if dogs of different breeds are housed together and the business also sells mixed breed puppies, for this may indicate that record keeping regulations are being violated.
AKC is a purebred registry and can deal only with record keeping and identification transgressions; they can suspend violators from further registration of purebred dogs, but they cannot prevent them from breeding and selling puppies. [More on the AKC]

If the dogs are UKC registered, contact: United Kennel Club
100 East Kilgore Road
Kalamazoo, MI 49001-5598
(616) 343-9020 Popular UKC breeds that are not also AKC recognized are American Pit Bull Terrier, and Jack Russell Terrier.
Raising and selling dogs is a business for profit for many people. There should be no stigma attached to earning money by selling dogs; problems arise when the dogs are poorly bred, housed in poor conditions, denied proper medical care, are sick when sold, or are advertised falsely.

Just what is a puppy mill?

Puppy Mill nightmare: Canine victims suffer deprivation and death in nightmare puppymill

Norma Bennett Woolf

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Dog Owner's Guide: Stopping a puppy mill (www.canismajor.com/dog/stopmill.html)] is a part of the Dog Owner's Guide internet website and is copyright 2005 by Canis Major Publications. You may print or download this material for non-commercial personal or school educational use. All other rights reserved. If you, your organization or business would like to reprint our articles in a newsletter or distribute them free of charge as an educational handout please see our reprint policy.
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Old 07-11-2005, 05:49 PM   #14
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It's great to post mile long threads after you just defended the site we all just saw -

but....Why not just do this....SAY NO to PET STORES and in turn - help run puppy mills out of business ....

IF NO ONE SHOPPED PET STORES - THERE WOULD BE NO NEED FOR MILLS. PERIOD.

ALL of us can go find links - but defending and confusing this is not helping MILLIONS of dogs - If ONE person signed onto yorkietalk and sees that ONE post saying that MILL has a good contract and thinks it's ok - WHAT SIGNALS are you sending here ?

Last edited by red98vett; 07-11-2005 at 05:53 PM.
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Old 07-11-2005, 05:51 PM   #15
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Betcha the 5 year guarantee says another puppy of like value and they count on the buyer being so drained and heartbroken that they would rather eat the finances than to get another puppy from the same breeder that might have the same problems.
If they had to fork out the purchase price of the puppy--several times over,--they might think more about their breeding practices..
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