YorkieTalk.com Forums - Yorkshire Terrier Community

YorkieTalk.com Forums - Yorkshire Terrier Community (https://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/index.php)
-   General Yorkshire Terrier Discussion (https://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/general-yorkshire-terrier-discussion/)
-   -   Didn't Realize Puppymills Advertise... take a look (https://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/general-yorkshire-terrier-discussion/11289-didnt-realize-puppymills-advertise-take-look.html)

StewiesMom 07-11-2005 03:20 PM

Didn't Realize Puppymills Advertise... take a look
 
http://www.puppyhavenkennel.com/

I found that page by accident. They sell to Petland and Noah's Ark. Check it out.

MeganS 07-11-2005 03:25 PM

omg you can defenatly tell its a mill. look at all those cages!! they don't have a single purebred dog well they do but thats not what they want to breed. those dogs look a little healthier but they have waaay too many!

iheartyorkies 07-11-2005 03:27 PM

I am horrified!!!

SoCalyorkiLvr 07-11-2005 03:59 PM

Just what is a puppymill? The term means different things to different people. This kennel owner has a 5 year warranty against death from disease and congenital defects. His facilities look immaculate and he "talks a good line" about socialization and temperament as well as his background in breeding. I don't see how every dog would get the attention it deserves but maybe he has a karge staff who interacts with the dogs. I found this link interesting reading~ It has another link to "What you can do if you think you have discovered a puppymill". Check it out if you are interested.
Y
http://www.canismajor.com/dog/puppymil.html

StewiesMom 07-11-2005 04:16 PM

By the formal definition, a puppy mill is a large-scale breeding operation that produces large numbers of puppies for profit.

martym112 07-11-2005 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoCalyorkiLvr
Just what is a puppymill? The term means different things to different people. This kennel owner has a 5 year warranty against death from disease and congenital defects. His facilities look immaculate and he "talks a good line" about socialization and temperament as well as his background in breeding. I don't see how every dog would get the attention it deserves but maybe he has a karge staff who interacts with the dogs. I found this link interesting reading~ It has another link to "What you can do if you think you have discovered a puppymill". Check it out if you are interested.
Y
http://www.canismajor.com/dog/puppymil.html

Thanks for the link. I found it very informative & helpful. :)

SoCalyorkiLvr 07-11-2005 04:21 PM

I guess just posting the link made my message confusing. Here is the entire article reprinted here with permission.

Just what is a puppy mill?A puppy mill is . . . .

The term "Puppy mill" means different things to different people:
Is a Puppy Mill. . .

A place where several breeds of dogs are raised and the breeder always has puppies for sale?
A dirty, trashy place where one or several breeds of dogs are kept in deplorable conditions and puppies are always available?
A place where a single breed of dog is raised in acceptable conditions and puppies are always available?

A place where lots of dogs are raised, where breeding is done solely for financial gain rather than protection of breed integrity, and where puppies are sold to brokers or to pet stores?

All of the above?
The answer depends on who you ask. . . .

A hobby breeder dedicated to promoting and protecting a particular breed or two might consider all of the above "breeders" to be puppy mills. Animal shelter and rescue workers who deal daily with abandoned dogs might agree. Operators of clean commercial kennels, licensed by the US Department of Agriculture, will strongly disagree, for the very mention of "puppy mill" damages their business and that of the pet stores they deal with.

John Q Dog Owner probably thinks of puppy mills as those places exposed on "20/20" or "Geraldo". They have seen the cameras pan back and forth over trash, piles of feces, dogs with runny noses and oozing sores, dogs crammed into shopping carts and tiny coops, rats sharing dirty food bowls and dry dishes. They've seen the puppy mill owner captured on tape, dirty, barely articulate, and ignorant of dog care, temperament, genetic health, or proper nutrition. He's belligerent, too, demanding to be left alone to earn his livelihood.

But is the television crew simply seeking the sensational and applying these appalling conditions to the entire dog producing industry? Just what is a puppy mill?

After World War II, when farmers were desperately seeking alternative methods of making money when traditional crops failed, the US Department of Agriculture encouraged the raising of puppies as a crop. Retail pet outlets grew in numbers as the supply of puppies increased, and puppy production was on its way.

However, the puppy farmers had little knowledge of canine husbandry and often began their ventures with little money and already-rundown conditions. They housed their dogs in chicken coops and rabbit hutches, provided little socialization, and often eschewed veterinary care because they couldn't afford to pay. Animal welfare organizations such as the Humane Society of the US (before it became politicized by the animal rights movement) investigated conditions at these farms and eventually were successful in focusing national attention on the repulsive conditions at "puppy mills."

Puppy mill conditions were a major impetus in the passage of the national Animal Welfare Act. However, as often happens, the appellation has been bastardized to mean any breeder who breeds lots of dogs, no matter what the conditions of the kennel or the health of the puppies. The AWA is administered by the US Department of Agriculture. The act lists several categories of businesses that handle dogs:

Pet wholesalers are those who import, buy, sell, or trade pets in wholesale channels, and they must be licensed by USDA to conduct business;

Pet breeders are those who breed for the wholesale trade, whether for selling animals to other breeders or selling to brokers or directly to pet stores or laboratories, and they must also be licensed by USDA to conduct business; and laboratory animal dealers, breeder, and bunchers must also be licensed, as must auction operators and promoters of contests in which animals are given as prizes.

Hobby breeders who sell directly to pet stores are exempt from licensing if they gross less than $500 per year and if they own no more than three breeding females.

The AWA does not list a definition of either "commercial kennel" or "puppy mill." The American Kennel Club also avoids defining "puppy mill" but does label a commercial breeder as one who "breeds dogs as a business, for profit" and a hobby breeder as "one who breeds purebred dogs occasionally to justifiably improve the breed, not for purposes of primary income."

AKC does not license breeders. [More on the AKC] The USDA issues licenses under the Animal Welfare Act after inspecting kennels to determine whether or not minimum standards for housing and care are being met. They require a minimum amount of space for each dog, shelter, a feeding and veterinary care program, fresh water every 24 hours, proper drainage of the kennel, and appropriate sanitary procedures to assure cleanliness.

USDA licensed more than 4600 animal dealers, more than 3000 of them dealing solely in wholsale distribution of dogs and cats, in 1992. Animal welfare proponents claim that there are many dealers (commercial kennels? puppy mills?) who have avoided the system, and that USDA does not have enough inspectors to seek them out and enforce the law. These welfarists have lobbied for stricter laws in the "puppy mill states" in the midwest.

It's easy to say that John Jones or Mary Smith runs a puppy mill or that pet store puppies come from puppy mills, but the label is tossed about so frequently and with so little regard for accuracy that each prospective dog owner should ascertain for himself whether or not he wishes to buy a dog from John Jones, Mary Smith, a pet store, or a hobby breeder. Here are our Dog Owner's Guidedefinitions to help you decide:

Hobby breeder: A breed fancier who usually has only one breed but may have two; follows a breeding plan in efforts to preserve and protect the breed; produces from none to five litters per year; breeds only when a litter will enhance the breed and the breeding program; raises the puppies with plenty of environmental and human contact; has a contract that protects breeder, dog, and buyer; runs a small, clean kennel; screens breeding stock to eliminate hereditary defects from the breed; works with a breed club or kennel club to promote and protect the breed; and cares that each and every puppy is placed in the best home possible.

Commercial breeder: One who usually has several breeds of dogs with profit as the primary motive for existence. The dogs may be healthy or not and the kennel may be clean or not. The dogs are probably not screened for genetic diseases, and the breeding stock is probably not selected for resemblance to the breed standard or for good temperament. Most commercial breeders sell their puppies to pet stores or to brokers who sell to pet stores.

Broker: One who buys puppies from commercial kennels and sells to retail outlets. Brokers ship puppies by the crate-load on airlines or by truckload throughout the country. Brokers must be licensed by USDA and must abide by the shipping regulations in the Animal Welfare Act.

Buncher: One who collects dogs of unknown origin for sale to laboratories or other bunchers or brokers. Bunchers are considered lower on the evolutionary scale than puppy mill operators, for there is much suspicion that they buy stolen pets, collect pets advertised as "Free to a good home", and adopt unwanted pets from animal shelters for research at veterinary colleges or industrial research laboratories.

Backyard breeder: A dog owner whose pet either gets bred by accident or who breeds on purpose for a variety of reasons. This breeder is usually ignorant of the breed standard, genetics, behavior, and good health practices. A backyard breeder can very easily become a commercial breeder or a puppy mill.

Puppy mill: A breeder who produces puppies hand over fist with no breeding program, little attention to puppy placement, and poor health and socialization practices. A puppy mill may or may not be dirty but it is usually overcrowded and the dogs may be neglected or abused because the breeder can't properly handle as many dogs as he has. Puppy mill operators often denigrate hobby breeders and their dogs in attempts to make a sale.

Unfortunately, some people who are well-ensconced in your local dog scene could be categorized as operating puppy mills. Prospective buyers should be careful to question anyone they are considering as a source for a puppy.

If you think you've found a puppy mill and wish to report it there are several actions you can take.

Rescue worker Linda Smith's eyewitness description of the conditions at one puppy mill are described in Puppymill nightmare.

Norma Bennett Woolf

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Dog Owner's Guide: What is a Puppy Mill? (www.canismajor.com/dog/puppymil.html)] is a part of the Dog Owner's Guide internet website and is copyright 2005 by Canis Major Publications. You may print or download this material for non-commercial personal or school educational use. All other rights reserved. If you, your organization or business would like to reprint our articles in a newsletter or distribute them free of charge as an educational handout please see our reprint policy.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

martym112 07-11-2005 04:22 PM

also very very interesting! :)

SoCalyorkiLvr 07-11-2005 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by martym112
Thanks for the link. I found it very informative & helpful. :)


I am glad. I hope more take the time to read it and even click on the link about what to do to report a puppymill. Thank you.

red98vett 07-11-2005 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoCalyorkiLvr
Just what is a puppymill? The term means different things to different people. This kennel owner has a 5 year warranty against death from disease and congenital defects. His facilities look immaculate and he "talks a good line" about socialization and temperament as well as his background in breeding. I don't see how every dog would get the attention it deserves but maybe he has a karge staff who interacts with the dogs. I found this link interesting reading~ It has another link to "What you can do if you think you have discovered a puppymill". Check it out if you are interested.
Y
http://www.canismajor.com/dog/puppymil.html


Puppymill should NOT mean something different to many people but when I see posts like THIS one - it sure sends the wrong signal. I don't know ONE SINGLE person who would say THAT is acceptable living conditions for dogs.
LOOK At your OWN yorkie - would YOU want them in there ? I bet not.

Not to sound rude - I'm amazed at this post - but THAT IS A MILL. You think thats immaculate ... A DIRT FLOOR ? Long rows of CAGES is acceptable ? Dogs kept outside ?

and the worst RED FLAG - SELLING TO PETLAND.. who is the largest buyers of MILL Puppies ...That isn't enough to convince you that this is a MILL ?

OF course the guy talks a good talk - but NO one can socialize ALL THOSE dogs ...it's impossible - they just WANT OUT of the cage .....They can say whatever they want in their contracts - go try to enforce one and see what happens -

You can bet those guys have their contract written so that THEIR butts are covered and I won't believe for a minute that they sell healthy puppies - PETLAND SELLS MANY SICK PUPPIES - if they get them from THIS place - then let's do the math and say it for what it is - A PUPPY MILL making money off the backs of poor female dogs.

I can't fathom anyone defending places like this - I don't get it at all - those poor dogs have NO LIFE at all - they sit and breed and die. What kind of life is THAT?

red98vett 07-11-2005 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoCalyorkiLvr
Just what is a puppymill? The term means different things to different people. This kennel owner has a 5 year warranty against death from disease and congenital defects. His facilities look immaculate and he "talks a good line" about socialization and temperament as well as his background in breeding. I don't see how every dog would get the attention it deserves but maybe he has a karge staff who interacts with the dogs. I found this link interesting reading~ It has another link to "What you can do if you think you have discovered a puppymill". Check it out if you are interested.
Y
http://www.canismajor.com/dog/puppymil.html

I'm really in awe of this post I'm quoting - I think maybe a personal tour of a mill would stop anyone in their tracks ....and maybe we wouldn't be seeing any defending of PUPPY MILLS on a public site.

This Mill business needs to be stopped totally or regulated WAY more then it is now - seeing posts like this just make it harder for the people working to END puppy mills - I'm still shaking my head over this.

Stitches29 07-11-2005 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StewiesMom
http://www.puppyhavenkennel.com/

I found that page by accident. They sell to Petland and Noah's Ark. Check it out.


Anything is possible on the Internet. If they can sell human organs on EBay, I guess the PuppyMillers think they can peddle their goods too.

SoCalyorkiLvr 07-11-2005 04:40 PM

Here is the link to the How to Stop a Puppy Mill article:

How to stop a puppy mill
Actions anyone can take

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Get your facts straight. Know at least approximately how many breeds are raised at the facility, whether or not it is clean, if the dogs run together or are housed separately, whether the dogs have regular preventative and necessary veterinary care, and whether the operators sell to pet stores, brokers, laboratories, or the general public.
If possible, get a friend to accompany you to the suspect business for your safety and to corroborate your observations
Make notes about the conditions when you return home and be prepared to send those notes to the appropriate officials. Be prepared for bureaucracy to grind slowly and to restate your observations several times. Observations, not heartache, not hysteria, not an emotional outburst.
Contact your local humane society and health departments and describe the conditions you have seen as specifically and unemotionally as possible. The humane society can act in cases of abuse and neglect (which in Ohio means lack of food and shelter) and the health department can deal with threats to public health from fecal contamination, dead dog bodies, etc.
Contact: Dr. Valencia D. Colleton
US Department of Agriculture,
2568-A Riva Road, Suite 302
Annapolis, MD 21401- 7400
(410) 962-7463
to find out whether or not the breeder has a Class A or Class B license (a necessity if the facility sells to pet stores, brokers, or laboratories and makes more than $500 annually from such sales). The USDA will be interested if the breeder has a license and is not following the guidelines for housing, sanitation, and veterinary care or if the breeder is not licensed and grosses more than $500 per year selling puppies wholesale. If these conditions are not met, USDA can by law do nothing. No matter how much your sensibilities are offended by the plight of overcrowded, undernourished neglected puppies, they can do nothing.
Contact: American Kennel Club Inspections and Investigations Department
51 Madison Avenue
New York, NY 10010
(212) 696-8208

If the breeds are AKC recognized and the breeder advertises AKC registered puppies. AKC will be interested if dogs are constantly running together, especially if dogs of different breeds are housed together and the business also sells mixed breed puppies, for this may indicate that record keeping regulations are being violated.
AKC is a purebred registry and can deal only with record keeping and identification transgressions; they can suspend violators from further registration of purebred dogs, but they cannot prevent them from breeding and selling puppies. [More on the AKC]

If the dogs are UKC registered, contact: United Kennel Club
100 East Kilgore Road
Kalamazoo, MI 49001-5598
(616) 343-9020 Popular UKC breeds that are not also AKC recognized are American Pit Bull Terrier, and Jack Russell Terrier.
Raising and selling dogs is a business for profit for many people. There should be no stigma attached to earning money by selling dogs; problems arise when the dogs are poorly bred, housed in poor conditions, denied proper medical care, are sick when sold, or are advertised falsely.

Just what is a puppy mill?

Puppy Mill nightmare: Canine victims suffer deprivation and death in nightmare puppymill

Norma Bennett Woolf

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Dog Owner's Guide: Stopping a puppy mill (www.canismajor.com/dog/stopmill.html)] is a part of the Dog Owner's Guide internet website and is copyright 2005 by Canis Major Publications. You may print or download this material for non-commercial personal or school educational use. All other rights reserved. If you, your organization or business would like to reprint our articles in a newsletter or distribute them free of charge as an educational handout please see our reprint policy.

red98vett 07-11-2005 04:49 PM

It's great to post mile long threads after you just defended the site we all just saw -

but....Why not just do this....SAY NO to PET STORES and in turn - help run puppy mills out of business ....

IF NO ONE SHOPPED PET STORES - THERE WOULD BE NO NEED FOR MILLS. PERIOD.

ALL of us can go find links - but defending and confusing this is not helping MILLIONS of dogs - If ONE person signed onto yorkietalk and sees that ONE post saying that MILL has a good contract and thinks it's ok - WHAT SIGNALS are you sending here ?

whispersmom2 07-11-2005 04:51 PM

Betcha the 5 year guarantee says another puppy of like value and they count on the buyer being so drained and heartbroken that they would rather eat the finances than to get another puppy from the same breeder that might have the same problems.
If they had to fork out the purchase price of the puppy--several times over,--they might think more about their breeding practices..


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 09:51 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright ©2003 - 2018 YorkieTalk.com
Privacy Policy - Terms of Use


1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 171 172 173 174 175 176 177 178 179 180 181 182 183 184 185 186 187 188 189 190 191 192 193 194 195 196 197 198 199 200 201 202 203 204 205 206 207 208 209 210 211 212 213 214 215 216 217 218 219 220 221 222 223 224 225 226 227 228 229 230 231 232 233 234 235 236 237 238 239 240 241 242 243 244 245 246 247 248 249 250 251 252 253 254 255 256 257 258 259 260 261 262 263 264 265 266 267 268 269 270 271 272 273 274 275 276 277 278 279 280 281 282 283 284 285 286 287 288 289 290 291 292 293 294 295 296 297 298 299 300 301 302 303 304 305 306 307 308 309 310 311 312 313 314 315 316 317 318 319 320 321 322 323 324 325 326 327 328 329 330 331 332 333 334 335 336 337 338 339 340 341 342 343 344 345 346 347 348 349 350 351 352 353 354 355 356 357 358 359 360 361 362 363 364 365 366 367 368 369 370 371 372 373 374 375 376 377 378 379 380 381 382 383 384 385 386 387 388 389 390 391 392 393 394 395 396 397 398 399 400 401 402 403 404 405 406 407 408 409 410 411 412 413 414 415 416 417 418 419 420 421 422 423 424 425 426 427 428 429 430 431 432 433 434 435 436 437 438 439 440 441 442 443 444 445 446 447 448 449 450 451 452 453 454 455 456 457 458 459 460 461 462 463 464 465 466 467 468 469 470 471 472 473 474 475 476 477 478 479 480 481 482 483 484 485 486 487 488 489 490 491 492 493 494 495 496 497 498 499 500 501 502 503 504 505 506 507 508 509 510 511 512 513 514 515 516 517 518 519 520 521 522 523 524 525 526 527 528 529 530 531 532 533 534 535 536 537 538 539 540 541 542 543 544 545 546 547 548 549 550 551 552 553 554 555 556 557 558 559 560 561 562 563 564 565 566 567 568 569 570 571 572 573 574 575 576 577 578 579 580 581 582 583 584 585 586 587 588 589 590 591 592 593 594 595 596 597 598 599 600 601 602 603 604 605 606 607 608 609 610 611 612 613 614 615 616 617 618 619 620 621 622 623 624 625 626 627 628 629 630 631 632 633 634 635 636 637 638 639 640 641 642 643 644 645 646 647 648 649 650 651 652 653 654 655 656 657 658 659 660 661 662 663 664 665 666 667 668 669 670 671 672 673 674 675 676 677 678 679 680 681 682 683 684 685 686 687 688 689 690 691 692 693 694 695 696 697 698 699 700 701 702 703 704 705 706 707 708 709 710 711 712 713 714 715 716 717 718 719 720 721 722 723 724 725 726 727 728 729 730 731 732 733 734 735 736 737 738 739 740 741 742 743 744 745 746 747 748 749 750 751 752 753 754 755 756 757 758 759 760 761 762 763 764 765 766 767 768 769 770 771 772 773 774 775 776 777 778 779 780 781 782 783 784 785 786 787 788 789 790 791 792 793 794 795 796 797 798 799 800 801 802 803 804 805 806 807 808 809 810 811 812 813 814 815 816 817 818 819 820 821 822 823 824 825 826 827 828 829 830 831 832 833 834 835 836 837 838 839 840 841 842 843 844 845 846 847 848 849 850 851 852 853 854 855 856 857 858 859 860 861 862 863 864 865 866 867 868 869 870 871 872 873 874 875 876 877 878 879 880 881 882 883 884 885 886 887 888 889 890 891 892 893 894 895 896 897 898 899 900 901 902 903 904 905 906 907 908 909 910 911 912 913 914 915 916 917 918 919 920 921 922 923 924 925 926 927 928 929 930 931 932 933 934 935 936 937 938 939 940 941 942 943 944 945 946 947 948 949 950 951 952 953 954 955 956 957 958 959 960 961 962 963 964 965 966 967 968 969 970 971 972 973 974 975 976 977 978 979 980 981 982 983 984 985 986 987 988 989 990 991 992 993 994 995 996 997 998 999 1000 1001 1002 1003 1004 1005 1006 1007 1008 1009 1010 1011 1012 1013 1014 1015 1016 1017 1018 1019 1020 1021 1022 1023 1024 1025 1026 1027 1028 1029 1030 1031 1032 1033 1034 1035 1036 1037 1038 1039 1040 1041 1042 1043 1044 1045 1046 1047 1048 1049 1050 1051 1052 1053 1054 1055 1056 1057 1058 1059 1060 1061 1062 1063 1064 1065 1066 1067 1068 1069 1070 1071 1072 1073 1074 1075 1076 1077 1078 1079 1080 1081 1082 1083 1084 1085 1086 1087 1088 1089 1090 1091 1092 1093 1094 1095 1096 1097 1098 1099 1100 1101 1102 1103 1104 1105 1106 1107 1108 1109 1110 1111 1112 1113 1114 1115 1116 1117 1118 1119 1120 1121 1122 1123 1124 1125 1126 1127 1128 1129 1130 1131 1132 1133 1134 1135 1136 1137 1138 1139 1140 1141 1142 1143 1144 1145 1146 1147 1148 1149 1150 1151 1152 1153 1154 1155 1156 1157 1158 1159 1160 1161 1162 1163 1164 1165 1166 1167