Looking 4 A Parti Yorkie

[lisatodd]

Originally Posted by Lorraine

A Papillion or Shih Tzu already come in different colours and it is correct for the breed. Why perpetuate a wrong colour for a breed according to that breed standard for Yorkies?

you are so right but is it wrong for me to want one? you are making me feel quilty....aweeee what to do? i see them and fall in love. i don't want to add to the wrong color breeding buy purchasing one. oh well.....i guess i really need to think about this. ughhhhhhhh

[kathy785]

Can't speak for the parti-yorkie people, but the Biewers from Germany cost the breeders that are importing them quite a bit (I know from first hand experience!) The German Biewers usually come from champion lines and it also costs quite a bit to register a litter with the German registry. (it cost us $500+ to register 5 puppies with the IBC).
I do have a male Biewer that is around 10 pounds that is for sale for just $1000. He is house trained, neutered, vaccinations up to date. He was imported and then grew too large. Yes, I paid 3 times that amount for him, I just want a good home. I have turned down homes for him, because I did not think they were suitable

[wnturner]

CAn't help but good luck

[Itspuppyluv]

Originally Posted by kathy785

I do have a male Biewer that is around 10 pounds that is for sale for just $1000. He is house trained, neutered, vaccinations up to date. He was imported and then grew too large. Yes, I paid 3 times that amount for him, I just want a good home. I have turned down homes for him, because I did not think they were suitable

That is a great price for this cutie!! Subtract what I paid for neutering, vaccinations and what I would have paid for someone to housebreak mine and he is practically free!

[Lorraine]

Originally Posted by kathy785

Can't speak for the parti-yorkie people, but the Biewers from Germany cost the breeders that are importing them quite a bit (I know from first hand experience!) The German Biewers usually come from champion lines and it also costs quite a bit to register a litter with the German registry. (it cost us $500+ to register 5 puppies with the IBC).
I do have a male Biewer that is around 10 pounds that is for sale for just $1000. He is house trained, neutered, vaccinations up to date. He was imported and then grew too large. Yes, I paid 3 times that amount for him, I just want a good home. I have turned down homes for him, because I did not think they were suitable

From what I understand from a Yorkie breeder in Germany Biewers are registered with the Biewer registry not the German Kennel Club where I believe they are not accepted into that registry.
I guess prices will command what people are willing to pay.

[lisatodd]

after reading the post on ytca, i have decided not to get the parti. ytca warns not to purchase these beautiful yorkies. ethically i cannot do it since i truly believe in the true yorkshire terrier breed. i do think they are just beautiful ...i would not feel right purchasing one if i wasn't doing it ethically

[Pinehaven]

Originally Posted by lisatodd

after reading the post on ytca, i have decided not to get the parti. ytca warns not to purchase these beautiful yorkies. ethically i cannot do it since i truly believe in the true yorkshire terrier breed. i do think they are just beautiful ...i would not feel right purchasing one if i wasn't doing it ethically

The Yorkshire Terrier breed, began by breeding different types of Terriers and more than likely, other breeds of dogs, mutts and colors. It was the crosses between those dogs that produced the original Yorkie and it's the genes of those dogs, that are still being passed through our Yorkshire Terriers today.

The Parti gene is a rare, recessive gene in our dogs. A traditional colored yorkie who carries the gene, will pass the gene onto 25% of it's offspring. If 2 traditional colored yorkies are bred together and they both carry the Parti gene, some of their pups will be Parti colored. A line of dogs can carry this Parti gene for many, many, many, many generations but it won't be known until a Parti carrier is bred to another Parti carrier.

Prior to AKC allowing these Parti colored pups to be registered, puppies who were born this color were swept under the table, being sold without papers, given away or destroyed. Since this was an unacceptable color (by our breed standards) most people would not repeat that breeding in fear of producing more parti colored dogs.

The Yorkshire terrier breed standards have changed over the years, early Yorkies were a much larger breed than today's yorkies. I'm sure, standards will continue to change but change is harder for some to accept than others. By AKC now allowing this color to be registered (after extensive DNA testing) it has opened the door for future change and acceptance of this color.

Many people have misconceptions that this Parti gene is defective, impure or a freak of nature. Hopefully by educating people a little more about genetics, it will help them to understand and accept this color.

Yes, there are unethical breeders in the world, so buy from breeders with good reputations, get your references and feedback from customers. I'd also suggest to buy Parti pups from parents that have been DNA'd (DNA'd for a few generations if possible).

Good luck, I hope you change your mind and one day find your dream Parti

[FlDebra]

[QUOTE=lisatodd]parti carries the white gene (i believe #22). these are black and white yorkies. the akc does recg these but you cannot show them.

if you go on the yorkshire terrier club of am, it explains the parti. people advertise them as rare and charge alot but actually they just carrie the white gene QUOTE]

Actually the YTCA says there is no white gene in purebred Yorkies. It says "While some breeds have an occasional mismark and some breeds do have a gene for a white dog, we do not. Had there been a problem with white markings, piebald dogs, or white dogs, it would have been addressed in our Standard. Due to unscrupulous breeders advertising parti-colored Yorkshire Terriers at premium prices, our members voted unanimously at our annual meeting to add a disqualification for these and other off colored dogs. ... All of these original breeds were grizzle, tan, blue, blue and tan, or black and tan. No white dog or dogs with white markings were involved in the process of developing the breed.. " and much more on the subject: http://ytca.org/faq.html#C

Don't shoot the messenger......

[Lorraine]

[QUOTE=FlDebra]

Originally Posted by lisatodd

parti carries the white gene (i believe #22). these are black and white yorkies. the akc does recg these but you cannot show them.

if you go on the yorkshire terrier club of am, it explains the parti. people advertise them as rare and charge alot but actually they just carrie the white gene QUOTE]

Originally Posted by lisatodd

Actually the YTCA says there is no white gene in purebred Yorkies. It says "While some breeds have an occasional mismark and some breeds do have a gene for a white dog, we do not. Had there been a problem with white markings, piebald dogs, or white dogs, it would have been addressed in our Standard. Due to unscrupulous breeders advertising parti-colored Yorkshire Terriers at premium prices, our members voted unanimously at our annual meeting to add a disqualification for these and other off colored dogs. ... All of these original breeds were grizzle, tan, blue, blue and tan, or black and tan. No white dog or dogs with white markings were involved in the process of developing the breed.. " and much more on the subject: http://ytca.org/faq.html#C

Don't shoot the messenger......

You beat me to it and I absolutely agree. For those who are not aware, the YTCA is the parent club for the Yorkshire Terrier.
There can be wrong colours showing up in any purebred breed, wrong markings that are considered undesirable. They are not considered 'rare' nor should they ever be bred or sold for ridiculous prices.
No responsible breeder would 'destroy' a pup born of wrong colour. They are spay/neutered sold at very REDUCED prices or given to friends or family.
And yes, it would be responsible breeding not to repeat the mating that produced it.

[lisatodd]

you guys are on the ball.....that is why i love this site. there is always so much to learn
thanks so much
lisa

[kathy785]

But were not other dog breeds developed from these recessvie genes? There are many many colors of Labs. Sorry I cannot think of other dogs, but I know that many breeds have been developed over the years. Yes, most breeders would quietly found homes for the dogs with "undesirable traits," Werner Biewer decided that the white was not a health issue (like patellas, liver shunt, etc.), and he liked the color, so he bred to enhance the color. Werner came up with the color pattern that is now the standard for Biewers. I was told that the ICU would have accepted the Biewers if Werner would have called them something else (Harlequin Yorkies). The AKC recognizes the ICU, so then these "Harlequin Yorkies" would have been an AKC recognized breed. Werner Biewer kept records of each breeding, so it was not just a "let's see what we get" type of process. Each breeder that sees a trait in their brood stock and tries to replicate it are basically doing the same thing, breeding for a certain trait. This is one reason for line breeding, to try to have the traits repeat themselves.

I agree that Yorkies that accidentally end up with white, should not go for a premium price, but Biewers that meet the standards and have impressive show records should be rewarded just as traditional Yorkies are rewarded for lineages with champions. I believe I stated somewhere on YT, the partis are NOT allowed to show, but the Biewers ARE, and they must be up to the standard that has been set forth for them. Partis could be of any quality and be called a parti. There are breeding quality and pet quality Biewers too. Let's just hope that the breeders you contact are ethical enough to charge accordingly. Not all Biewers are worth the high prices you see advertised, just as not all the yorkies are worth the high prices either! Do your homework and ask LOTS of questions before you put any money down.

[Pinehaven]

Actually the YTCA says there is no white gene in purebred Yorkies. It says "While some breeds have an occasional mismark and some breeds do have a gene for a white dog, we do not. Had there been a problem with white markings, piebald dogs, or white dogs, it would have been addressed in our Standard. Due to unscrupulous breeders advertising parti-colored Yorkshire Terriers at premium prices, our members voted unanimously at our annual meeting to add a disqualification for these and other off colored dogs. ... All of these original breeds were grizzle, tan, blue, blue and tan, or black and tan. No white dog or dogs with white markings were involved in the process of developing the breed.. " and much more on the subject: http://ytca.org/faq.html#C

Don't shoot the messenger......

My guns are in the holster! :-)

Prior to the Yorkshire Terrier being an "official" AKC registerable breed, how can AKC or YTCA say that there was never an early Yorkshire Terrier decendant that was parti colored??? How do they know or can guarantee that the first generation of registerable Yorkies, had no previous parents, grandparents, great grandparents ... who were parti colored?

I've only owned Yorkies for a short time but I have been raising Morgan horses for many years and I had my own Piebald Morgan "crop out" in the late 1990's. Two "traditional" colored, registered, bloodtyped, Morgans bred together produced a loud, pinto morgan with bald face, white legs running above the knees, various small and large belly spots. Tracing both parent horses pedigrees back a number of generations, there was a consistent amount of white socks, stockings and blazes being produced on both sides. Luckily, my boy was born a few months after the repeal of the "high white rule." If he had been born prior to the repeal, he would have been denied registration. Morgans born with white above the knee prior to the repeal, were sold at auction or destroyed; they could not be registered.

I was told by a well known, highly respected, Morgan horse Judge, breeder and Vet, that "we will never see a "Pinto" morgan because that gene had been irradicated from the Morgan gene pool", but today we do have a growing number of double registered Pinto Morgans, my guy is one of them. Morgans have been required to be bloodtyped and DNA'd for the last 20 years. The gene remained "hidden" in our horses who had an allowable amount of white, in the way of socks or stockings below the knee. It's no different than the Parti gene that remains hidden in some of our traditional colored yorkies. It just takes that right genetic cross, to bring out the color.

Many of our colorful Morgan lines today, trace directly back to the first and second generations of colorful offspring produced by the foundation Morgan stallion "Justin Morgan" also known as Figure who was born in the late 1700's. Though Justin Morgan was a bay, many of the mares he bred were not - thus some of the offspring of Justin were a "different color" than he was. Golden, gray and dun colors are noted in the first generations of the Morgan breed and those early colorful bloodlines are the foundation of our colorful lines today.

The Morgan horse breed is a very small breed (number wise) in comparison to the Yorkshire Terrier breed. If colorful Morgan lines can trace back to the colorful descendants of the foundation non colorful Justin Morgan, why is it impossible for the much larger Yorkshire terrier breed, to have early lines that originated from anything but black/gold, blue/gold, black/tan or blue/tan colored dogs?

Is it impossible?

Sue White

[tegamom1]

:

Originally Posted by Lorraine

It is an alleged purebred that has large splashes of white.
I am not sure why anyone would want to pay a lot of money for a totally wrong colour for the breed according to the breed standard for the YOrkie, dog.

[FlDebra]

Originally Posted by Pinehaven

The Morgan horse breed is a very small breed (number wise) in comparison to the Yorkshire Terrier breed. If colorful Morgan lines can trace back to the colorful descendants of the foundation non colorful Justin Morgan, why is it impossible for the much larger Yorkshire terrier breed, to have early lines that originated from anything but black/gold, blue/gold, black/tan or blue/tan colored dogs?

Is it impossible?

Sue White

Is it possible? -- I suppose anything is possible. But there are many who have invested untold hours researching the history of the Yorkshire Terrier and have come up with a comprehensive history. The early reports that they were so unsure of original breeding mixes is really no longer accurate. They have a fairly concisive picture. And the picture just does not include any white.

From the YTCA site: "When crafters from Scotland came into England, they brought several ?Scotch?terriers, among them the Paisley and the Clydesdale. The Paisley was a small silky coated dog in various shades of blue. The Clydesdale was a blue and tan dog with the exact color pattern as the Yorkie of today. All of these original breeds were grizzle, tan, blue, blue and tan, or black and tan. No white dog or dogs with white markings were involved in the process of developing the breed."

My personal opinion is that somewhere in the line a dog other than a Yorkshire Terrier was allowed to tie up with the mother. Maybe they also had her bred officially with a Yorkie sire and the litter looked all Yorkie and was sold as such. Maybe the puppy of this mixed breeding looks all Yorkie and carries the AKC papers, then it is bred, its puppies look all Yorkie, one of those pups is bred and suddenly somewhere down the line that rascal non-Yorkie's traits spring up and a puppy is tri-colored. Everyone is in awe as they just "know" all the relatives are pure Yorkie so this must be some recessive gene -- I think it is just the genes of the accidental mating springing up. The owners who think they have a rare throwback are not to blame -- they might not even know that original breeder who let her Yorkie-in-heat get tied with a different breed. I think this is the case for most well-meaning folks. But with SO MANY parti-colors springing up across the net, I am also fairly sure some are intentionally crossing a breed to get tri-colors they can say are Parti-color Yorkies. I see this as a serious problem in breed dilution. But this is just one opinion and others are just as sure of their guess on the topic.

Whereas your history of the Morgan DOES contain the vari-color horses -- the official history of the Yorkie does not. So, that is basically the difference.

[Pinehaven]

Originally Posted by FlDebra

Whereas your history of the Morgan DOES contain the vari-color horses -- the official history of the Yorkie does not. So, that is basically the difference.

I'm not trying to be argumentative, I'm just trying to get people to really think about this, so here we go .... :-)

The point that I was trying to make is: that God did not create a male and female Yorkshire terrier. History shows that the breed began by breeding other terrier type dogs together.

The white gene (parti gene in this case) is a recessive gene and will only display itself if bred to another white gene carrier. So even if history shows that the foundation dogs NEVER, EVER, bred to any color but grizzle, black/tan, black/gold, blue/gold, blue/tan, that doesn't mean that none of those "standard" colored dogs, didn't carry the recessive white gene.

I'm sure there are other lines of Parti gene carrying, Traditional colored yorkies out there but until there's a DNA test to uncover the gene or until the carrier breeds to another carrier, the Parti color will remain hidden for many generations.

Example: Say that a litter of 4 pups were born, one was parti colored. The Parti pup was given away and kept a secret; the other 3 traditional pups were sold with AKC papers. Are the 3 traditional colored AKC registered pups more "Pure" (bloodline wise) than the Parti colored pup? Both mom and dad were parti carriers and if bred together again, would produce more parti and traditional colored puppies.

These two carriers continue breeding, not to each other but to other Yorkies. They will still pass that parti gene onto 25% of their offspring - those pups just looking like a traditional colored dog. They produce a total of ... 50 pups over the years. 12-13 of those pups will be carriers. Those 12-13 carriers produce 600 pups during their lifetime - 150 of those pups are now carriers and it goes on and on. Just something to ponder, I don't think anyone can guarantee that their "Pure" yorkie doesn't carry this recessive gene, unless your dog has produced a Parti colored pup at some point in it's lifetime - in which case, it would have been bred to another Parti gene carrier to produce a Parti colored pup.

Now that Parti colored Yorkshire Terriers are allowed to be registered with AKC, in order to keep honest people honest, it may be a good idea to have several generations of any newly uncovered Parti lines, to be DNA tested. This would insure that there was no deliberate or recent "behind the kennel breeding?"

Sue White