Whoa! Slammed hard, lol!

[BamaFan121s]

Originally Posted by yorkykisses

Yes it is very sad and heartbreaking that a dog had to pay the price of two unethical breeders!

I also might add that a contract is only as good as the ethics of the person/persons signing it.

Wow...I'm really shocked that someone would be so bold as to outright insult the ethics of a breeder and member here. Especially one who has gone out of her way to help so many here.
What baffles me even more is why this topic...which has been brought up, hashed out and caused locked thread upon locked thread is continuously brought up by the same member over and over and over again. And someone who wasn't involved in the situation to in any case. I'm not really sure is there is anything to gain from this, or if it is purely for drama...I'm really at a loss at this point. Because I'm pretty sure that it isn't purely for discussion sake and is merely twisted to even remotely relate to the topic.

But then again, what do I know...right?

[yorkykisses]

Originally Posted by BamaFan121s

Wow...I'm really shocked that someone would be so bold as to outright insult the ethics of a breeder and member here. Especially one who has gone out of her way to help so many here.
What baffles me even more is why this topic...which has been brought up, hashed out and caused locked thread upon locked thread is continuously brought up by the same member over and over and over again. And someone who wasn't involved in the situation to in any case. I'm not really sure is there is anything to gain from this, or if it is purely for drama...I'm really at a loss at this point. Because I'm pretty sure that it isn't purely for discussion sake and is merely twisted to even remotely relate to the topic.

But then again, what do I know...right?

First and foremost I do not know if the breeders that purchased the show boys are members here or not? Secondly this topic does have alot to do with show breeders NOT wanting to help new people become part of the show world! I would be quite positive to think what happened to the show boys and one that is now deceased has already made it's way around the show world, along with all the information and pictures. When situations happen like this one it makes show breeders NOT want to trust any novice! It is the unethical breeders/novice that make it more difficult for honest and ethical novice to purchase a nice show quality prospect! I have read many of the post by "k2p1e" and she seems to be only sincere in her search for information about showing and looking for a wonderful mentor!

[red rock blues]

Originally Posted by Francie

I know of a show breeder that placed two beautiful show males with a lady on co-ownership and the show breeder gave this lady a wonderful chance to make it in the show world! But it was more important for this lady to sell interest into the dogs with another breeder behind the show breeder's back (WITHOUT THEIR KNOWLEDGE) and post them on their websites for stud service. I guess they were thinking of the money they could make off of Champion Sired Stud Service! To make a very long sad story short, one of the show boys was killed while in the possession of this lady and the other one has now been safely reunited with his breeder. I also might add the show breeder had offered multiply times to purchase the boys back. It is sad this lady and the lady that bought interest into the show boys did not have their best interest at heart! If they had both boys would be alive today.

If you are determined enough you can do anything!

THIS POST WAS ORIGINALLY FROM YORKIEKISSES@!
You know....I read this...and although I"m not involved the Show World....all I can think of is, WHO wrote the Contracts for this partnership between the Owners of the Stud dogs and the woman they gave their dogs to?

When all is said and done....the sole responsibility for protecting the lines you've worked very hard to develop is to make sure that any "mentoring" you do is bound by very tightly written Contracts.

And although I certainly don't exonerate the woman who MAY (and I say May, because I have not heard the other side of the story) have behaved in an unethical manner....had the Owners been more circumspect in their judgement of WHO they were entrusting their dogs to.....and further....took the necessary steps to ensure the legal contracts protected them.....it might well have had a happier ending.

It is sad that the only real Victim in this is the poor Yorkie who died....[/QUOTE]
From Francie!!!!
Talking to yourself, Yorkiekisses:?

[k2p1e]

Yeah...umm.. I am completely lost on the 'other' topic that people are refering to...

In this day and age everyone is sensitive to being ripped off, misused, betrayed, etc. The sad part it happens everyday to many of us, in so many parts of our lives. It hurts us even more when it occurs in situation as sensitive and close to their hearts such as breeding for the better of a breed. They are not out for money, not greed, but to do something that will make better dogs, a breed better, healthier in the long run and then some comes along and betrays them...

And then there are people like me...half way across the country (or in another country) who emial for information, maybe I started the email the wrong way, maybe I wrote the email using the same wording as someone who betrayed them before and it stirs old emotions? WHo knows.
I do know that people are very cautious regarding newcombers like myself asking to join this privledge little club of breeding. (I do not mean to offend anyone with my working, just trying to place into words how I feel)
I cannot imagine how many requests breeders must get from people of, Can I buy a puppy..oh yeah I wanna breed her...and the breeder KNOWS these people do not have a clue, and that is dangerous on so many counts.

I do not intend to stir up trouble , I was just shocked by the letter, it hurt.
DO you know what is sad? Is when people tell you need a thick skin to get into showing and breeding yorkies! That hurts because has it really come down to that? I cannot believe that people are so mean, maybe I am overly sheltered...and yet i am learning that people do not mean to be rude, they mean business and they are protective of their yorkies, almost feral.

I was lucky to learn early on it would be VERY dangerous to say to a reputable yorkie show breeder that I thought my yorkies were really cute and I wanted to breed them...so how do I get started?? (Could you see the look I would get, now it makes me smile!)

I have learned that it takes YEARS (I am still not near showing/breeding but it has been 3 years since the idea popped in my head) to get close, tons of reading, listening and you will learn soemthing everyday about yorkies, if you want to...and I do.

It is not an easy road because very rarely is there someone there to guide your hand.
But I am going to resond to this breeder, in a very nice letter, many years from now. Telling her thank you, thank you for showing me the way, I want to prove her wrong and finish my dogs, I want to raise yorkies and then finish my pups. I want to be the type of show/breeder that when someone squeals and says they think yorkies are sooooo cute! And they wanna breed too, I will smile and say, "It's a long road but you will want to do it right, so you can sleep good a night", I will answer the ignorant questions politely because, once upon a time even the very best were the very ignorant.

[yorkykisses]

Originally Posted by red rock blues

THIS POST WAS ORIGINALLY FROM YORKIEKISSES@!
You know....I read this...and although I"m not involved the Show World....all I can think of is, WHO wrote the Contracts for this partnership between the Owners of the Stud dogs and the woman they gave their dogs to?

When all is said and done....the sole responsibility for protecting the lines you've worked very hard to develop is to make sure that any "mentoring" you do is bound by very tightly written Contracts.

And although I certainly don't exonerate the woman who MAY (and I say May, because I have not heard the other side of the story) have behaved in an unethical manner....had the Owners been more circumspect in their judgement of WHO they were entrusting their dogs to.....and further....took the necessary steps to ensure the legal contracts protected them.....it might well have had a happier ending.

It is sad that the only real Victim in this is the poor Yorkie who died....

From Francie!!!!
Talking to yourself, Yorkiekisses:? [/QUOTE]

Oh how funny. You are quite hilarious. Yes the real victim is the yorkie that was killed and the show breeders of the boys! By the way Red Rock Blues are you the breeder in your area that breeds Labradoodles? My sister ran accross an ad in her area (which is in the same area you are located) for Red Rock Labradoodles and was looking to adopt one.

"k2p1e" please hang in there and never give up your dream. I am quite sure that you can do anything you put your mind to!

[BamaFan121s]

Originally Posted by yorkykisses

First and foremost I do not know if the breeders that purchased the show boys are members here or not?

Really? Please see this thread:

http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/sho...t=47743&page=4

I believe it is about post #48 or so when YOU spoke directly to one of these "former co-owners?" This was yet another post where this issues was brought up, hashed out and eventually CLOSED. You were very much a part of the discussion then, just as you are now, and just as you were a few days ago in a thread (also locked) that was started by a member here. The latter of the two, the issue had NOTHING to do with the topic of the thread. See a pattern? As much as this issue interests you, I find it hard to believe that you were unaware of the fact that these two breeders (the "unethical" ones?) were members here.

I realize that "some people just know more about lines than others" as it was recently described, so excuse me for stating this: I understand you have a great deal of respect for the owners and founders of the Exmoor line...and with good reason! They have alot of champions and georgeous dogs--I don't think anyone is arguing that.

I just fail to see why this issue is repeatedly brought up when it is KNOWN to be the center of turmoil. Anyone can look at the locked threads and see that.

[yorkykisses]

Originally Posted by BamaFan121s

Really? Please see this thread:

http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/sho...t=47743&page=4

I believe it is about post #48 or so when YOU spoke directly to ONE OF THESE BREEDERS. This was yet another post where this issues was brought up, hashed out and eventually CLOSED. You were very much a part of the discussion then, just as you are now, and just as you were a few days ago in a thread (also locked) that was started by a member here. The latter of the two, the issue had NOTHING to do with the topic of the thread. See a pattern? As much as this issue interests you, I find it hard to believe that you were unaware of the fact that these two breeders (the "unethical" ones?) were members here.

I realize that "some people just know more about lines than others" as it was recently described, so excuse me for stating this: I understand you have a great deal of respect for the owners and founders of the Exmoor line...and with good reason! They have alot of champions and georgeous dogs--I don't think anyone is arguing that.

I just fail to see why this issue is repeatedly brought up when it is KNOWN to be the center of turmoil. Anyone can look at the locked threads and see that.

The REASON it was brought up in this thread is because of what was done to the REPUTABLE SHOW BREEDER OF THE BOYS it makes it more difficult for someone like " k2p1e" to be able to find a mentor and a nice show prospect. You are quite right about the Exmoor Breeders having gorgeous dogs and they have worked 30 years to have that and I am sure they would give it all up to have the show boy that was killed back home with them again!

[BamaFan121s]

The history of this topic and the people involved speak volumes as to why "it was brought up."

And I suppose this is a "fair" statement to be made about members? Oh, but that's right...you didn't know they were members, despite previous discussions about this issue

"But it was more important for this lady to sell interest into the dogs with another breeder behind the show breeder's back (WITHOUT THEIR KNOWLEDGE) and post them on their websites for stud service. I guess they were thinking of the money they could make ..."

I understand...I guess...you feel the need to jump in and defend the Exmoor guys...I hope you therefore understand why I'd be equally upset by these comments being made about people I respect in turn...

[red rock blues]

Originally Posted by k2p1e

Yeah...umm.. I am completely lost on the 'other' topic that people are refering to...

In this day and age everyone is sensitive to being ripped off, misused, betrayed, etc. The sad part it happens everyday to many of us, in so many parts of our lives. It hurts us even more when it occurs in situation as sensitive and close to their hearts such as breeding for the better of a breed. They are not out for money, not greed, but to do something that will make better dogs, a breed better, healthier in the long run and then some comes along and betrays them...

And then there are people like me...half way across the country (or in another country) who emial for information, maybe I started the email the wrong way, maybe I wrote the email using the same wording as someone who betrayed them before and it stirs old emotions? WHo knows.
I do know that people are very cautious regarding newcombers like myself asking to join this privledge little club of breeding. (I do not mean to offend anyone with my working, just trying to place into words how I feel)
I cannot imagine how many requests breeders must get from people of, Can I buy a puppy..oh yeah I wanna breed her...and the breeder KNOWS these people do not have a clue, and that is dangerous on so many counts.

I do not intend to stir up trouble , I was just shocked by the letter, it hurt.
DO you know what is sad? Is when people tell you need a thick skin to get into showing and breeding yorkies! That hurts because has it really come down to that? I cannot believe that people are so mean, maybe I am overly sheltered...and yet i am learning that people do not mean to be rude, they mean business and they are protective of their yorkies, almost feral.

I was lucky to learn early on it would be VERY dangerous to say to a reputable yorkie show breeder that I thought my yorkies were really cute and I wanted to breed them...so how do I get started?? (Could you see the look I would get, now it makes me smile!)

I have learned that it takes YEARS (I am still not near showing/breeding but it has been 3 years since the idea popped in my head) to get close, tons of reading, listening and you will learn soemthing everyday about yorkies, if you want to...and I do.

It is not an easy road because very rarely is there someone there to guide your hand.
But I am going to resond to this breeder, in a very nice letter, many years from now. Telling her thank you, thank you for showing me the way, I want to prove her wrong and finish my dogs, I want to raise yorkies and then finish my pups. I want to be the type of show/breeder that when someone squeals and says they think yorkies are sooooo cute! And they wanna breed too, I will smile and say, "It's a long road but you will want to do it right, so you can sleep good a night", I will answer the ignorant questions politely because, once upon a time even the very best were the very ignorant.

I doubt you're going to have too much trouble finding a good mentor. Granted, it would make it much easier if there were someone close to you, but it can be done. I've been where you're at, and just beginning my new breeding program. I only have one little girl that is a year old now and potential show quality. But, I have my dream mapped out. There are many good breeders on here that will offer help if you seem sincere, and you do. Keep your hopes up.

[red rock blues]

Originally Posted by yorkykisses

From Francie!!!!
Talking to yourself, Yorkiekisses:?

Oh how funny. You are quite hilarious. Yes the real victim is the yorkie that was killed and the show breeders of the boys! By the way Red Rock Blues are you the breeder in your area that breeds Labradoodles? My sister ran accross an ad in her area (which is in the same area you are located) for Red Rock Labradoodles and was looking to adopt one.

"k2p1e" please hang in there and never give up your dream. I am quite sure that you can do anything you put your mind to![/QUOTE]

No, I don't breed labradoodles. I currently have ONE dog. A yorkie.

[yorkykisses]

Originally Posted by k2p1e

Yeah...umm.. I am completely lost on the 'other' topic that people are refering to...

In this day and age everyone is sensitive to being ripped off, misused, betrayed, etc. The sad part it happens everyday to many of us, in so many parts of our lives. It hurts us even more when it occurs in situation as sensitive and close to their hearts such as breeding for the better of a breed. They are not out for money, not greed, but to do something that will make better dogs, a breed better, healthier in the long run and then some comes along and betrays them...

And then there are people like me...half way across the country (or in another country) who emial for information, maybe I started the email the wrong way, maybe I wrote the email using the same wording as someone who betrayed them before and it stirs old emotions? WHo knows.
I do know that people are very cautious regarding newcombers like myself asking to join this privledge little club of breeding. (I do not mean to offend anyone with my working, just trying to place into words how I feel)
I cannot imagine how many requests breeders must get from people of, Can I buy a puppy..oh yeah I wanna breed her...and the breeder KNOWS these people do not have a clue, and that is dangerous on so many counts.

I do not intend to stir up trouble , I was just shocked by the letter, it hurt.
DO you know what is sad? Is when people tell you need a thick skin to get into showing and breeding yorkies! That hurts because has it really come down to that? I cannot believe that people are so mean, maybe I am overly sheltered...and yet i am learning that people do not mean to be rude, they mean business and they are protective of their yorkies, almost feral.

I was lucky to learn early on it would be VERY dangerous to say to a reputable yorkie show breeder that I thought my yorkies were really cute and I wanted to breed them...so how do I get started?? (Could you see the look I would get, now it makes me smile!)

I have learned that it takes YEARS (I am still not near showing/breeding but it has been 3 years since the idea popped in my head) to get close, tons of reading, listening and you will learn soemthing everyday about yorkies, if you want to...and I do.

It is not an easy road because very rarely is there someone there to guide your hand.
But I am going to resond to this breeder, in a very nice letter, many years from now. Telling her thank you, thank you for showing me the way, I want to prove her wrong and finish my dogs, I want to raise yorkies and then finish my pups. I want to be the type of show/breeder that when someone squeals and says they think yorkies are sooooo cute! And they wanna breed too, I will smile and say, "It's a long road but you will want to do it right, so you can sleep good a night", I will answer the ignorant questions politely because, once upon a time even the very best were the very ignorant.

Do you happen to have a local kennel club or one near by? Even if there is not a yorkie show exhibitor that belongs to the kennel club, they may be able to help you connect to someone that can help you! The kennel clubs are what sponsors the shows. Plus most kennel clubs offer classes through the week for conformation and obedience training.

[Susanbee51]

Originally Posted by k2p1e

DO you know why I never said anything back? Not because I have incredible self restraint but because I am a weeny when it comes to nasty word fights... when someone is totally off the wall and hatefull, I am literally at a loss for words, stuttering and I just back away...very quickly! lol

I like the idea of being at a show with my yorkie and being SUPER nice and reminding her, I may even take copy of the email, and hopefully (God willing) my dog will place better.

Cause you know what goes around comes around...

Perhaps she has been burned badly by someone recently, many times? Who knows?

Don't give up on your dream. I went to the Rose City Classic here in Portland a couple weeks ago. That is a pretty big show. I watched and saw no pettiness among the competitors. They were all laying on their prospective tables pretty much content. Oh and the humans on the other end of the lead....well all I can say is they were friendly and very helpful with other show people. In the last year, I have been to several shows and have found for the most part, most of the show people are friendly and helpful. Especially to people just starting out in the show world. I suppose you will find a few that can be nasty, but that happens anywhere.

It is unfortunate that you do not live closer to someone that would be willing to mentor you. Since you don't, take advantage of any shows that you are able to attend and ask tons of questions. You might be surprised at how helpful and informative they will be.

[mojo]

Originally Posted by red rock blues

Tell her to keep in touch because you'd LOVE to meet her in the show ring in a few years. If nothing else, she gave you something else to work hard for. Kick her butt with a gorgeous baby then politely suggest she might enjoy retirement. ROFLMAO. Hang in there.

That is great!!!!!!!!!!!

I find many breeders seem to be very threatened by newbies trying to get into breeding/showing and refuse to help you in any way.
This person sounds very bitter and I dont see why she even bothered to respond to your email at all.
I think karma will come back to get her some day.

[k2p1e]

I used to go to handling classes with our poodle and my hubby actually took one of our yorkies (she is not show quality) but just to learn for himself...they commented on how it was shame she (our yorkie Kenzie) wasn't show quality cause she behaved beuatifully, attitude, great gait, she 'showed' beautifully...to her is was a great game of walking around a room with Dad! lol This all came from our little girl who only knows one command "sit", lol

I have a friend who is a groomer, show dogs (has for over 20 years and does very well), handles, breeds and is now studying to become a judge. She has helped me in the past and is my best resource, she picks out the little things and explains how to work on it, break it down, what to look for...I adore her, lol.

She is agreat mentor...she doesn't know yorkies intimately, as she calls it, but the show, how to show, she knows like the back of her hand.

[Susanbee51]

Originally Posted by yorkykisses

First and foremost I do not know if the breeders that purchased the show boys are members here or not? Secondly this topic does have alot to do with show breeders NOT wanting to help new people become part of the show world! I have read many of the post by "k2p1e" and she seems to be only sincere in her search for information about showing and looking for a wonderful mentor!

[U]Wrong[/U]. Yes you Do know they are members here. That has been proven over and over again. I wonder, do the Exmoors pay you for advertising?

K2p1e is searching for information and you seem to have a need to hijack a thread for your platform. Quit rehashing things that have nothing what so ever to do with you and focus on the issues at hand.