Originally Posted by FlDebra (Post 3375988)

I don't think that is agreed upon by all. I would not presume to make a pronoucement on a breeder with so little information known. I am still trying to get a hold of the 5-10 litters a year as that is such a huge range. Available help is another huge concept to add to the equation too. If there is a family or even several paid hands helping to raise the litters, then the load could well be spread out thinner than a much smaller yearly tally with one lone breeder involved. Nancy has already mentioned some situations where you do sensibly use an out-of-standard dog in your program. Bringing color back is the one I see most often alluded to. It was also stated that the member "appears to be in YTCA" but that is not for sure, evidently. Not sure why that is a question -- are they not on the list? Yorkshire Terrier Club of America About The Club I would also want to know what the "breeder listing site" is and how accurate their information might be. I just don't know enough about the situation to call this mysterious breeder "iffy."




No -- if the breeder only champions 1 out of 24, then I would not think the other 23 would all be sold as pets. Some would be sold as show potentials/hopefuls, some would become initial breeding dams/sires for new breeders or other breeders wanting to bring something to their line that these puppies offer. Most of the exhibitor/breeders have people who want to get their lines. When they have puppies, they have waiting lists and they are not all for pets, at all. If a new person wants to get into the breeding/exhibiting circle, they have to start somewhere and it is by convincing one of the seasoned exhibitor/breeders that they are educated and dedicated enough to be trusted with one of their puppies. Those looking to improve their own lines, may reach out to an exhibitor they have seen show dogs with the traits they want to improve.

I don't know who is being referred to in this thread, but why the secrecy and inneundo? Wouldn't it be better to ask the breeder direct? I would want to give them the opportunity to explain information gleened from other sources, see if it is accurate (or the result of a typo or something) and hear their explanation. Sometimes a little information can sound misleading and sometimes its just the tip of an iceberg. But I would not make any judgement based on so little info. Just my opinion though! :D

Originally Posted by FlDebra (Post 3375988)

I don't think that is agreed upon by all. I would not presume to make a pronoucement on a breeder with so little information known. I am still trying to get a hold of the 5-10 litters a year as that is such a huge range. Available help is another huge concept to add to the equation too. If there is a family or even several paid hands helping to raise the litters, then the load could well be spread out thinner than a much smaller yearly tally with one lone breeder involved. Nancy has already mentioned some situations where you do sensibly use an out-of-standard dog in your program. Bringing color back is the one I see most often alluded to. It was also stated that the member "appears to be in YTCA" but that is not for sure, evidently. Not sure why that is a question -- are they not on the list? Yorkshire Terrier Club of America About The Club I would also want to know what the "breeder listing site" is and how accurate their information might be. I just don't know enough about the situation to call this mysterious breeder "iffy."




No -- if the breeder only champions 1 out of 24, then I would not think the other 23 would all be sold as pets. Some would be sold as show potentials/hopefuls, some would become initial breeding dams/sires for new breeders or other breeders wanting to bring something to their line that these puppies offer. Most of the exhibitor/breeders have people who want to get their lines. When they have puppies, they have waiting lists and they are not all for pets, at all. If a new person wants to get into the breeding/exhibiting circle, they have to start somewhere and it is by convincing one of the seasoned exhibitor/breeders that they are educated and dedicated enough to be trusted with one of their puppies. Those looking to improve their own lines, may reach out to an exhibitor they have seen show dogs with the traits they want to improve.

I don't know who is being referred to in this thread, but why the secrecy and inneundo? Wouldn't it be better to ask the breeder direct? I would want to give them the opportunity to explain information gleened from other sources, see if it is accurate (or the result of a typo or something) and hear their explanation. Sometimes a little information can sound misleading and sometimes its just the tip of an iceberg. But I would not make any judgement based on so little info. Just my opinion though! :D

Originally Posted by Breezeaway (Post 3376445)

I go to Tsa La Gi website alot and she certainly has alot of litters a year.
Isn't she a YTCA member.
She has beautiful dogs and puppies.
Can you really judge a person by the number of puppies they raise a year?

About Us

Originally Posted by magicgenie (Post 3376439)

I'm surprised to see this question being asked by someone who spends a lot of time on YT.

Originally Posted by Wylie's Mom (Post 3376490)

:) I don't mind being surprising. I hope it never comes to a place where I stop asking questions, even if the questions seem surprising. If I have something I want to learn about from people here, I'm comfortable asking...and I think being here for questions is part of why YT is here. If I haven't gone directly to someone specifically to ask a question, there may be a valid reason ;).

Also, like I said a few times now - the reason for some of my questions is bc of that which I've learned here at YT, from the exhibitors who share their experiences. It's been my impression that they breed very, very seldom - hence, the question.

I guess your question as to 'how can a show breeder start a line if breeding only 1-2 litters a year' is best put to those who do just that. I honestly don't know.

I apologize if my question is naive to some. Breeding is not something I'm involved with personally, nor specialize in. If someone ever asks me a question about what I specialize in/know about....I try my best to answer them helpfully. I don't say "well, I'm surprised you asked this question with the amount of time you spend here" -- :confused:.

Well, Happy New Year everyone. :rolleyes:

Originally Posted by DvlshAngel985 (Post 3376495)

you're not alone. I was under the same impression when it came to breeding. I learned something in this thread.

Originally Posted by Brooklynn (Post 3376514)

Most show exhibitors do breed small litters but your most well renowned breeders that have well established lines are on a larger scale. Look at the Durrer lines, Statford, Parkside, TyAva, Rothby, Pastoral, NicNak, This Time, the list could go on they don't breed one or two litters a year to be as well established and have the number of NICE BIS, BISS, Multi Group Winners nd placements, multi CH's without having more than one or two litters a year. These are some of your top and well respected breeders in North America and Canada. All you have to do is research each of these exhibitor/breeders and they are still actively showing and producing top notch show yorkies with the exception of Rothby with the passing of Roberta! What a great loss to the yorkie world when she passed!

But these are only a handful vs. the majority that can only breed one to two litters a year. Even the exhibitors I mentioned above have scaled down due to their age, economy, and everything getting expensive. I hope this explains part of why some may have 5 or more litters a year due to having maybe at least 5 to 6 bitches. Might I add this....most of the exibitors above are very well off and have state of the art kennels with kennel help, nannies for puppies ect...access to vets 24/7 and spare no expense.

Donna

Originally Posted by DvlshAngel985 (Post 3376495)

you're not alone. I was under the same impression when it came to breeding. I learned something in this thread.

Originally Posted by Nancy1999 (Post 3376520)

Many breeders start out with pets only that they are never planning to breed, they get involved in the breed, and find a mentor. It may take years before a mentor actually gives them a dog that must be championed first, and part of this is probably to test their dedication to breeding. Are they doing it for the quick buck, or do they really love the breed, not just their own dogs, but the breed as a whole? Some breeders have been doing this for over over 20 years, and they have developed their own lines, so they might have over 5-10 litters a year, for a newbie breeder or someone who's not really studied the breed, I would think this number is too high. One of the breeders here can explain what it means to "develop" your own lines, but you can't really put your name on a line until you've bred several generations, I think it's 6, but I'm not sure.

Originally Posted by DvlshAngel985 (Post 3376523)

Now this I knew and really makes perfect sense to me. It's all the different established lines that I don't know about. I'm curious to find out more about them and what exactly makes them so desirable.

Originally Posted by Brooklynn (Post 3376527)

A lot of your great dogs come from Rothby and Durrer...Roberta Rothenbach is Rothby and Betty Ann Durrer is Durrer out of Canada ect...go to Sweetyblu.com and do a research on some of the exhibitors/breeders mentioned. OMG they have produced some gorgeous yorkies along with Pastoral out of Canada and NicNac out of Canada along with Aero out of Canada, Stratford in the US some of the most gorgeous yorkies and some top winning in North America and Canada and all across the world.
Go to Sweetyblu.com and you can find out alot on your research and start to see what lines are all involved and their siblings ect...nice site to see and ooohhh and awwww over.

Donna

Originally Posted by Breezeaway (Post 3376445)

I go to Tsa La Gi website alot and she certainly has alot of litters a year.
Isn't she a YTCA member.
She has beautiful dogs and puppies.
Can you really judge a person by the number of puppies they raise a year?

About Us

Originally Posted by Brooklynn (Post 3376479)

She's "not" a YTCA member...

Originally Posted by Breezeaway (Post 3376629)

Thanks, I guess I should have looked it up first.

Originally Posted by Brooklynn (Post 3376479)

She's "not" a YTCA member...

Originally Posted by kjcmsw (Post 3376628)

and apparently one can be judged by whether or not they choose to show, etc...in the end showing, or # of litters isn't what determines a good dog, but I would agree, for me, I'd rather get a puppy from someone who doesn't have many litters on the floor at one time because it takes time to give each puppy individual time. About the time I think I'm exhausting giving three pups all the attention I think is important to their socialization I hear of someone with 10+ pups (from multiple litters). I think one has to know their limit and provide each pup with as much one-on-one time. If one can effectively do that for three or ten, it is they that know. But at first glance I, as a buyer, would mostly choose from the small litter breeder than the large (with all other things being equal in the pup) just because I don't believe the one with so many running around could possibly be adequately caring for them.
I take mine daily (5 days/wk) for car rides, one day (alternating days) a week just one pup comes to work with me for more individualized time (queen/king for the day sort of thing), etc., etc. It'd be hard for one person with 10+ pups to do that consistently and frequently I think.

Originally Posted by Brooklynn (Post 3376645)

Actually I'd buy from some of the breeders I mentioned in my previous post that probably have more than 5 litters a year "because" I know their lines and respect their breeding/showing program with NO hesitation :)

Originally Posted by kjcmsw (Post 3376640)

Maybe it's just me or the photos but the dogs look pretty big (over standard)??? Not the puppies, the others.

Originally Posted by kjcmsw (Post 3376652)

that's why I added, "with all things being equal" with the pup...which would include their "respectability", "lines", etc. I don't care how good one's line is...if there is only one person caring for the pups, a litter of three is going to get more individualized attention and care than someone with ten or more pups of similar ages. Now litters spread out over the course of year would be different, which is probably what the posts were talking about & I over spoke.

Originally Posted by Brooklynn (Post 3376661)

:) :):):)

Originally Posted by kjcmsw (Post 3376670)

@ Brooklyn: And I should add, I looked at your website and I think you have beautiful dogs!

Originally Posted by FlDebra (Post 3376720)

"But at first glance I, as a buyer, would mostly choose from the small litter breeder than the large (with all other things being equal in the pup) just because I don't believe the one with so many running around could possibly be adequately caring for them.
I take mine daily (5 days/wk) for car rides, one day (alternating days) a week just one pup comes to work with me for more individualized time (queen/king for the day sort of thing), etc., etc. It'd be hard for one person with 10+ pups to do that consistently and frequently I think"
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kjcmsw -- Keep in mind there are always other factors that go into how much time is actually spent on puppy care & development. For instance, you mention taking one at a time to work with you. Many do not work outside of the home and have ALL day 24/7 to contribute to the care of their pups. Others are away a huge portion of the day for work, transportation, socialization, etc. Some have several human children that need to share in the available "care hours." One breeder may devote most of her waking time to puppy/dog care and socialization. Another may see it as a chore to be taken care of and move on to their other interests.

There just isn't one formula that will fit for all. Sometimes there is a family involved with the business so the man-hours are doubled, tripled, or more..... giving the pups even more human contact & care than what you might see in a one person, one litter at a time operation. It just is never as simple as saying it is better to go with a smaller output breeding program. I think that is what is so important about knowing the breeder. Once you really get to know them and see them in action (more than once), you can get a feel for the true contribution they make to the puppies' care. Reputations are built on well-socialized pups as well as those closely adhering to the standards. That is sort of spilling over to the other factors you already mentioned like lines & respectability.

Originally Posted by kjcmsw (Post 3376628)

and apparently one can be judged by whether or not they choose to show, etc...in the end showing, or # of litters isn't what determines a good dog, but I would agree, for me, I'd rather get a puppy from someone who doesn't have many litters on the floor at one time because it takes time to give each puppy individual time. About the time I think I'm exhausting giving three pups all the attention I think is important to their socialization I hear of someone with 10+ pups (from multiple litters). I think one has to know their limit and provide each pup with as much one-on-one time. If one can effectively do that for three or ten, it is they that know. But at first glance I, as a buyer, would mostly choose from the small litter breeder than the large (with all other things being equal in the pup) just because I don't believe the one with so many running around could possibly be adequately caring for them.
I take mine daily (5 days/wk) for car rides, one day (alternating days) a week just one pup comes to work with me for more individualized time (queen/king for the day sort of thing), etc., etc. It'd be hard for one person with 10+ pups to do that consistently and frequently I think.

Originally Posted by kjcmsw (Post 3376670)

@ Brooklyn: And I should add, I looked at your website and I think you have beautiful dogs!

Originally Posted by Rhetts_mama (Post 3376698)

She does have gorgeous dogs!