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-   -   Parti Color? YTCA? (https://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/yorkie-showing-information/211769-parti-color-ytca.html)

yorkiekist 09-05-2010 02:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jencar98 (Post 3261990)
No answer....for my question??? :confused:

Anyone?????
I cant speak for anyone else that show dogs. I have never dyed and never will dye a dog.

yorkiekist 09-05-2010 02:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kpstoybox (Post 3261994)
If he was DNA'd and proven to be the sire of those parti pups, and from the posts I read on here...HE WAS. What would be the purpose of keeping him intact or producing more pups out of him?

We are being told in this thread that it is ethically and immorally wrong to breed or show a known carrier.
Actually, why dont you just call up Ann and Vicki to get the truth, right from the horses mouth, instead of grilling and pumping for second hand information.

yorkiekist 09-05-2010 02:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Breezeaway (Post 3261996)
The YTCA says they are changing the standard to be stricter? All I can say is they better think long and hard before they go imposing on stricter measures. They may soon find they cut the fingers off of the hand that feeds them. No one can predict what lies in the future. Just look at what has come about in the last 10 years with the parti color. What is happening is that now when the parti's are showing up in a Ch. line it is harder and harder to get the owner of the Dam to get rid of them unlike 15 years ago when it was taboo to have them.
If the YTCA wants to protect the standard then they need to atleast converse with the parti/other colors breeders instead of calling them names and putting them down at every opportunity. Nothing was ever solved by not talking.
As hateful and snide as you are at critisizing the YTCA and its members, I would have absolutely nothing to do with you parti breeders. JMHO

GreenwoodBiewer 09-05-2010 02:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raymond's Mom (Post 3261308)
May I ask if any effort is being made by your club to work with the other major biewer club and do what is necessary to become recognized by AKC as Biewer Terriers?

I can tell you one thing for certain.. although the major Biewer Clubs have a few differences on how they see the Biewers.. one thing they ALL agree on and that is they do NOT want to be recongnized as Biewer Terriers! If that's what it takes for AKC acceptance, to lie about what these dogs are, pretend that they are not pure bred Yorkies.. pretend that there were other breeds introduced to make them something they are not..that is to high a price to pay.

Why not start to police your ranks, remove those who are using splitters and do what is necessary to become an AKC breed?


Because at present, to do what is necessary would be to say you are a seperate breed made up of other breeds.. these dogs are not mixed breed dogs.. To prostitute oneself enough to say something like that JUST to gain acceptance into AKC or to have the YTCA stand behind them in hopes of knocking the Parti colored Yorkie from it's rightful place is just criminal.. now to me.. that's far more unethical than anything else stated in this thread to present.

The Biewers bred NOTHING but Yorkies.. they did not breed any other "white" dogs that got loose in the hen house.. I have spoken personally to many German breeders..also to a person who knows Mrs. Biewer and knew her husbands breeding practices.. there were NO "oops" breedings that created these dogs.. they came directly from two traditionally colored Yorkies.


If the Biewer breeders unite and succeed in becoming recognized it will ensure that there will never be a place for parti color yorkies. Biewers will become the white spotted yorkie type dog shown at AKC shows and you will be considered a legitimate breed.
You are sooo afraid of the Parti's that you stand blindly behind a breed you know nothing about.. if it wasn't so dreadfully sad it would almost be funny.

If the Biewer gets AKC acceptance one day, it should be because they deserve it.. and not by the back door just to keep out the Parti Colored Yorkie.. they are one in the same dog.. only one has a bit of an accent and drinks better beer!

Diana :animal-pa

TammyJM 09-05-2010 02:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by yorkiekist (Post 3262007)
I cant speak for anyone else that show dogs. I have never dyed and never will dye a dog.
So you do feel it is wrong, correct? You are quick to jump on the parti breeders, but a little nonchalant about the breeders that dye their dogs. :rolleyes: Why so flexible with your idea of breeding ethics??

yorkiekist 09-05-2010 02:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TammyJM (Post 3262016)
So you do feel it is wrong, correct? You are quick to jump on the parti breeders, but a little nonchalant about the breeders that dye their dogs. :rolleyes: Why so flexible with your idea of breeding ethics??
Because these "dyed" dogs will NEVER produce a parti, a HUGE Dq fault. I dont agree with dying and it is not only done in the Yorkie breed. I can live with a lighter colored dog as long as the other atributes are there. I cant live with a dog that can produce parti colors.

puppylove11 09-05-2010 02:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brooklynn (Post 3261778)
Never said you were an idiot LOL...but gotta love those you hang out with ROFL...maybe you could shed some light as to who you think the best are? You keep saying you've learned from the best, some of us would be interested maybe I don't run with those in your circles and that's why you've got a bitter taste in your mouth regarding the YTCA :)

Donna

You know as well as I do posting names on this forum would be the end of me!

I will state one more time I have only shown and bred the standard colored yorkie! I have never bred a parti yorkie or parti carrier! I have stated the three yorkies I bought from ytca members and at best they were of pet quality and all three are from akc champions. The reason I have a grudge concerning the ytca is because you all preach the standard, but I have seen what can and does go on with a yorkshire terrier before being shown! I have also been taught these tricks of the trade by ytca members. You put down the parti yorkie, when so many of the ytca members enhance their yorkshire terriers in one way or another to be shown! You call this playing fair?? You all preach about the standard, but if everyone of your show/breeding dogs met the standard there would be no need to enhance anything concerning your show dogs! If a parti breeder does the best they can do and are breeding to better their dogs, I have tons more admiration and respect for them!

yorkiegirl2 09-05-2010 02:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jencar98 (Post 3261990)
No answer....for my question??? :confused:

Anyone?????
Yes, it’s deceptive but that is the only way they can meet the standard.
It is really a shame that showing has strayed so far from what it was mean to be and that is to evaluate breeding stock but these days it seem to be more of an ego boosting beauty pageant, where the dog are dyed, flat ironed, top knots teased, ears pinned and the list go on and on and on..

puppylove11 09-05-2010 02:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by yorkiekist (Post 3262018)
Because these "dyed" dogs will NEVER produce a parti, a HUGE Dq fault. I dont agree with dying and it is not only done in the Yorkie breed. I can live with a lighter colored dog as long as the other atributes are there. I cant live with a dog that can produce parti colors.
Watch what you type! You never know what a breeding can produce until the litter is born! ;) I have seen many bad traits come from two champions. How many ytca members show dogs with bad patellas? How many ytca members show dogs with bad bites? How many ytca members show dogs which have produced a genetic health defect? And do not tell me not a one of them!

Mardelin 09-05-2010 02:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by yorkiekist (Post 3262014)
As hateful and snide as you are at critisizing the YTCA and its members, I would have absolutely nothing to do with you parti breeders. JMHO
I understandstand what you're saying. But, what is so appaling is that YTCA is slammed and hated and people really expect the YTCA to change the standard for them, after they behave in such a manner.

TammyJM 09-05-2010 02:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by yorkiekist (Post 3262018)
Because these "dyed" dogs will NEVER produce a parti, a HUGE Dq fault. I dont agree with dying and it is not only done in the Yorkie breed. I can live with a lighter colored dog as long as the other atributes are there. I cant live with a dog that can produce parti colors.
So you are saying that you are okay with the breeders that dye coats? As for your comment, "these dyed dogs will NEVER produce a parti"...how in the world do you know this? Two carriers bred together, produce a parti. And you say the parti is a HUGE fault...it's a color fault....same as other colors that are not suppose to be in the ring, but I guess that's what the dye is for in the other cases. :rolleyes: A color fault is a color fault...whether it's silver & tan or parti. It really doesn't matter how you try to justify it or how much dye is purchased....they are showing AND breeding faults themselves. Yet you are saying that the parti breeders are wrong for taking a carrier into the ring.

Breezeaway 09-05-2010 02:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by yorkiekist (Post 3262014)
As hateful and snide as you are at critisizing the YTCA and its members, I would have absolutely nothing to do with you parti breeders. JMHO
I think it is tit for tat on both sides. But certainly sitting down and ironing out some issues on both sides could not hurt.

bjh 09-05-2010 02:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kpstoybox (Post 3261994)
If he was DNA'd and proven to be the sire of those parti pups, and from the posts I read on here...HE WAS. What would be the purpose of keeping him intact or producing more pups out of him?

We are being told in this thread that it is ethically and immorally wrong to breed or show a known carrier.
You are hearing it from a few. Not everyone feels that way. People need to read the thread and make their own decisions. I can only speak for myself.

JeanieK 09-05-2010 02:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kpstoybox (Post 3261994)
If he was DNA'd and proven to be the sire of those parti pups, and from the posts I read on here...HE WAS. What would be the purpose of keeping him intact or producing more pups out of him?

We are being told in this thread that it is ethically and immorally wrong to breed or show a known carrier.
I think what she is saying about not repeating THAT breeding, is that she would keep him intact, but breed to another female.

Not everyone believes it is wrong to breed a carrier, they just believe it is wrong to intentionally breed for partis.

puppylove11 09-05-2010 02:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by yorkiekist (Post 3261939)
Ethics is still ethics. you are knowingly showing a dog that has or carries a dq fault. The purpose of showing is to have breeding stock evaluated to the stand of the breed. Knowing the dogs can and will be used to produce color faults is, IMO, un-ethical breeding.
There are standard colored yorkie taken into the ring everyday with their DQ hidden! :rolleyes:

JeanieK 09-05-2010 03:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Breezeaway (Post 3262028)
I think it is tit for tat on both sides. But certainly sitting down and ironing out some issues on both sides could not hurt.
I agree, the hateful snide remarks come from both sides. And it is nice when the discussions are informative without the nastiness. But it never fails, there is always one that has to bush buttons. It appears that they are the same ones all the time.

puppylove11 09-05-2010 03:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by yorkiekist (Post 3262014)
As hateful and snide as you are at critisizing the YTCA and its members, I would have absolutely nothing to do with you parti breeders. JMHO
Believe I have been the one to be more critical about the ytca and I have never bred a parti or parti carrier, nor have I ever shown a parti carrier. So if you have an issue it would be with me.

JeanieK 09-05-2010 03:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenwoodBiewer (Post 3262015)
You are sooo afraid of the Parti's that you stand blindly behind a breed you know nothing about.. if it wasn't so dreadfully sad it would almost be funny.

If the Biewer gets AKC acceptance one day, it should be because they deserve it.. and not by the back door just to keep out the Parti Colored Yorkie.. they are one in the same dog.. only one has a bit of an accent and drinks better beer!

Diana :animal-pa
:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:
:bravo::bravo::bravo:

That was bloody good. Apparently breeding partis makes us all dishonest.

kpstoybox 09-05-2010 03:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeanieK (Post 3262032)
I think what she is saying about not repeating THAT breeding, is that she would keep him intact, but breed to another female.

Not everyone believes it is wrong to breed a carrier, they just believe it is wrong to intentionally breed for partis.

Well, what good would it do breeding him to a different female? He is still a carrier. He will pass on the parti gene no matter who he is bred too.

JeanieK 09-05-2010 03:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenwoodBiewer (Post 3262015)
You are sooo afraid of the Parti's that you stand blindly behind a breed you know nothing about.. if it wasn't so dreadfully sad it would almost be funny.

If the Biewer gets AKC acceptance one day, it should be because they deserve it.. and not by the back door just to keep out the Parti Colored Yorkie.. they are one in the same dog.. only one has a bit of an accent and drinks better beer!

Diana :animal-pa
PS Which one drinks better Beer. :D

JeanieK 09-05-2010 03:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kpstoybox (Post 3262044)
Well, what good would it do breeding him to a different female? He is still a carrier. He will pass on the parti gene no matter who he is bred too.
I know what you are saying, but not everyone believes that is wrong.

Breezeaway 09-05-2010 03:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mardelin (Post 3262025)
I understandstand what you're saying. But, what is so appaling is that YTCA is slammed and hated and people really expect the YTCA to change the standard for them, after they behave in such a manner.
I do not hate the YTCA or its members. But the same can be said about the YTCA members here that show the distain they have for parti breeders and owners. Threads can get heated and people get caught up in it. I agree the standard cant just up and be changed to every whim. But the YTCA could be a little bit more friendly and open to questions and answers instead of just posting untruths on their website.

bjh 09-05-2010 03:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jencar98 (Post 3261974)
I don't breed nor show so I'm not comparing myself to anyone. But, I do believe it is a legitimate question and deserves a serious answer, and not another attempt to deflect attention from the question. Is it or is it not deception to dye a coat? Is it like a "white lie" and some think it doesn't really matter?:confused:
Yes, it is deceptive to dye a coat but it is not being done by everyone. It is called enhancing and there are products that can make a light steel blue yorkie a dark steel blue. It is not just YTCA members that do it. Handlers are more likely to do it or a non-YTCA member might do it. Judges are not stupid either, they can probably tell if the coat has been colored. It is not right to think that all exhibitors are cheaters. Yes, there are some that do their best to hide their dogs faults but that is just part of the game, like it or not.

kpstoybox 09-05-2010 03:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenwoodBiewer (Post 3262015)
You are sooo afraid of the Parti's that you stand blindly behind a breed you know nothing about.. if it wasn't so dreadfully sad it would almost be funny.
If the Biewer gets AKC acceptance one day, it should be because they deserve it.. and not by the back door just to keep out the Parti Colored Yorkie.. they are one in the same dog.. only one has a bit of an accent and drinks better beer!

Diana :animal-pa
:yeahthat:

bjh 09-05-2010 03:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kpstoybox (Post 3262044)
Well, what good would it do breeding him to a different female? He is still a carrier. He will pass on the parti gene no matter who he is bred too.
Lol, believe it or not there is more to a yorkie than just coat color. I have seen Stormy in person several years ago and he is a beautiful yorkie with outstanding movement and gorgeous silky coat. Just about any yorkie breeding can produce undesirable trait. You can breed two beautiful silky coated dogs and get a dark cottony coated dog. You would not keep the dark cottony coated dog to breed back to you silky coated dogs if you were wanting to improve the breed.

Breezeaway 09-05-2010 03:51 PM
I think there is a saying that kind of sums what some of the parti/biewer breeders feel.
"We are not interested in picking up crumbs of compassion thrown from the table of someone who considers himself my master. We want the full menu of rights"

kpstoybox 09-05-2010 05:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brooklynn (Post 3261834)
Maybe the dam is the parti carrier because it just says Hylan and not Hylan Acres, it appears to be the carrier because I know Ann always uses the kennel name Hylan Acres and not just Hylan. Just because it was a Hylan Acres sire doesn't mean it was from that sire. I know Ann isn't breeding for Parti's and she's not advocating the Parti's and I'm sure she would have spayed neutred had she known the sire and the dam as the carrier would produce a Parti. DNA would not show a parti carrier as there is no marker for color just as in LS there is no marker. DNA is just to prove parentage and not the carrier. I see the dam's side is the one with the very least amount of Champions so therefore it appears to me the sire's side is being taken advantage of and blamed. But of course this is all my opinion and one can take it as they see fit. I am still not for the breeding of Parti's as it is not the breed standard.
Both sides have to carry the gene for it to be expressed.

manolos mom 09-05-2010 05:33 PM
I cant believe you guys are still at it. This is a dead subject. No one will ever agree. YTCA does not allow Parti's to be shown. Now, this may change one day, but what you guys need to work on are the BYB's that are selling Parti's for sky high profit and exploiting them as designer dogs. Thats what I would be fighting for. Get that cleaned up. Maybe one day YTCA will approve this but that's not the case right now so look what's in front of you and clean it up. Put pressure on those you think are not doing things the right way. But for now, bottom line, the color and the coat are not allowed. JMO and I am not here to argue. Lissette

Breezeaway 09-05-2010 06:19 PM
WE cannot control the public of the United States, just like the YTCA cannot control the BYB selling sick and horrible looking yorkies.

yorkiekist 09-05-2010 06:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TammyJM (Post 3262027)
So you are saying that you are okay with the breeders that dye coats? As for your comment, "these dyed dogs will NEVER produce a parti"...how in the world do you know this? Two carriers bred together, produce a parti. And you say the parti is a HUGE fault...it's a color fault....same as other colors that are not suppose to be in the ring, but I guess that's what the dye is for in the other cases. :rolleyes: A color fault is a color fault...whether it's silver & tan or parti. It really doesn't matter how you try to justify it or how much dye is purchased....they are showing AND breeding faults themselves. Yet you are saying that the parti breeders are wrong for taking a carrier into the ring.
Look. didnt I just say that I DID NOT agree with dying?? What is YOUR problem?
I stand behind what I say. Your opinions mean absolutely nothing to me. And you never seem to "get it". Maybe I dont word it clear enough for you.
You parti breeders will ALWAYS twist the facts in order to validate your breeding parti colors. Most of you have never stepped foot in a show ring. Most of you do not even know any YTCA members or show exhibitors. Most of you only have your facts by hearsay from the 3 or 4 of you that didnt have a good experience at dog shows.


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