Rosemark responds

[TexasKat08]

Originally Posted by RachelandSadie

here we will just post it on here...very controversial thread though.

http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/bre...euthanize.html

Thank you for posting link.

This is referring to deformed or ill pups, not non-breed standard pups. Either way, I refuse to believe any compassionate, caring individual could ever "euthanize" in this manner and asking the question will certainly raise eyebrows as to your intentions, valid or not.

[Rhetts_mama]

It just floors me that ANY breeder, in this day and age, would consider any method for euthanization other than having a vet do it humanely. There certainly is nothing humane about putting a pup in the freezer.

[RachelandSadie]

Originally Posted by chachi

That thread was more abhout what would you do if a pup needed to be euthanized what method would you use. It wasnt about euthanizing a pup because it was the wrong color. And yes it was started by a parti breeder

that's kinda what i meant but didn't say all the way before my editing time expired...(sorry at work)

this thread was controversial, but meant with good intentions i truly believe. it's one of those horrible things to think about but really what do you do if it's an emergency mercy euthanasia? i'm partly glad to see some very good information and ideas posted in that thread about the most humane way to go about this.

[chachi]

Originally Posted by RachelandSadie

that's kinda what i meant but didn't say all the way before my editing time expired...(sorry at work)

this thread was controversial, but meant with good intentions i truly believe. it's one of those horrible things to think about but really what do you do if it's an emergency mercy euthanasia? i'm partly glad to see some very good information and ideas posted in that thread about the most humane way to go about this.

It was an outrageous thread and the only humaine way to euthanize is to take it to the vet and let the vet put it to sleep. Any breeder that does anything but that is just trying to save money and doesnt have their pups best interest at heart

[yorkiegirl2]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

Thank you.


Is this the thread you meant?

That is one discussing ill pups but there were others too
(don't remember the name of the threads) that discussed out of standard pups being put down.
And in Joan Gordon's book she also talked about if you could bring yourself to put down a non standard pup to pet it out.

[RachelandSadie]

and it's not really on topic of killing because of a color fault. it's not meant to be about that at all. but you asked to see it and there it was...

now back on topic. i'm sure that in the old days they did possibly kill the color faults pups and i've heard that if it did happen they spayed the pups and the breeding dogs and found a private and possibly secretive home for the off color puppies. the thing to remember here is that they no longer bred the carrier dogs and the did not allow the pups to ever be bred. that to me is the responsible thing to do.

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by yorkiegirl2

That is one discussing ill pups but there were others too
(don't remember the name of the threads) that discussed out of standard pups being put down.
And in Joan Gordon's book she also talked about if you could bring yourself to put down a non standard pup to pet it out.

That thread was about euthanizing sick dogs, and I've never read a thread here where a breeder recommended putting down a non standard dog, I'm sure old-time breeders did suggest putting dogs down who weren't to standard, and I personally think this is more humane than selling them to a home where they are bred to death, because their pups can be sold as "rare". Too bad the breeders couldn't trust the pet homes where they placed their dogs, obviously some of these pet homes decided to cash in on it. We now can spay and neuter the dogs before placement, but in the past, that wasn't an option.

[RachelandSadie]

Originally Posted by chachi

It was an outrageous thread and the only humaine way to euthanize is to take it to the vet and let the vet put it to sleep. Any breeder that does anything but that is just trying to save money and doesnt have their pups best interest at heart

i agree that it was very controversial for a thread and that the best method is ALWAYS the vet, but I can tell you that if an extreme case happened to me where a pup was born with it's brain exposed and screaming out in pain i would probably figure out something quick to end the poor baby's misery. but this is only for EXTREME and RARE cases and i'm not a breeder thank God so i don't have anything to worry about.

[yorkiegirl2]

Originally Posted by RachelandSadie

and it's not really on topic of killing because of a color fault. it's not meant to be about that at all. but you asked to see it and there it was...

now back on topic. i'm sure that in the old days they did possibly kill the color faults pups and i've heard that if it did happen they spayed the pups and the breeding dogs and found a private and possibly secretive home for the off color puppies. the thing to remember here is that they no longer bred the carrier dogs and the did not allow the pups to ever be bred. that to me is the responsible thing to do.

Not quite a true statement because we know at least one YTCA breeder who is breeding a carrier who is possibly pass the the gene on to his offspring.

[Rhetts_mama]

Originally Posted by yorkiegirl2

Not quite a true statement because we know at least one YTCA breeder who is breeding a carrier who is possibly pass the the gene on to his offspring.

And hence the need for accurate pedigrees so that people who don't want to end up with an off standard dog can avoid breeding with those lines.

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by RachelandSadie

i agree that it was very controversial for a thread and that the best method is ALWAYS the vet, but I can tell you that if an extreme case happened to me where a pup was born with it's brain exposed and screaming out in pain i would probably figure out something quick to end the poor baby's misery. but this is only for EXTREME and RARE cases and i'm not a breeder thank God so i don't have anything to worry about.

I'm not even sure if a brain exposed is painful for the puppy, the brain has no nerve endings. This is another reason why it's important to have a mentor to help guide you along the way.

Post 73 by YorkieRose, was a good post. http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/478248-post73.html

Unless the pup is in distress, you can wait until morning...if it is screaming and suffering, I give it a pill...a crushed Valium and they go right to sleep...I asked my MD for a prescription to keep on hand. I have given a pill to several adults who had to be taken to the vet to be put down when old..by the time we got there they were very calm and sedated...

I have known breeders who use the freezer, but there is never a need with medications.

[Rhetts_mama]

Originally Posted by RachelandSadie

i agree that it was very controversial for a thread and that the best method is ALWAYS the vet, but I can tell you that if an extreme case happened to me where a pup was born with it's brain exposed and screaming out in pain i would probably figure out something quick to end the poor baby's misery. but this is only for EXTREME and RARE cases and i'm not a breeder thank God so i don't have anything to worry about.

With the prevalence of ER vets in this day and age, there is no excuse for a breeder taking the matter in to their own hands.

[chachi]

Originally Posted by Rhetts_mama

With the prevalence of ER vets in this day and age, there is no excuse for a breeder taking the matter in to their own hands.

[RachelandSadie]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

I'm not even sure if a brain exposed is painful for the puppy, the brain has no nerve endings. This is another reason why it's important to have a mentor to help guide you along the way.

Post 73 by YorkieRose, was a good post. http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/478248-post73.html

that post was a good one. that's why i was saying that it was a great thread in the long run because it brought up a very controversial issue and did give some helpful advice in the end. this valium advice is exactly what i was thinking of when i said that there were some good things given in the thread. and i totally agree that the ER vets are almost everywhere now so it's a much much better thing to use them. some people in the original thread brought up the possability of a super snowstorm that the breeder could not travel in or on the rare chance that they lived literally in the middle of nowhere where vets were much further away and there were no overnight vets and something must be done quickly. at least the valium method is humane, quiet, and doesn't require physical harm to the poor dying pup.

[kpstoybox]

Originally Posted by bjh

You keep bringing reference to this YTCA member over and over. This breeder is not breeding for parti yorkies. Yes, she did have a beautiful champion that produced some parti pups. This breeder requested the owner of the female to pet out the pups and not sell them with open registration. This incidences happened about 3 years ago I think. The fault is with the owner of the bitch, not the owner of the sire. If you own a beautiful representative of the breed you do not just quit using him because he produces some off standard pups in one breeding. You just don't repeat the breeding. If it was continually happening I could see him being retired but not because of one breeding that happened 3 years ago. You should know that not every breeding will be perfect. We learn from our mistakes and move on.

How many times have we heard YTCA breeders here say...that no ethical breeder would breed or show a known carrier? It would appear that this is clearly a "do as I say, not as I do" stance on breeding and showing carriers.

And...just so I understand this correctly...since she is not "purposely" breeding for a parti...it's ok to continue to breed a known carrier and show and breed it's offspring? Correct?

And how would "just not repeat the breeding" do any good to eliminate the chance of producing anymore carriers or parti's from that line? A carrier can pass on the parti gene no matter what color it is bred too. A pup only needs one parent to pass on the gene for it too become a carrier. This is exactly how the parti gene has been passed on through hundreds of generations. Trying to keep it suppressed is not the answer to how we should deal with the parti yorkie. It's still there..waiting for the right combination of genes to express itself again.

And the only reason I keep bringing it up is...I would like to know what the YTCA's stance is on breeders who continue to breed a known parti carrier. Is it alright as long as you pet out the parti's that will pop up every now and then? I would certainly like some clarification on that.