Titers and evidence

[Lovetodream88]

Originally Posted by gemy

Alternative or complementary medicine has its uses. Chronic Diseases are not very well served by the western medicine often times.

I don't think I agree with that statement. Many many issues are treated and controlled with medicines that there are no cure for.

[Britster]

Originally Posted by Wylie's Mom

I prefer science based medicine too, but I do think holisitic medicine can still work for some things beautifully. Acupuncture especially can do just amazing things where western medicine may fail...I've seen proof of that in myself and a terrible knee problem I had years ago. Orthopedic docs tried for 8 months to fix it, shot my knee up with steroids etcetera, had me taking loads of anti-inflammatories. Nothing got better. Then I had ONE session of acupuncture on my knee and *bam* I was back running in a few days with a fixed knee.

While it was indeed "crazy" (in a good way), I wouldn't call myself a "crazy" for using acupuncture. (side note: we actually shouldn't be calling people names like "crazies" for their choices, just like they aren't calling us/you names for your/our choices in western medicine)

This! I am definitely somewhere in between the two types of medicine. I see no reason why one shouldn't exist over the other. Both bring good things AND bad things to the table.

My good friends two Golden Retrievers, littermates, are both 10 and the one just got diagnosed with a very bad form of cancer. Their regular vet gave him a week or two to live. They decided to see a holistic vet just to try all options. It's now been over 3 months that he's living comfortably. They are not going to be putting him through chemo, or letting him suffer, but for right now, he's comfortable and still living happily minus a small limp. I say why not? They're using all these Chinese herbs and feeding a homecooked diet that the holistic vet gave them. To me I feel the same way, what do you have to lose sometimes ya know?

My other friends 14 year old Cocker couldn't even hardly walk until receiving acupuncture. It made a huge difference. My godmom also got acupuncture and it helped her when nothing else did.

I think the biggest thing some don't understand is... those of us who may be for limited vaccinating, does not mean we're AGAINST vaccines. I know how important vaccines are. And I think that people can be very stupid when it comes to blindly following these non-vaxx'ers and thinking they're doing good. IMO they're being really stupid and messing with their children's and others children's lives. And pets lives.

With the comparision of dogs and humans though, dogs live on average, 10-15 years or so... with humans at, what, 70-80? That's a big difference. So while it makes logical sense to me that a human, in their 30's or 40's, may have a low titer show up on vaccines they received as a baby (and from my understanding, just because you have a low titer, doesn't necessarily mean you're NOT covered, I don't know, this is why I don't like titers LOL)... a dog who only lives to be 13, should, theoretically still be protected from vaccines they received as a puppy or one year old, IMO.

I would never fault someone for choosing to follow the current 3 year protocol. I really don't think vaccines are causing dogs to keel over and die or anything and I'm sure a vast majority of dogs receiving vaccines on a 3 year basis are perfectly healthy, but I have seen a scary reaction to a vaccine as well, and while it may be on the rare side, they DO happen and I don't think there's anything wrong w/ addressing it. I also know that there is solid research proving that these vaccines last 5+ years.

As I've stated in the past, Jackson received puppy vaccines and then boosted at one year. He's gotten rabies as per the law every 3 years. Bordatella 3x which I won't ever do again. He is now 6 and I am comfortable that he is adequately protected for our lifestyle but I will continue to get rabies every 3 years because of the obvious law reasons. I mayyy get him distempter/parvo boosted at his next vet appt but I haven't decided yet because after he turns like 8, I don't plan on ever getting him done anymore.

[Britster]

Originally Posted by Cherie6446

My vet doesn't recommend titers. I have to get bordatella every year or the groomer will not groom. Also, if boarding is required then bordatella is required. I hate getting the annual shots for Zoey/Jackson but it seems to be a necessity.

Bordatella/lepto/etc are yearly vaccines because they don't work past a certain amount of time. But there are options. I use a mobile groomer who doesn't require all of these shots and my dog is not boarded. Any other vaccine (such as distempter/parvo/etc) should NOT be given yearly. There's simply no excuse for it IMO.

[ironmike86]

If you read up on Parvo says its so easy to prevent. Dogs shouldn't get it. Vaccinations as a puppy nd boosters every 3 yrs is best in most cases. But theres out break in oarvo because ppl think they don't need to Vaccinate. They were developed for a reason not to do it is careless imo

[Lovetodream88]

Originally Posted by ironmike86

If you read up on Parvo says its so easy to prevent. Dogs shouldn't get it. Vaccinations as a puppy nd boosters every 3 yrs is best in most cases. But theres out break in oarvo because ppl think they don't need to Vaccinate. They were developed for a reason not to do it is careless imo

agree agree agree

[Britster]

Originally Posted by ironmike86

If you read up on Parvo says its so easy to prevent. Dogs shouldn't get it. Vaccinations as a puppy nd boosters every 3 yrs is best in most cases. But theres out break in oarvo because ppl think they don't need to Vaccinate. They were developed for a reason not to do it is careless imo

Again, no one is saying not to vaccinate at all. Just that year after year or even every 3 years is not really necessary for a lot of dogs. Yes not to vaccinate your puppies is pretty stupid.

[lisaly]

After going to the same vet who combines conventional western medicine with eastern medicine, I have seen countless dogs and cats helped using Chinese herbal medicine combined with conventional therapies. My vet is often referred by other vets almost as a last chance hope after conventional medicine fails or is too dangerous health wise. I have spoken to many people through the years, and the stories I have heard are amazing. I only travel 44 miles round trip to his practice in Westhampton, but he has many patients from Manhattan, other places in the tri-state area, and even people much farther away. In most instances we have used conventional western medicine with my dogs in the past, but I have used Chinese herbs on my Rainbow Bridge babies at times, and they were very effective. Often times in western medicine, the side effects of medicine can be very harsh. The same can be true of natural treatments at times, as well. I am not opposed to using medications, but I always read about side effects and weigh the health benefits. I am very glad that my vet has the option of using both conventional and alternative medicine. He uses Chinese therapies that have been around for thousands of years and alters them for his veterinary patients. Many veterinarians who use Chinese herbal remedies use the remedies devised by my veterinarian.

I have used titers the past two years with Katie instead of her booster shot. I realize they are not fully reliable. Katie is six, and I will discuss with my vet the best option for Katie. When she goes in for her wellness exam I don't want to take chances with her health, but I don't want her to be vaccinated needlessly. I really have to think about this. The studies about duration of immunity raise so many questions for me.

http://blog.blsvh.com/wp-content/upl...anine-2013.pdf

Duration of Immunity: How Long Does Immunity Last? | Truth4Pets

http://vaccicheck.com/wp-content/upl...ty_schultz.pdf

The conclusion in the last PDFs really interested me. Fifty percent of American dogs have not received vaccines, and only 25% of cats have been immunized. That's a huge concern.

[Lovetodream88]

The problem with "natural remedies" is there not watched and tested like regular medicine. Many can also be considered toxic if to much is given. I would rather stick to things I know studies have been done on and that there is some kind of regulation on.

[lisaly]

Originally Posted by Lovetodream88

The problem with "natural remedies" is there not watched and tested like regular medicine. Many can also be considered toxic if to much is given. I would rather stick to things I know studies have been done on and that there is some kind of regulation on.

I greatly agree in part with what you are saying, and I understand your thought process. I usually don't like trying new medicines until they have been fully investigated and tested. I am using Nexgard now, and that was tough for me, because it hasn't been out for a while. I like to look at long term therapies to see side-effects and long-term efficacy of a treatment. I would not consider myself paranoid in any way , and I'm generally very trusting--maybe too trusting--, but I have been told of instances where the drug companies have paid off the FDA to keep side effects hushed up. It might be only one instance, but who really know? I know that sounds crazy, but it was told to me by a well respected pathologist. Some of these Chinese herbal remedies have been around 5000 years.

Bottom line, I really try trust my vet; I really love him. He's kind to animals, really gets down to connect to animals, and he treats them with dignity. With one of my Rainbow Bridge babies, Kiwi, we went to see him every six weeks. She ran in to see him smiling. I met so many people there whose animals were helped. Herbs or any medicine were never pushed. Since he develops the formulas himself, I feel more comfortable. This doesn't replace Western medicine; it complements it.

[ironmike86]

I'm not a Vet. They set the guide lines. I've had dogs for 40yrs and never had a problem with Vaccinations. Theres always something to dispute vac. They later something that proves it not true. Unless I had a dog that went into shock or a Vet that administers to much Rabies....The shot arent bad. I know some of the guidelines for the amounts aren't good. But this is why you choose a good vet. A Great Dane and Yorkie shouldn't receive the same. Most good Vets won't do that with rabies.I don't know about know but before the dose was the same.

[107barney]

Originally Posted by lisaly

I greatly agree in part with what you are saying, and I understand your thought process. I usually don't like trying new medicines until they have been fully investigated and tested. I am using Nexgard now, and that was tough for me, because it hasn't been out for a while. I like to look at long term therapies to see side-effects and long-term efficacy of a treatment. I would not consider myself paranoid in any way , and I'm generally very trusting--maybe too trusting--, but I have been told of instances where the drug companies have paid off the FDA to keep side effects hushed up. It might be only one instance, but who really know? I know that sounds crazy, but it was told to me by a well respected pathologist. Some of these Chinese herbal remedies have been around 5000 years.

Bottom line, I really try trust my vet; I really love him. He's kind to animals, really gets down to connect to animals, and he treats them with dignity. With one of my Rainbow Bridge babies, Kiwi, we went to see him every six weeks. She ran in to see him smiling. I met so many people there whose animals were helped. Herbs or any medicine were never pushed. Since he develops the formulas himself, I feel more comfortable. This doesn't replace Western medicine; it complements it.

These kinds of "testimonials" are what draws people to engage in all kinds of "complimentary" avenues. I take issue with it because those who are perched in Westhamptom or other very wealthy communities charge a lot of money for their "approaches." I feel some border on having an ethical problem and question the morality of taking someone's money because you know they are desperate and clinging to some hope that probably no longer exists. Often times the customers are not able to afford these greatly overpriced services. I wouldn't pay a vet who mixed up a formula in his basement and wanted to give it to my dog no more than I would feed a kibble made up in someone's cement mixer out in their garage or commercial raw food made by someone's relatives. Anyway, this thread was about the uselessness of titers but I'm glad it's branching into other things that are an unaffordable waste of money that lack science.

[megansmomma]

Originally Posted by ironmike86

I'm not a Vet. They set the guide lines. I've had dogs for 40yrs and never had a problem with Vaccinations. Theres always something to dispute vac. They later something that proves it not true. Unless I had a dog that went into shock or a Vet that administers to much Rabies....The shot arent bad. I know some of the guidelines for the amounts aren't good. But this is why you choose a good vet. A Great Dane and Yorkie shouldn't receive the same. Most good Vets won't do that with rabies.I don't know about know but before the dose was the same.

Vaccines are needed and necessary. The quackery involved by people playing DVM is just as dangerous as the quackery involved with anti-vaxxers and children. Unless you are schooled in Immunology or SCIENCE Veterinary Medicine with a diploma other than from the school of Google "you" are the reason that doctors and vets alike do --->>>>> behind your backs. Believe me when I say ------>>>>> and head shaking is done after you are in the office arguing your pointless misinformation. It really amazes me just how smart some people think they are regarding what they know is a lie.

[megansmomma]

Originally Posted by 107barney

These kinds of "testimonials" are what draws people to engage in all kinds of "complimentary" avenues. I take issue with it because those who are perched in Westhamptom or other very wealthy communities charge a lot of money for their "approaches." I feel some border on having an ethical problem and question the morality of taking someone's money because you know they are desperate and clinging to some hope that probably no longer exists. Often times the customers are not able to afford these greatly overpriced services. I wouldn't pay a vet who mixed up a formula in his basement and wanted to give it to my dog no more than I would feed a kibble made up in someone's cement mixer out in their garage or commercial raw food made by someone's relatives. Anyway, this thread was about the uselessness of titers but I'm glad it's branching into other things that are an unaffordable waste of money that lack science.

Kind of reminds me of the women that are so desperate to have a J-Lo but and have chalk, window silicone and other remedies injected into the rears.

Let's not forget about our friend Skeptvet. He's got an entire section on just this subject. Acupuncture | The SkeptVet

[megansmomma]

Sitting in CVS MinuteClinicto get a TDap vaccine. It's required to enter one of the hospitals that I work out of regularly. They are not requiring all Vendor Reps to have it or they will be denied entry. Then I'm on my way to have my TB skin test read. End of story.

[pstinard]

Here are the 2011 American Animal Hospital Association canine vaccination guidelines:

http://www.bcappaloosas.com/Documents/Caninevac.pdf

They are not behind a paywall, but the most interesting tables are printed sideways and difficult to read on a small computer screen