What to feed for optimal health

[Lovetodream88]

Originally Posted by mimimomo

Obviously, not all dogs will thrive on raw food...some will need prescription food, some will need low protein, some low fat & so on. It will depend on how your individual dog does on the diet, their current state of health & your comfort level.

When I say raw is the BEST food, I mean it is a species appropriate food, when it is balanced. Then, it's premade raw food, a balanced home cooked diet, human grade canned food & kibble, premium canned & kibble (not from big box stores), RX canned & kibble, canned & kibble from grocery stores & then it's semi-moist foods. Lastly, the worse food we can give our dogs is an unbalanced diet, be it raw or home cooked. This is from Dr. Becker, link w/video below. I know some of you are not fans of Mercola in general & since Dr. Becker is associated w/it, but I believe her teachings & follow her beliefs (also Dr. Dodds, who's link is below too). Lolll I swear, dog food is like religion...so controversial!

The Best and Worst Pet Foods

__________________________________________________ _________________

Dr. Jean Dodds' Pet Health Resource Blog | Raw versus Cooked Foods: Perhaps the Most Controversial Current Topic in the Pet World (Part I)

Nutritionally, raw diets are the most wholesome, followed by dehydrated, freeze-dried and fresh, home cooked, properly balanced diets. Premium quality commercial kibbled and canned food diets are the next tier of the pet food chain, especially those that are grain- or gluten- free.

Honestly I don't think you can say raw is better then others or the best when one of the vet associations is telling there vets to be against it. It also has the highest risks then any of the other types except maybe unbalanced. There are many vets against raw. It is your opinion raw is best and maybe some vets and some other people but it's still an opinion not a fact.

[Lovetodream88]

Originally Posted by 107barney

You're correct that some of is aren't Becker fans. Ditto for Dodds. I do agree there is a cult-like Dodds and Becker following out there that I can't comprehend.

I ditto that Cathy. I am really not a Dodds fan.

[mimimomo]

I'm a huge fan of Dr. Dodds. Her NutriScan test literally saved Turbo's life. He was throwing up so much & w/out that test, I would've never figured out that he can't have chicken, turkey, white fish & venison. So yes, I'm a big fan. She also does so much research on vaccines & there's a rumor that she's working on the appropriate dosage for small dogs. I bow down to her, it is my country's custom greeting.

Originally Posted by Lovetodream88

Honestly I don't think you can say raw is better then others or the best when one of the vet associations is telling there vets to be against it. It also has the highest risks then any of the other types except maybe unbalanced. There are many vets against raw. It is your opinion raw is best and maybe some vets and some other people but it's still an opinion not a fact.

Did you know that the meats we buy in grocery stores have salmonella too? It's just that we cook it b4 we eat it, but dogs can handle the bacteria, their stomach acid kills it.

I read a lot, I love reading, esp when it comes to my dogs. I research a lot, for my dogs. Yes, there's pros & cons to just about everything, that's why it took me over a year to feed them 100% premade raw. I still can't go raw raw...not @ that level yet. But hope to be.

This is a very good read, very informational & easy to understand...by Dr. Dodds: Dr. Jean Dodds' Pet Health Resource Blog | Raw versus Cooked Foods: Perhaps the Most Controversial Current Topic in the Pet World (Part I)
26th Oct 2012 | 13 notes


Raw versus Cooked Foods: Perhaps the Most Controversial Current Topic in the Pet World (Part I)

As feeding raw has increased in popularity over the past decade, so has the debate about whether a raw diet is more beneficial than a cooked or commercially prepared diet and whether feeding raw food to our companion animals is safe. This debate has become even more polarized in recent months with position statements issued by the American Veterinary Medical Association (AVMA) and the American Animal Hospital Association (AAHA), the two primary small animal veterinary medical associations in the United States. The statements issued by these organizations make it clear they are against the feeding of a raw food diet to our companion animals. The AVMA and AAHA cite safety concerns – not just for the animals, but for the people in the households, as well as the public at large. The AVMA FAQs explain its rationale.
So, given these strong positions, what is my take on the issues surrounding the raw diet controversy? Let’s take a look at some facts:

Fact: Many of us in the veterinary community, including myself, have seen first-hand the health and vigor of dogs and cats fed raw diets. These animals just ‘shine’ in all respects. While these observations are shared by a growing number of animal health care professionals as well as experienced dog and cat fanciers, they could be considered as merely anecdotal. Perhaps so, but I consider them experiential findings based on years of observations by many dedicated professionals in the holistic veterinary field. I believe, therefore, that to criticize all raw diets on the basis that they are inherently harmful is misleading, and conveys an inflexible message.

Fact: Veterinarians speaking on behalf of the AVMA have stated that the commercial pet food industry has a ‘zero-tolerance’ policy for Salmonella in kibbled products, creating the impression that this same zero-tolerance would not pertain to commercial raw diets. This is false.
Whereas the USDA actually has an acceptable threshold of Salmonella in meat sold for human consumption (Yes, that’s correct! You could be buying Salmonella-contaminated beef or poultry for your family!), it is the FDA’s Center for Veterinary Medicine that controls the pet food industry, and this organization mandates a zero-tolerance policy of Salmonella for all pet foods, not just ‘cooked’ products.
As anyone who follows pet food recalls knows, commercially produced kibbled products and treats are recalled on a regular basis due to contamination with Salmonella and E. coli (Campylobacter is also of concern).

Fact: Larger producers of raw pet foods incorporate a ‘kill-step’ into their production process to eliminate pathogens while creating the least impact on the food’s enzymes, proteins and other nutrients. One such method involves high pressure processing (HPP), which works by using intense pressure rather than heat to kill the pathogens including E. coli, Salmonella and Listeria. HPP also kills yeasts and molds.
These raw food manufacturers also test each batch of food before releasing it into the marketplace. As per the FDA’s zero-tolerance policy for all pet foods (including raw foods), these products must test negative for pathogens before they go out. Any raw food manufacturer that releases food with Salmonella in the product is not abiding by the FDA’s regulatory guidelines.
That said, there are many “mom and pop” producers of raw foods, and these companies may not employ a ‘kill step’ to eliminate pathogens, or fail to test each batch of their product to ensure it is pathogen-free. So, prior to feeding your pet any raw food, be sure to contact the manufacturer and ask them what steps they take to ensure your pet’s food is free of Salmonella and other pathogens.
It is true that not all animals thrive on raw diets (or any specific diet, for that matter), and not all animals can tolerate them, especially if they have a history of bowel disorders. In addition, people feeding a raw diet to their pets must follow common sense hygienic procedures to avoid potential contamination of utensils and surfaces and to ensure the safety of the humans in the household.
Nutritionally, raw diets are the most wholesome, followed by dehydrated, freeze-dried and fresh, home cooked, properly balanced diets. Premium quality commercial kibbled and canned food diets are the next tier of the pet food chain, especially those that are grain- or gluten- free.
While the recent position statements of the AVMA and AAHA have angered many people dedicated to feeding their pets a raw diet, it is important to understand that these statements in no way limit your rights – that is, unless your pet is a therapy dog or cat. Many raw-fed therapy animals are no longer welcome in hospitals, nursing homes or other such facilities due to the potential increased risk of illness for seniors or those with compromised immune systems.

Finally, remember that pets (and people) can be carriers of bacterial pathogens like Salmonella, E.coli and Campylobacter whether they eat raw, cooked or kibbled meats. Our bodies and excrement are never sterile, nor were they intended to be!

[Lovetodream88]

I still see it as an opinion. I have seen and heard of some not so healthy dogs who eat raw or did but had to be pulled off because they weren't doing well. It's a myth that dogs can not get salmonella because they can many dogs where reported sick when there was a big dry dog food recall a while back and salmonella was the cause.

[Lovetodream88]

Honestly this is all I need to scratch raw off my list https://www.avma.org/News/JAVMANews/Pages/121015l.aspx.

[mimimomo]

Y'all that's against raw feeding that posted here are against it, I get that. But what I don't understand is that there are some of us here that do feed raw (me, premade raw) & we can't even discuss that here w/out the same people picketing the raw threads. What someone chooses to feed is their choice & I feel like EVERY raw thread becomes a shush thread, a big debate thread, the most controversial subject thread & eventually dies...like we can't even discuss the many positive health benefits from feeding raw?

So here goes...

My dogs' hair is so shiny, Momo doesn't even tangle anymore w/his soft hair. They have so much energy, Mimi lost a little weight (she needed to) but hasn't lost any muscle mass, Princess' allergies or itchies & seborrhea is gone (she had many skin & ear issues, including yeast, that's gone too), Turbo hasn't thrown up from food intolerance (also Thanks to Dr Dodds' NutriScan test). They sit, stand on hind legs, beg, whine, twirl & get excited for every meal...basically, my dogs are doing excellent. I can go on & on. They had more health & digestive problems on canned & kibble!
Yes, it's not for every dog, so do your research.

[Lovetodream88]

Originally Posted by mimimomo

Y'all that's against raw feeding that posted here are against it, I get that. But what I don't understand is that there are some of us here that do feed raw (me, premade raw) & we can't even discuss that here w/out the same people picketing the raw threads. What someone chooses to feed is their choice & I feel like EVERY raw thread becomes a shush thread, a big debate thread, the most controversial subject thread & eventually dies...like we can't even discuss the many positive health benefits from feeding raw?

So here goes...

My dogs' hair is so shiny, Momo doesn't even tangle anymore w/his soft hair. They have so much energy, Mimi lost a little weight (she needed to) but hasn't lost any muscle mass, Princess' allergies or itchies & seborrhea is gone (she had many skin & ear issues, including yeast, that's gone too), Turbo hasn't thrown up from food intolerance (also Thanks to Dr Dodds' NutriScan test). They sit, stand on hind legs, beg, whine, twirl & get excited for every meal...basically, my dogs are doing excellent. I can go on & on. They had more health & digestive problems on canned & kibble!
Yes, it's not for every dog, so do your research.

I just think people reading need to see both sides. There are people who get he same results from home cooking and some from even dry food. I just don't think what vets are saying should be poo pooed. If you post something your gonna get people posting bad about and good about and that happens with anything. I had more problem with saying raw is the best as a fact when it's not a fact just an opinion. When a vet assoseation makes a statement that strong it's something to take notice of.

[mimimomo]

Originally Posted by Lovetodream88

I just think people reading need to see both sides. There are people who get he same results from home cooking and some from even dry food. I just don't think what vets are saying should be poo pooed. If you post something your gonna get people posting bad about and good about and that happens with anything. I had more problem with saying raw is the best as a fact when it's not a fact just an opinion. When a vet assoseation makes a statement that strong it's something to take notice of.

It is a fact. Cats & Dogs were not designed to eat kibble. Poo poo who? Y'all are the ones poo pooing Dr Becker & Dodds, who happen to be veterinarians also! Yes, opinions from both side are good, that's what online forums are about, but I see this all the time on raw threads, like it can't even be discussed. You can join the discussion, learn & contribute what you can, even oppose it strongly. But if it's done repeatedly, over & over after every post I or someone pro raw makes, it gets exhausting.

[ladyjane]

Jenny, the issue is not that you feed raw or that you post about it. It becomes an issue when you claim it is the "best food you can give your dog". You have to realize that when you say something like that, someone is going to speak out against it. You and the OP went so far as to claim that your feeding choices for your pups are the only right ones....the only healthy ones for our pups and I strongly disagree.

As to who you follow....you have to know that the vets you are talking about are in the minority in their beliefs. The claim about salmonella not being a problem is just not true. Animals and humans can be sickened by it. Every single bite of raw food does not necessarily have that risk, but the risk is there nonetheless. I know plenty of people who eat caesar salad and have no problems....eat rare roast beef and no problems....it only takes one bite, one time. Trust me, I have eaten rare meat all my life and I contracted salmonella from rare roast beef (handling issue at the packaging facility).

No one is stalking the raw threads. I have seen plenty of them with no comments from other people who feed other foods....I think the issue is brought on by claims of it being the only choice. It simply is not. I know that you are aware of that. You have said it is up to individuals....so when you tout it as the best, you are welcoming opposing opinions.

I have met plenty of people who have had to stop feeding raw for various reasons....but then again, I have seen people stop feeding other foods as well. We each do what we feel is best for our personal pups.

As I said previously, I will put all of my pups next to yours and anyone else's and I can guarantee that you would not have a clue as to which one was being fed what food.

[107barney]

Originally Posted by ladyjane

Jenny, the issue is not that you feed raw or that you post about it. It becomes an issue when you claim it is the "best food you can give your dog". You have to realize that when you say something like that, someone is going to speak out against it. You and the OP went so far as to claim that your feeding choices for your pups are the only right ones....the only healthy ones for our pups and I strongly disagree.

As to who you follow....you have to know that the vets you are talking about are in the minority in their beliefs. The claim about salmonella not being a problem is just not true. Animals and humans can be sickened by it. Every single bite of raw food does not necessarily have that risk, but the risk is there nonetheless. I know plenty of people who eat caesar salad and have no problems....eat rare roast beef and no problems....it only takes one bite, one time. Trust me, I have eaten rare meat all my life and I contracted salmonella from rare roast beef (handling issue at the packaging facility).

No one is stalking the raw threads. I have seen plenty of them with no comments from other people who feed other foods....I think the issue is brought on by claims of it being the only choice. It simply is not. I know that you are aware of that. You have said it is up to individuals....so when you tout it as the best, you are welcoming opposing opinions.

I have met plenty of people who have had to stop feeding raw for various reasons....but then again, I have seen people stop feeding other foods as well. We each do what we feel is best for our personal pups.

As I said previously, I will put all of my pups next to yours and anyone else's and I can guarantee that you would not have a clue as to which one was being fed what food.

I agree completely that you cannot tell one dog from the next based on what they are eating so long as the dog is cared for and feeding something balanced. I have a good friend who feeds premade raw and I think the dogs are lovely -- just like my dogs are! They have similar concerns to any other young dog of the same age and breed. My friend chooses raw because it is most in line with her personal belief system. I respect her choices and she mine, and we agree to disagree.

But, to say that raw is "BEST" and downgrade other feeding methods is where I diverge in the thinking. I'm not a fan of holistic vets or and certainly would not bow down to anyone. I just don't believe in some of their conclusions or conjecture, and neither does the majority of the veterinary world. The nutriscan test is not something I would purchase because I don't agree with the methodology for testing and I can do a food elimination diet without paying for a test with questionable validity not accepted by the rest of the veterinary community.

I am always happy when an owner finds a solution for their dogs that he/she feels happy about and successful with. Raw feeders are not the only ones who have dogs that jump up for treats and food, have shiny coats and sparkling eyes, and clean teeth. Each dog is an individual, and each owner is its decision-maker. Do what makes you happy and what works for you.

[mimimomo]

I will try to explain again...I did not say that raw food is the BEST...Dr. Becker, Dodds, Picarin (& the list goes on) did. I just think & believe that they are correct. I don't even feed raw food, not even sure if I ever will be comfortable w/it, but I do believe that it's a species appropriate diet. It is considered the best pet food bc cats & dogs can digest the fresh meats easily & they get the enzymes & amino acids that the fresh whole foods provide.

Home cooking is not considered the best bc it's cooked (but it's still good!). So the vitamins & minerals need to be added to make it balanced. I would rather have the vitamin & mineral sources come from fresh whole fruits & veggies. But not everyone can feed that way everyday, I sure can't.

I'm not slamming any particular food, you can feed whatever you want to your pets. When my guys were eating Canine Caviar, they were doing great! It really helped w/Princess' yeast issues bc it didn't have too much carbs (no potatoes). But Momo's hair was so dull & the vet even gave me fish oil to add to his diet. So what works for 1 dog, will not be so great for others. I'm just spreading the knowledge of what's best & worst on the pet food chain. You can choose to believe it or not, it's up to you...as long as it's balanced.

[Lovetodream88]

Originally Posted by ladyjane

Jenny, the issue is not that you feed raw or that you post about it. It becomes an issue when you claim it is the "best food you can give your dog". You have to realize that when you say something like that, someone is going to speak out against it. You and the OP went so far as to claim that your feeding choices for your pups are the only right ones....the only healthy ones for our pups and I strongly disagree.

As to who you follow....you have to know that the vets you are talking about are in the minority in their beliefs. The claim about salmonella not being a problem is just not true. Animals and humans can be sickened by it. Every single bite of raw food does not necessarily have that risk, but the risk is there nonetheless. I know plenty of people who eat caesar salad and have no problems....eat rare roast beef and no problems....it only takes one bite, one time. Trust me, I have eaten rare meat all my life and I contracted salmonella from rare roast beef (handling issue at the packaging facility).

No one is stalking the raw threads. I have seen plenty of them with no comments from other people who feed other foods....I think the issue is brought on by claims of it being the only choice. It simply is not. I know that you are aware of that. You have said it is up to individuals....so when you tout it as the best, you are welcoming opposing opinions.

I have met plenty of people who have had to stop feeding raw for various reasons....but then again, I have seen people stop feeding other foods as well. We each do what we feel is best for our personal pups.

As I said previously, I will put all of my pups next to yours and anyone else's and I can guarantee that you would not have a clue as to which one was being fed what food.

That is exactly what my problem is and what I was trying to say. It's not a fact that feeding raw is the best it's an opinion.

[Lovetodream88]

Originally Posted by mimimomo

It is a fact. Cats & Dogs were not designed to eat kibble. Poo poo who? Y'all are the ones poo pooing Dr Becker & Dodds, who happen to be veterinarians also! Yes, opinions from both side are good, that's what online forums are about, but I see this all the time on raw threads, like it can't even be discussed. You can join the discussion, learn & contribute what you can, even oppose it strongly. But if it's done repeatedly, over & over after every post I or someone pro raw makes, it gets exhausting.

No it's not a fact that raw is the best. I'm talking about poo pooing the whole AVMA. The only thing I keep repeating is that it's an opinion that raw food is the best not a fact because you keep saying it is fact. It's not about feeding the raw it's about putting all the info out there about it even the bad and about what is truely an opinion not facts. If you choose to feed raw that your choice but it's not a fact that it's the best or the only way to go there are people who put just as much time researching foods who feed there dog home cooked, dry food, and prescription food.

[mimimomo]

Originally Posted by Lovetodream88

That is exactly what my problem is and what I was trying to say. It's not a fact that feeding raw is the best it's an opinion.

It is a fact that cats & dogs can digest fresh raw meats easier. It is the scientific digestion system of cats & dogs...how can that be opinion?!

[Lovetodream88]

Originally Posted by mimimomo

I will try to explain again...I did not say that raw food is the BEST...Dr. Becker, Dodds, Picarin (& the list goes on) did. I just think & believe that they are correct. I don't even feed raw food, not even sure if I ever will be comfortable w/it, but I do believe that it's a species appropriate diet. It is considered the best pet food bc cats & dogs can digest the fresh meats easily & they get the enzymes & amino acids that the fresh whole foods provide.

Home cooking is not considered the best bc it's cooked (but it's still good!). So the vitamins & minerals need to be added to make it balanced. I would rather have the vitamin & mineral sources come from fresh whole fruits & veggies. But not everyone can feed that way everyday, I sure can't.

I'm not slamming any particular food, you can feed whatever you want to your pets. When my guys were eating Canine Caviar, they were doing great! It really helped w/Princess' yeast issues bc it didn't have too much carbs (no potatoes). But Momo's hair was so dull & the vet even gave me fish oil to add to his diet. So what works for 1 dog, will not be so great for others. I'm just spreading the knowledge of what's best & worst on the pet food chain. You can choose to believe it or not, it's up to you...as long as it's balanced.

It's still those vets and peoples opinions that it's the best I could list vets who think it's not. Dogs are not like they where they have been domesticated and there systems have evolved just like most things. Do you think cave men knew to cook there food? I doubt it and I bet it didn't make them sick either but now our bodies have evolved and it will make us sick.