purina EN questionable ingredients?

[ally173]

my dog's vet is recommending the purina EN wet formula. however i noticed the following ingredients which can be toxic, especially for a dog with IBD and digestive issues.
Copper sulfate, menadione sodium bisulfite complex and sodium selenite; these ingredients can be toxic and cause vomiting and are not meant for long term use. however the vet said she might be on this diet for a long term if not her life.
can anyone please tell me more about these ingredients, why are they added to this formula and how safe are they? thanks

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by ally173

my dog's vet is recommending the purina EN wet formula. however i noticed the following ingredients which can be toxic, especially for a dog with IBD and digestive issues.
Copper sulfate, menadione sodium bisulfite complex and sodium selenite; these ingredients can be toxic and cause vomiting and are not meant for long term use. however the vet said she might be on this diet for a long term if not her life.
can anyone please tell me more about these ingredients, why are they added to this formula and how safe are they? thanks

I cannot comment on the ingredients. The only thing I will say is that I had a pup who had multiple medical issues including gall bladder problems and he was on Purina EN for the last three years of his life without any problems.

[ally173]

Originally Posted by ladyjane

I cannot comment on the ingredients. The only thing I will say is that I had a pup who had multiple medical issues including gall bladder problems and he was on Purina EN for the last three years of his life without any problems.

ok thanks for sharing.

[lil fu fu girl]

1) Menadione is a synthetic version of vitamin K. Menadione or vitamin K is not really a vitamin but a component of bacterial digestion. When natural vitamin K is absorbed into the body it has a specific pathway by which it is absorbed and utilized, not to mention that it is normally a fat-soluble compound. Synthetic vitamin K is not only not fat-soluble, but created to be water-soluble. It also does not follow the same absorbtion mechanism which its natural version does. Which means a lot less absorbtion and utilization by the organs that need it. If you feed your dog fish, fish meal, green plants, or liver, than you have got a natural vitamin K supplement. Here is a list of just some of the issues surrounding this pet food additive:
causes cytotoxicity in liver cells
causes formation of radicals from enzymes of leucocytes, with the consequence of cytotoxic reactions
considerably weakens the immune system
possible mutagenic effects
damages the natural vitamin K cycle
has no effect on coumarin derivatives, which are often present in commercial food due to mold contamination (toxic when ingested)
causes hemolytic anemia and hyperbilirubinemia, not just linked to large doses
disturbs the level of calcium ions (Ca2+) in the body, which is an important factor fibrinolysis
is directly toxic in high doses (vomiting, albuminuria), unlike natural vitamin K
builds up in tissue and has been detected in eggs, meat and milk of animals supplemented with menadione derivatives
causes irritation of skin and mucous membranes
causes allergic reactions and eczema

2) Copper sulfate is used in dog food in very small amounts. It is added to prevent anemia...?! Well, if you are using a dog food with high quality complete proteins why would you need this ingredient? My concern is that its main use is as a toxic pesticide. Cornell Definitely would not want this in my dogs food.

3)Sodium Selenite is another one of those ingredients added into dog food because there has been not enough high quality complete proteins added into the food. Sources of this essential compound are found in fish, meat, and poultry, so why it would be needed if the dog food had the correct amount of complete proteins in the first place is beyond me!
Just like the others mentioned above, Sodium selenite and selenate can be toxic in high doses by effecting the pups blood, liver, and muscles. The whole sodium selenite puzzle is huge effecting animals that graze on plants in areas where this compound is naturally occurring, to the feed that is feed them from plants growing in saturated soils, finally to our pets where we are now adding this compound into their food as well. Toxic build-up is a reasonable conclusion for our pets due to this vastly-re-occurring compound in their specific food chain.

My conclusion in discussing these types of pet food add-ins, is why not just feed your pup more complete high quality proteins? This would eliminate the need for, and the problems associated with these ingredients.

Just a reminder, vets are not nutrionists, nor have they been significantly trained in the field. I would definitely suggest one especially if your pup is having difficulties.
Hope this helps.

[ladyjane]

Actually some vets are nutritionists!

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by lil fu fu girl

1) Menadione is a synthetic version of vitamin K. Menadione or vitamin K is not really a vitamin but a component of bacterial digestion. When natural vitamin K is absorbed into the body it has a specific pathway by which it is absorbed and utilized, not to mention that it is normally a fat-soluble compound. Synthetic vitamin K is not only not fat-soluble, but created to be water-soluble. It also does not follow the same absorbtion mechanism which its natural version does. Which means a lot less absorbtion and utilization by the organs that need it. If you feed your dog fish, fish meal, green plants, or liver, than you have got a natural vitamin K supplement. Here is a list of just some of the issues surrounding this pet food additive:
causes cytotoxicity in liver cells
causes formation of radicals from enzymes of leucocytes, with the consequence of cytotoxic reactions
considerably weakens the immune system
possible mutagenic effects
damages the natural vitamin K cycle
has no effect on coumarin derivatives, which are often present in commercial food due to mold contamination (toxic when ingested)
causes hemolytic anemia and hyperbilirubinemia, not just linked to large doses
disturbs the level of calcium ions (Ca2+) in the body, which is an important factor fibrinolysis
is directly toxic in high doses (vomiting, albuminuria), unlike natural vitamin K
builds up in tissue and has been detected in eggs, meat and milk of animals supplemented with menadione derivatives
causes irritation of skin and mucous membranes
causes allergic reactions and eczema

2) Copper sulfate is used in dog food in very small amounts. It is added to prevent anemia...?! Well, if you are using a dog food with high quality complete proteins why would you need this ingredient? My concern is that its main use is as a toxic pesticide. Cornell Definitely would not want this in my dogs food.

3)Sodium Selenite is another one of those ingredients added into dog food because there has been not enough high quality complete proteins added into the food. Sources of this essential compound are found in fish, meat, and poultry, so why it would be needed if the dog food had the correct amount of complete proteins in the first place is beyond me!
Just like the others mentioned above, Sodium selenite and selenate can be toxic in high doses by effecting the pups blood, liver, and muscles. The whole sodium selenite puzzle is huge effecting animals that graze on plants in areas where this compound is naturally occurring, to the feed that is feed them from plants growing in saturated soils, finally to our pets where we are now adding this compound into their food as well. Toxic build-up is a reasonable conclusion for our pets due to this vastly-re-occurring compound in their specific food chain.

My conclusion in discussing these types of pet food add-ins, is why not just feed your pup more complete high quality proteins? This would eliminate the need for, and the problems associated with these ingredients.

Just a reminder, vets are not nutrionists, nor have they been significantly trained in the field. I would definitely suggest one especially if your pup is having difficulties.
Hope this helps.

Do you have the link to this, or is it your own information? Thanks!

[lil fu fu girl]

Originally Posted by ladyjane

Actually some vets are nutritionists!

Originally Posted by ladyjane

Do you have the link to this, or is it your own information? Thanks!

You are right there are some board certified vets that do practice small animal medicine and nutrition, and if you have found an efficient one I would stay with her. The majority of them however, are in large animal operations.

In answer to your second query, I have included a link within the text, however, here are some of my files with which contain additional resources on the subject.
Also some of the links might not be accessible to non-members, sorry. Hope this helps in your research.

Sodium selenate
Sodium selenate
Sodium selenate

Menadione
Menadione
Menadione
Menadione

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by lil fu fu girl

You are right there are some board certified vets that do practice small animal medicine and nutrition, and if you have found an efficient one I would stay with her. The majority of them however, are in large animal operations.

In answer to your second query, I have included a link within the text, however, here are some of my files with which contain additional resources on the subject.
Also some of the links might not be accessible to non-members, sorry. Hope this helps in your research.

Sodium selenate
Sodium selenate
Sodium selenate

Menadione
Menadione
Menadione
Menadione

Thank you!!

[addevo]

Originally Posted by ally173

my dog's vet is recommending the purina EN wet formula. however i noticed the following ingredients which can be toxic, especially for a dog with IBD and digestive issues.
Copper sulfate, menadione sodium bisulfite complex and sodium selenite; these ingredients can be toxic and cause vomiting and are not meant for long term use. however the vet said she might be on this diet for a long term if not her life.
can anyone please tell me more about these ingredients, why are they added to this formula and how safe are they? thanks

Here is my experience with Purina EN. We adopted an approx 7-8 year old yorkie almost 6 years ago. (so she's about 13 or 14 now). Tina was a mommy dog from a puppy mill and was diagnosed with chronic pancreatitis a few months after we adopted her.

We've managed her pancreatitis with a low fat diet. We gave her a home made diet for most of time, but still have had flare ups every 12-18 months. After her last flare up, the vet suggested we try out a few brands of the prescription food. She gave us a few samples, dry and canned, and the only one that Tina would eat at all is the dry Purina EN. We've had her on that for about 8 months. (I add water about 15 mins before serving to soften it up) Her pancreatitis has not re-appeared. The only draw back has been that her skin has become flaky. When I talked to the vet about it, she recommended supplement her food with a bit of fish oil.

I did some research on this site, and another member whose dog has chronic pancreatitis recommended California Natural Lamb and Rice Small Bites. In comparing the labels, the CN has about the same protein level, and even lower fat, which is very good for pancreatitis. So I've been mixing her food about 30% of the CN and 70% Purina EN, with the hopes that the CN will help her coat, also.

In our case, I know there may be some risks associated with giving Tina such a low quality food, such as Purina EN, and especially since it contains some questionable ingredients. But pancreatitis flare ups are extremely painful, and can even be fatal. It's so important to keep this under control. So I feel that whatever risks there are with the Purina are offset by the reduction in her symptoms. Tina is an older dog, so this is an easier call to make.

Why did your vet recommend the Purina EN? Does your dog also have a chronic condition?

[ally173]

thanks for the info; but right now what choice do i have; my dog has ibd and she needs highly digestive food that doesnt have corn; if i get normal high quality food it will be hard for her to digest; i really feel stuck here; dont know what to do.

[ally173]

Originally Posted by addevo

Here is my experience with Purina EN. We adopted an approx 7-8 year old yorkie almost 6 years ago. (so she's about 13 or 14 now). Tina was a mommy dog from a puppy mill and was diagnosed with chronic pancreatitis a few months after we adopted her.

We've managed her pancreatitis with a low fat diet. We gave her a home made diet for most of time, but still have had flare ups every 12-18 months. After her last flare up, the vet suggested we try out a few brands of the prescription food. She gave us a few samples, dry and canned, and the only one that Tina would eat at all is the dry Purina EN. We've had her on that for about 8 months. (I add water about 15 mins before serving to soften it up) Her pancreatitis has not re-appeared. The only draw back has been that her skin has become flaky. When I talked to the vet about it, she recommended supplement her food with a bit of fish oil.

I did some research on this site, and another member whose dog has chronic pancreatitis recommended California Natural Lamb and Rice Small Bites. In comparing the labels, the CN has about the same protein level, and even lower fat, which is very good for pancreatitis. So I've been mixing her food about 30% of the CN and 70% Purina EN, with the hopes that the CN will help her coat, also.

In our case, I know there may be some risks associated with giving Tina such a low quality food, such as Purina EN, and especially since it contains some questionable ingredients. But pancreatitis flare ups are extremely painful, and can even be fatal. It's so important to keep this under control. So I feel that whatever risks there are with the Purina are offset by the reduction in her symptoms. Tina is an older dog, so this is an easier call to make.

Why did your vet recommend the Purina EN? Does your dog also have a chronic condition?

thanks for sharing ur story
yes my dog has severe chronic IBD; this is her 5th or 6th flare up. she vomits pure blood; he did the endoscopy and biopsy to diagnose her and he said her intestines look like fireworks. poor baby
so he put her on iams low residue and prednisone; while on prednisone she did fine for the past 2 months; but when we decreased it to every 2 days; she had another episode yesterday. so he suggested the purina EN since it doesnt have corn.
she's allergic to few ingredients; chicken, rice, corn, lamb, and soy
so the purina EN looks good right now and i am hoping that it will help her. i am waiting for them to order it.
she's back on prednisone again so we wont find out for a while if it's good or not.
the point is we need to find a food that won't flare her up without her being dependent on prednisone to bring down the inflamation.

by the way did your dog also itch on that food?

[lil fu fu girl]

Ally173, out of curiosity, have you tried using any probiotic/enzyme powder with your pups food?

[addevo]

Originally Posted by ally173

thanks for sharing ur story
yes my dog has severe chronic IBD; this is her 5th or 6th flare up. she vomits pure blood; he did the endoscopy and biopsy to diagnose her and he said her intestines look like fireworks. poor baby
so he put her on iams low residue and prednisone; while on prednisone she did fine for the past 2 months; but when we decreased it to every 2 days; she had another episode yesterday. so he suggested the purina EN since it doesnt have corn.
she's allergic to few ingredients; chicken, rice, corn, lamb, and soy
so the purina EN looks good right now and i am hoping that it will help her. i am waiting for them to order it.
she's back on prednisone again so we wont find out for a while if it's good or not.
the point is we need to find a food that won't flare her up without her being dependent on prednisone to bring down the inflamation.

by the way did your dog also itch on that food?

No, I haven't noticed any itching. Just flakes under her fur. I volunteer at our local and after seeing alot of animals with flaky skin, I asked the staff about it. They said it often happens when an animal has had poor nutrition, so that's what made me suspicious about the Purina EN.

My heart goes out to you and your baby, her case sounds so frightening!

I hope that she likes the canned Purina EN and that it will give her relief. (The dry version still has corn, so that won't be an alternative for her.) It's certainly worth a try. Talk to your vet about supplements that would be safe for her. Though vets often don't know alot about nutrition, you have a more urgent problem on your hands right now, so I'd follow the vet's suggestions until the inflammation is down and your baby feels better. Keep us posted.

[ally173]

Originally Posted by lil fu fu girl

Ally173, out of curiosity, have you tried using any probiotic/enzyme powder with your pups food?

yes she's currently on bene bac pet gel; but the vet said to switch to purina fortiflora; it might be better. is this true?

[lil fu fu girl]

Originally Posted by ally173

yes she's currently on bene bac pet gel; but the vet said to switch to purina fortiflora; it might be better. is this true?

I am not privy to the medical issues surrounding your particular case like your vet is; nor do I have a phd in Vet Med. However, I think that supplementation with probiotics is an absolute must with cases involving ibd. I have read numerous cases where this therapy has achieved excellent results.
Probiotics
#2

#3

#4

I would definitley try the fortiflora as it too has many positive research articles surrounding its use.
Fortiflora