Kay, I did want to say thank you for posting that b/c it makes it easier to understand why so many people still do it annually. They are scared about what might happen if they don't vaccinate and I can't blame them. That's a lot of pressure for an owner...

At my vet visit on 6/8 - he said his vaccine is different for 3 years or 1 year. Have you ever thought of that? Maybe, he uses a different one than your vet. Just saying that I had a long conversation with him before getting Macy's yearly rabies. I am trying to do what is best for my fur butts....This is a very trusted Vet & has been my Vet for the last 14 years- He agrees with alot of things - but said the vaccines are different for 3yrs & 1 yr. In our state it is a Missouri Law - not a county one.

I was told the vaccines differ depending on the manufacturer. At least one major manufacturer does make a vaccine where the one year is identical to the 3 year dose. Other manufactures make both kinds. I'm sure your vet knows which one he's using, Kay. :) Here in OK, the law varies by county. My county uses the 3 year vaccines now while others still use the one year vaccines. I still haven't decided how I feel about that.

TY - I appreciate it. I knew my Vet wouldn't be lying to me.

yep fear is always a motivator to get people to do what you want sadly :(

Just curious if they over vaccinate dogs with health issues as the bottle says for healthy dogs only so are they following what the directions from manufacture are?

While Pfizer admits that theirs is the same, I don't see anything like that from other companies, so trying to figure out the difference. It looks theoretically possible that the three year have more adjuvants, but then giving only part of the adjuvants every year is not healthy either...

I may just have to start contacting companies. :(

TY - let me know what you find out! We go back in 3 weeks for the DHPP booster.

I can ask Jean Dodds as I am sure she has done research on all of this since she is doing the rabies challenge to prove it lasts 5 years and then 7 years after that. Can you ask your vet the manufacturer he uses as my understanding is that the one year and 3 year are the same for all but I will check it out further for you for sure as I have read many discussions on this on a vet group I am on and all have said they are the same vaccine so maybe the pharmaceutical rep is telling your vet this and he is trusting the pharma company and passing on to clients but I tend to call the manufacture myself to make sure on things such as medications and also check with pharmacists.

I guess you can say I am not so trusting anymore after dealing with dogs with health issues. I use to be much more trusting sadly :(

yep that is what i would do and remember the bigger ones like pfizer are investigated more than the mom and pops as my client helps her clients get fda approval in US for international companies and she told me they only have so many inspectors and so they concentrate on the bigger companies as more money - you always follow the money so she told me to never take generic drugs for this reason as that is where most of the problems occur as they cannot check out every company not enough man power

I just posted how fda sent out a warning this week about metronidazole so that was pfizer so they watch the bigger companies alot more closely

also Crystal Jean said it is better to do 1/2 dhpp for tiny dogs than to split the vaccines due to adjuvuncts as we were talking about that 1lb dog a week ago and that was her response to do 1/2 the vaccine not separate it

I think Pfizer admits to it as it has had lawsuits against them for not disclosing properly to pet owners like things such as nsaids and the side effects of it.

But if we think of this logically why would a company make two different vaccines as that is very costly ?

A company would make much more money selling the same vaccine with two different lables and if not monitored could easily get away with it. Why would a big company like pfizer who has alot more money than a smaller manufacturer to make two separate vaccines not do it to make more money? Is it because they are more regulated and had to admit to what they were doing?

I believe the 3 year costs more than the one year correct?

That was my concern with splitting them. Three times the preservatives and three shots for each round isn't what I'd be doing.

But I also have some reservations about just doing half b/c it takes a certain amount to get an immune response and has nothing to do with the size of the dog. So if it could be split for a small dog, then it should be able to be split for a big dog. While DOI is studied extensively and the research is available to pet owners, some of these other things are not. If she ever does a study or seomthing, I'd love to see it (or any study by a vet school, etc.), but my understanding is still that it can't be split, so I would not take the chance with my dog.

I don't even know all the companies that make rabies vaccines. The ones I'm thinking of are Pfizer and Merial, but Wyeth may make one also. So I guess we could ask them all what the difference is in their 1 and 3 year vaccines.

sadly I doubt any studies will happen with dhpp as it is an elective vaccine not required and those studies cost a ton of money to do as they are still raising money for rabies challenge to push rabies out to 5 years then 7 years and only doing that study because it is required by law.

Each owner will have to make their own decision on what to do with dhpp. I am comfortable with the one year booster then titering as I saw the reaction after that plumber incident when no vet said to bring my dogs in for dhpp as I have been titering for 5 years now.

I know there is controversy on the vaccine based on size of dog but my gut tells me a dog that is 1lb does not need the same dose as a dog that is 90lb but everyone has to make that choice for their own dog and discuss with vet as well as it is up to the pet owner to question it as the vet will never tell you unless you ask first as they cannot apparently in many practices. Sadly it is up to the pet owner to educate themselves and ask questions.

While I want to believe these studies are never skewed I have a hard time believing they are not if money is involved and the companies that are paying for these studies have a financial gain in them. I prefer independent studies and why i get the whole dog journal as there are no advertisers for that publication so no way to skew things since money is not involved by paid adverstisements like other publications.

It is sad but i always go back to "For the love of money is the root of all evil" so why i question things more now than i use to. I really wish I did not feel this way but after dealing with dogs with health issues it has opened my eyes to alot that goes on.

Many times you see a drug is suppose to help for humans etc and then they come out on tv and say OOPS. There are no guarantees either way sadly.

also when the studies are done it seems by the poll of 50% for annual vaccinations vets are not following them- why?

Are they not reading the information or just choosing to ignore what the studies show?

Do they not believe the studies are accurate?

Something else to take into consideration is that most people on YT are very educated. When talking about the general dog owning population, that number of educated people may go way down. So I'm sure it's way more than 50% doing it annually.

A lot of vets that are members of the AAHA will do it every three.
Other than that, a lot of the totally independent ones seem to like every year. It really does have everything to do with what each individual vet thinks. I guess some don't trust the research and there will be some just like teh revenue. And there are stiil some that think if clients are given permission to skip them annually, they won't come in for exams. And others will do what the boss requires.

More owners are becoming aware though which is awesome.

yeah you are so right as people here are wayyyyyy more educated on here which is GREAT. But looks like we need to keep on educating to get those numbers down for healthier dogs. I had no clue of all this stuff 6 years ago and so thankful for yahoogroups as well as YT as at least people can be more informed to better care for their pets and make more informed decisions.

what is wild is on that aaha site there are like 3 vets in my area lollll yet there are a ton of vets and the one on there over vaccinates dogs as he vaccinates for corona and my friend has faithfully gone to him for years and her dog has cancer at the injection site for rabies and she has spent 30k over six months with two surgeries removing it and chemo - very sad so not sure he is following aaha or just using that site to get new clients and he is the one that gave my dog nsaid while on steroids with mvd dog :(

I am just not so sure that is the best place to get a vet referral anymore sadly after what happened to my dog and my friends dog :( He does have all the latest equipment though which is why i went to him as he had a digital xray machine :)

What do these vets have to do to get on that AAHA website anyway as have not read up on that?

The place where Ellie was overvaccinated was an AAHA vet.
Some are more likely to follow that protocol though.

She goes to an AAHA vet office now that does them every three, but there is lots of room for the clients and vets to change that schedule. :)

A good number of vets here require vaccines for boarding...possilby even annually.

ok here is jean's response

Deb: Yes, so I’ll explain. Some manufacturers claim that they add some extra antigenic mass in the 3 –yr product – BUT, in fact the label specification is intended for legal documentation purposes. Because, puppies must have two doses of vaccine within a year to complete the protocol as required by law. So, the veterinarian gives a rabies vaccine labeled one year initially, and thus the client record indicates that only the first of two doses was given, as it legally expires in a year. Then when the puppy is due for his/her second dose, a 3 –yr product is given because the 3rd dose would be due three years from now.

If by accident, the veterinarian’s chart shows that a 1-yr labeled product was given for the second dose , in error, then legally it would expire a year later. This has happened and led to lawsuits and pet quarantine and even confiscation and euthanasia because the product was legally expired – though medically equivalent.

Tomorrow is our annual visit and I have been reading this thread and doing LOTS of research for the last ten days. I was particularly interested in this because last year when Armani had her annual vaccinations she had an extremely adverse reaction. I am so grateful for the information shared in this thread. Our vet is wonderful and I had a consultation with her today. We have decided to proceed with titers test tomorrow...wish us well. Thanks for sharing everyone!

great choice as dogs with adverse reactions prior the next one can be much worse - I am sure all will be ok. Usually i do the titers with a full blood panel to make sure they are all healthy each year :) That way just one blood draw for the year.

Yes, we are going to do a full blood panel. I saw in an earlier post where you had indicated that "dogs with adverse reactions prior the next one can be much worse". Honestly, I can not even imagine a worse reaction, the last two were scary enough. She get rabies on a different cycle and she had a pretty bad reaction to that as well and she gets pretreated with Benadryl. All the Benadryl does is slows down the reaction, it did not prevent it. Additionally, Armani has allergies so when you put all of that together I was very concerned about annual vaccinations.

When reactions are that severe, it is usually best to skip entirely. Depends on the situation, but everytime they are given you pup's life is in danger.

What was the reaction though? Lethargy, etc.? or did it turn into shock?

Hoping the titer is high so you don't have to worry about it.

Yes, reactions can be worse the more it happens...

dogs with health issues you should really think long and hard and talk to vet about vaccinating. Allergies is a health issue it is an autoimmune disease so why your dog is reacting so much as her immune system is compromised. Can you get a health waiver for her? Are you doing every 3 years with rabies? Even if titer came in low with dhpp I would not vaccinate again if she has had the one year booster

I talked to another vet about annual vaccinations and she said titers are a good idea. She said that I should do all of the vaccines 2 times (for 2 years) to make sure she's really protected and then do titers after that. So this year, my baby is only getting the rabies because it's required to come into the U.S. and back into Mexico. I asked the people who control animals coming into Mexico and they said the 3 year rabies isn't accepted. The doggie has to have the yearly one, something I hate having to do. I'm going to double check with my vet here in Mexico. But it really makes me mad that they aren't accepting the 3 year. That would be less stress to my baby.

When Armani had her annual vaccinations last year she was vomiting and experiencing muscle spasms 1½ hours afterwards. When she had her rabies shot last year, she once again experienced muscle spasms. When she had her vaccinations as a puppy she did not have any reactions at all.

Thanks for the well wishes on the titer.

Armani had her one year booster last June. I strongly suspect that the vaccinations may have triggered the allergies because we did not have an allergy issue before vaccinating (even though it was months after the vaccination that she developed allergies). As for the rabies, I will revisit that with our vet. My concern there is lifestyle as Armani goes to doggie daycare and travels on airplanes a bit. We are on the three year rabies cycle so it is not an immediate issue.

Yeah dee dee never itched until after her 6 month shots then all heck broke loose :(

The only reason we vaccinate our dogs is because we do have to kennel them at times and the vaccinations have to be kept up or they will not allow them in the kennel. Some states allow rabies every 3 years but the state we now live in require a yearly vaccine which I hate.

Please excuse me if this is a really stupid question, or if it was already answered in this thread, but who is Dr Dodd? I consider myself to be fairly new to yorkies, being a first time owner for less than a year. I understand the training and behavior part because I "trained" shelter dogs where I volunteer. But, vaccine protocol and all of that mediciney stuff is still very new to me. Kaji will be due for his boosters come Aug, and I want to do what is best for him.

Also, Kaji and I cross the border to TJ to visit family very often, will that make a difference as to what he needs to have?

Hemopet/Hemolife, HEMOPET a full animal blood bank, Diagnostic Laboratory, Adoption and Consultation

she is in garden grove not far from you either :) by knotts berry farm

http://www.itsfortheanimals.com/DODDS-RESUME.HTM

So Dr Dodd is a homeopathic vet?