Conflicted over raw food diet and commercial

[Cerise]

Originally Posted by kionini

I've been reading about holistic diets for dogs and I'm so confused, my head is spinning. Dr. Karen Becker advocates raw feeding,

"If I were a pediatrician and a mother told me, "it's just too hard making healthy food everyday for my kid, I'm just going to feed Total cereal everyday, it's 100% nutritionally complete," we'd all feel sorry for her kid. I am a vet, and when people tell me "I've found a really good dry food, I think I'...ll feed it everyday for the rest of my pets life," why don't we feel equally sad?"

In some places feeding our pups garlic, rice, etc. is condemned. Yet, looking at some of the recipes here in YT forums, these ingredients are okay.

I've got to do something about my little ones. Nini is getting fat and Nicky hates kibble, he runs and hides when I take out the bag . Their vet says that the dangers of food poisoning with raw food are great, but Dr. Becker says it's ignorance, food companies pay for vet training, etc.

What I do know is that I grew up with pets. I never saw a bag of kibble in my house, my mom cooked all our dogs' meals, I don't remember any of our dogs ever being sick, and they died old. What gives? I don't know what to do and I'm getting desperate.

I hate having Nicky on drugs, it bothers me to no end, because I know there are side effects to every drug. There's a price to pay for every single drug we take, even an aspirin. I wait until I can't take the head-ache any more to take an aspirin, yet I'm giving Nicky medicine twice a day for stomach upset and I wonder if this can be taken care of naturally, no drugs
How many of you have gone 'green' with your fur-babies? Is it possible to do it right?

Your mom was a very smart woman. I have been cooking for Cerise for a month now (since she's been home) only ONCE has she had runny poop and that was over a week ago when I decided to leave her some Wellness kibble out to snack on while I was at work. I had bought the bag before she came home and thought not to waste it...WRONG! I came home that day to the most funky smelling home and soooo much poop Thank goodness it was all on the potty pad. But she had the runs till the next day and I have not or will not give her any commercial dog food ever again.

I know there are some Yorkie owners that believe in raw but I don't. I believe in cooked food with supplements added. IMO the raw that is being talked about is not the same as an animal eating real raw...which is in the wild. In the wild the prey has blood, skin, fur, all organs and are alive when they are caught. The raw that is so popular is from the grocery store and I am not comfortable with that. Besides a Yorkie is not a wolf and is now so domesticated that some are so picky (like my Cerise) that they don't mind letting you know that they WILL NOT eat, or drink commercial garbage food or nasty tab water. I don't blame them at all

[Britster]

Originally Posted by Cerise

Your mom was a very smart woman. I have been cooking for Cerise for a month now (since she's been home) only ONCE has she had runny poop and that was over a week ago when I decided to leave her some Wellness kibble out to snack on while I was at work. I had bought the bag before she came home and thought not to waste it...WRONG! I came home that day to the most funky smelling home and soooo much poop Thank goodness it was all on the potty pad. But she had the runs till the next day and I have not or will not give her any commercial dog food ever again.

I believe homecooking is wonderful for a dog if you can do it. I don't have the time, energy, or patience to do it but I just wanted to add that you can't really blame kibble for making Cerise sick. If her stomach is used to homecooked food, of course you giving her some kibble is probably going to give her the runs. Just like when people change a dogs kibble diet (from one kibble to another...) they often get the runs and upset stomachs. Any quick change in diet will do that.

I don't really believe one diet is better than the other. But I think in the end what works for one person won't work for another and the bottom line is we all (on this forum anyways) want what's best for our pets or we wouldn't even be sitting here discussing it. I don't think there's anything wrong with feeding raw but it just seems like too much work for me personally. I prefer to have kibble to give him. I like grain-free kibbles and ones that are high in their meat content because my dog does the best with those foods.

[Cerise]

Originally Posted by Britster

I believe homecooking is wonderful for a dog if you can do it. I don't have the time, energy, or patience to do it but I just wanted to add that you can't really blame kibble for making Cerise sick. If her stomach is used to homecooked food, of course you giving her some kibble is probably going to give her the runs. Just like when people change a dogs kibble diet (from one kibble to another...) they often get the runs and upset stomaches. Any quick change in diet will do that.

I understand. The thing was that has been the only time and it stunk so bad She poops on the pad everyday and it is firm, a small amount and barely has an odor. I have some firends who have small dogs and feed them commercial food and always complain about the smell and amount of poop. But I do understand everyone is not a fan of cooking I do it once a week and freeze enough to last for a while, plus I LOVE to cook.

[justinmiller7]

My 4 lb yorkie is a very selective eater and had seizures that we found out to be diet related. I switched him to raw and they went away but it caused him to throw up quite often. I found a kibble caled Orijen that uses fresh regional ingredients to produce Biologically Appropriate foods for dogs and he has been GREAT on it. It has won pet food of the year and I am so grateful I found it. In addition to that I give him dehydrated wild caught salmon, sweet potatoes, broccoli and green beans. It gives him some variety and he absolute goes nuts for all of them. Hope this helps...

[PrincessDiana]

Originally Posted by Cerise

I know there are some Yorkie owners that believe in raw but I don't. I believe in cooked food with supplements added. IMO the raw that is being talked about is not the same as an animal eating real raw...which is in the wild. In the wild the prey has blood, skin, fur, all organs and are alive when they are caught. The raw that is so popular is from the grocery store and I am not comfortable with that. Besides a Yorkie is not a wolf and is now so domesticated that some are so picky (like my Cerise) that they don't mind letting you know that they WILL NOT eat, or drink commercial garbage food or nasty tab water. I don't blame them at all

Again, not trying to argue, but I will stick up for raw when I feel it's necessary. The raw I feed DOES have blood, skin, fur, and organs. Yorkies, as well as all dogs, ARE wolves. They are taxonomically the same species with the domesticated dog as a subspecies of the wolf. They are also physiologically and anatomically the same, sharing 99.8% of the same DNA. The differences in appearance and size are accounted for in that less than 2%. I am not saying raw is better than homecooking but I wanted to point out the discrepancies posted.

[Cerise]

Originally Posted by PrincessDiana

Again, not trying to argue, but I will stick up for raw when I feel it's necessary. The raw I feed DOES have blood, skin, fur, and organs. Yorkies, as well as all dogs, ARE wolves. They are taxonomically the same species with the domesticated dog as a subspecies of the wolf. They are also physiologically and anatomically the same, sharing 99.8% of the same DNA. The differences in appearance and size are accounted for in that less than 2%. I am not saying raw is better than homecooking but I wanted to point out the discrepancies posted.

Yes, dogs are related back to the Wolf, but a yorkie is not a wolf. This breed is so domesticated that if you were to put one out on it's own it could not survive without a human. They will not hunt down prey, kill and live many years like a wolf in the wilderness. Lets get real here. I have not seen any raw dog food sold with skin, fur, blood and organs. I see raw meat ground up mixed with other ingredients and frozen. I see and read of people going to the grocery store and getting butchered meat to give their dogs a raw diet. That is not what a wolf eats I am sure that raw works for some, but not all. Each person should take the time to research and find out what works for their Yorkies and lifestyle.

[PrincessDiana]

Originally Posted by Cerise

Yes, dogs are related back to the Wolf, but a yorkie is not a wolf. This breed is so domesticated that if you were to put one out on it's own it could not survive without a human. They will not hunt down prey, kill and live many years like a wolf in the wilderness. Lets get real here. I have not seen any raw dog food sold with skin, fur, blood and organs. I see raw meat ground up mixed with other ingredients and frozen. I see and read of people going to the grocery store and getting butchered meat to give their dogs a raw diet. That is not what a wolf eats I am sure that raw works for some, but not all. Each person should take the time to research and find out what works for their Yorkies and lifestyle.

A Yorkie may not be able to survive on it's own in the wild but that does not make them any less a wolf. Yorkies are not simply "related back to the wolf", they ARE wolves. They are genetically, anatomically, and physiologically the same. That means that their bodies are designed the exact same way and they require the exact same diet. It's obvious that there are alternative ways of providing the "same" nutrition -- kibble, supplements, etc., but why not give it in it's natural form? Let's get real here, I feed prey-model raw which includes muscle meat, organ, bones, and WHOLE PREY, even some wild prey. I don't see any whole prey, organs, bones, fur, skin, etc. provided in homecooked or kibble so what exactly is your point? The same nutrition is provided in pre-made raw as is in kibble or homecooked. There is no "better" form.

I agree that they should take the time and research what works for their Yorkies and their lifestyle which is why I am taking the time out to educate others on the benefits of raw feeding. As many others (including myself) have posted numerous times, it is important to pick what works best for you, whether it be kibble, canned, homecooked or, God forbid, raw. I just don't quite understand how putting down raw helps the education or is beneficial to the discussion. Pointing out the cons is an entirely different story. I could pick out the flaws in every diet but I don't because I don't think it's necessary -- different diets work for different people, period. I'm simply here to share my knowledge and experiences about a diet that has worked for me and millions of other pet owners.

[Britster]

Originally Posted by PrincessDiana

A Yorkie may not be able to survive on it's own in the wild but that does not make them any less a wolf. Yorkies are not simply "related back to the wolf", they ARE wolves. They are genetically, anatomically, and physiologically the same. That means that their bodies are designed the exact same way and they require the exact same diet. It's obvious that there are alternative ways of providing the "same" nutrition -- kibble, supplements, etc., but why not give it in it's natural form? Let's get real here, I feed prey-model raw which includes muscle meat, organ, bones, and WHOLE PREY, even some wild prey. I don't see any whole prey, organs, bones, fur, skin, etc. provided in homecooked or kibble so what exactly is your point? The same nutrition is provided in pre-made raw as is in kibble or homecooked. There is no "better" form.

I agree that they should take the time and research what works for their Yorkies and their lifestyle which is why I am taking the time out to educate others on the benefits of raw feeding. As many others (including myself) have posted numerous times, it is important to pick what works best for you, whether it be kibble, canned, homecooked or, God forbid, raw. I just don't quite understand how putting down raw helps the education or is beneficial to the discussion. Pointing out the cons is an entirely different story. I could pick out the flaws in every diet but I don't because I don't think it's necessary -- different diets work for different people, period. I'm simply here to share my knowledge and experiences about a diet that has worked for me and millions of other pet owners.

I agree. And actually... I do think a Yorkie would be able to survive for a little bit in the wild (maybe not a long time, simply because of their size...) but I do think instincts would kick in... at least a little bit. That's why so many dogs who are stray, etc survive. They *do* find ways. Not that it's right. It's humans who create the major dependence they have on us. I'm not saying they would last a long time in the wild, but they do have survival instincts.

[kionini]

for sharing your stories and opinions on this subject, the toughest decision I'm facing in regards to my babies.
I am grossed out by raw as well, but I figure---the end justifies the means--seeing my fur-kids happy and healthy is my reward and MY stomach will have to get used to what my eyes see, yuk (I'm trying to convince myself).

I have giving it some thought and in my mind I have planned for the where and how to feed raw, if that's the decision I ultimately make. It's not too hard for me since I studied restaurant management and I'm aware on how & why to protect against contamination (I do it anyway as prevention in my daily life, as I'm a panicky person by nature ).

Nicky is on liquid Famotidine for stomach acid. He throws up mostly a yellow foamy substance but some times it's solids. The vet explained that the foamy yellow was because he has nothing in his stomach. The reason for not having anything in his belly is because I have a hard time making him eat. He hates kibble (hides when I take out the bag to feed them) and only eats it when starving for an entire day and even then he eats only some of it.

I tried changing the kibble, adding wet, leaving out for just a half hour, etc. You name it, I've tried it. He always wins, I'll do anything to get him to eat---from performing tricks to spoon feed him. He can go two days without eating (the longest I've tested him) if I let it and try not to give in.

I've also tried boiling chicken with veggies and adding to the kibble---he won't touch it. I have to separate it and he'll eat only the chicken with veggies. It brakes my heart when I'm preparing my hubby's and my meals, to see Nicky and Nini waiting to be fed from our food. When they get none, they walk around sulking and depressed.

My husband is totally against raw because of the same argument mention in above in one of the posts, that Yorkies have been domesticated, that they're not wild anymore, etc., plus the dangers of feeding raw...But, I'm ready and open to other possibilities, since my mom never tried kibble I know my babies can survive without it. My dilemma is the quality of life and consequences in years down the road.

I have done some research, but what I get is more confused. Out there, people against and for raw feeding are as passionate as they are here in YT. Most on either side of the subject can argue good points on which is the better way and how it has worked for them. My problem is that kibble is not working for me, at least not with Nicky in the sense that it's a struggle to make him eat it and with Nini because she's getting fat and her energy levels are so low (5 minutes into a walk and she's tired and wants to be carried all the way back home). I want to see them healthy, happy and thriving as your babies (I envy you).

I do consider the source of the information I get...if they have an investment in their opinion, I don't trust. That's why I ask you, you're not selling me anything

I agree, there's disadvantages to both raw and commercial but I'm more concerned with the disadvantages to my fur-kids. I've identified the main disadvantages to me and they are the time and effort I'd have to invest. My husband's is the money factor, but I think (?) it would be the same and probably even less than our out-put now. We're already spending a lot trying new kibble and wet food (top of the shelf) that I have to throw out almost full, the vets bills and meds (BTW, I introduce new food gradually, as advised here in YT forums). If the kids don't get sick as much, we won't have those expenses.

I understand the comment about different diet for different pups, it's just that it's been a year + with Nicky and I haven't figure out how to feed him in a way that makes him happy and healthy. I don't want it to be another year of him hating meal time. And I so I appreciate your input, it helps me short-cut-it without testing Nicky and Nini too heavily with what might not work and worst, what may injure my little bundles of joy

I don't think my little ones would survive one day in the wild it's pretty wild in our back yard and they're only brave behind the little fence I have for them. As soon as they're not protected by the fence, they run to mommy! they're too-spoiled little brats...I know, I know, it's my fault.

Thanks for the links and advice, I'll follow them.

[Ellie May]

If he hates meal time that much, I'd want a change too.
Raw isn't our thing...definitely don't agree with it at this time.
We liked homecooked (well not actually doing it, but the idea of it).
There aren't as many contaimination issues, no bones, no need to try and balance it yourself, support available from veterinary nutritionists, etc. It's not for everybody and it is a lot of work, but imo, when done correctly it is one of the best ways to feed.

[Yorkiedaze]

Domestic dogs these days are absolutely nothing like a wolf. Their genetic's have changed over the hundreds of years.
What I see happening these days with a lot of folks looking for a good quality of food to feed their pets is this............the folks are stressing and having medical problems due to it, while they are looking for that perfect diet for the pet.
I don't think a "perfect" solution has been found, and I don't think it ever will be simply because it's right under the nose. "Real Food". Simple! Ever wonder why the rendering plants won't give a tour? Well here are some answers.

Dead Cats And Dogs Used To Make Pet Food

Closer Look At A Rendering Plant

The Dark Side of Recycling

[PrincessDiana]

Nevermind.... I was going to post but decided to just let it go.

[MorkieMomii]

Originally Posted by kionini

That's why I ask you, you're not selling me anything

My husband works for a big company that sells things, technology not dog food. Point is, he says there are posters on here(not saying this thread but on YT in general) who's sole purpose is to bring up there companies dog food over and over in a positive way. I was shocked, but he said lots of companies do it, on all sorts of forums and will really play the role, it is part of the employees job. They will even put other products down and tell all sorts of "this happened to me" stories. I was confused about what to feed our Eva for so long, having problems with one particular food and coming here for advice. Then he told me this and I didn't know what to believe. I ended up getting advice from people in the real world(as oppose to the net).

Your comment above just reminded me of what he had shared, thought I would pass it on. Good luck with your food issues. Even with a food Eva stomachs well, we still sprinkle Parmesan on it, or liver flakes!

[kionini]

Originally Posted by MorkieMomii

My husband works for a big company that sells things, technology not dog food. Point is, he says there are posters on here(not saying this thread but on YT in general) who's sole purpose is to bring up there companies dog food over and over in a positive way. I was shocked, but he said lots of companies do it, on all sorts of forums and will really play the role, it is part of the employees job. They will even put other products down and tell all sorts of "this happened to me" stories. I was confused about what to feed our Eva for so long, having problems with one particular food and coming here for advice. Then he told me this and I didn't know what to believe. I ended up getting advice from people in the real world(as oppose to the net).

Your comment above just reminded me of what he had shared, thought I would pass it on. Good luck with your food issues. Even with a food Eva stomachs well, we still sprinkle Parmesan on it, or liver flakes!

when I read your post. How disappointing Thanks so very much, I had no idea and I didn't think I was at all that innocent.

[Ellie May]

Originally Posted by MorkieMomii

My husband works for a big company that sells things, technology not dog food. Point is, he says there are posters on here(not saying this thread but on YT in general) who's sole purpose is to bring up there companies dog food over and over in a positive way. I was shocked, but he said lots of companies do it, on all sorts of forums and will really play the role, it is part of the employees job. They will even put other products down and tell all sorts of "this happened to me" stories. I was confused about what to feed our Eva for so long, having problems with one particular food and coming here for advice. Then he told me this and I didn't know what to believe. I ended up getting advice from people in the real world(as oppose to the net).

Your comment above just reminded me of what he had shared, thought I would pass it on. Good luck with your food issues. Even with a food Eva stomachs well, we still sprinkle Parmesan on it, or liver flakes!

This is absolutely true.
But some (most) of us really give advice because we honestly care. To write it all off just because some people on the internet aren't honest maybe isn't a good idea either.

There have been many Yorkies that have benefited when food was changed on the recommendation of a YT member (which never would have happened if the owner decided not to trust anything online).

The most important thing is to research for yourself no matter the advice that people give you on a forum.