Conflicted over raw food diet and commercial

[MorkieMomii]

Originally Posted by Ellie May

This is absolutely true.
But some (most) of us really give advice because we honestly care. To write it all off just because some people on the internet aren't honest maybe isn't a good idea either.

There have been many Yorkies that have benefited when food was changed on the recommendation of a YT member (which never would have happened if the owner decided not to trust anything online).

The most important thing is to research for yourself no matter the advice that people give you on a forum.

I totally agree, it is just good to "keep it in mind".

[Rhondakester]

We have a 13 week Yorkie-poo puppy who we started on the RAW diet about 3 weeks ago. Many from this board were so helpful in steering us in the right direction.

I'll share what I did to convert to RAW in case you are wondering "how" to start like I did!

We got our puppy at 7 weeks and fed high quality kibble. She ate the food, but didn't seem too impressed. I kept reading about the RAW diet and decided to go to the grocery store and buy a few items:

I bought: bone in chicken breast, chicken legs, and chicken thighs (all organic and not enhanced).

Came home- pulled the skin off of the chicken (I heard it could lead to runs), smashed the breast a bit with a hammer, threw it in a frying pan for about 10 seconds to give it a "smell", cut a few strips in it so the dog would have something to grab on to, and put her and the breast in her crate (removed the towel first).

As she sat there she began licking the chicken breast, but didn't do much else, so I picked off a piece of the raw chicken and put it on my finger and she ate it. She then began to eat the chicken- it really was that easy to convert!

The idea of eating RAW is difficult to get past for many people, but when I read about the benefits to the teeth and skin I figured I'd give it a try. I also was concerned about developing "corn" allergies to Kibble so that was another reason I went with it.

My puppy weighed under 2 pounds when I started, but is now at 3 pounds and looking super. She has gotten the hang of eating chicken well. I have added a dime size piece of beef liver that I give each day (or so). The only other meat I have added is beef roast (that's boneless) which I cut into hunks and froze.

You feed based on adult projected weight so my puppy should eat about 4 oz each day. I feed three times a day. I've read that a 3 oz serving is equal to a deck of cards so I just visualize that with another ounce on and eyeball to see if she's eating o.k.

For clean up I use hot water on the crate floor or a shot of hydrogen peroxide. I do wipe the dog's paws and chin with a warm cloth as that's my personal preference.

PrincessDiana posted a sample menu (on another thread) that I began to pattern after (I'm not up to pork yet, but plan to add that next week) so if you do a search under RAW you will probably find it. Her posts were a huge help to me.

Since I'm not much of a meat eater, I did have to ask a few questions at the meat counter and they were so helpful, they even cut the whole chicken up for me and repackaged it!!!

Hope this helps,
Rhonda Kester

[Donald]

Originally Posted by PrincessDiana

Nancy, I agree with you that there are disadvantages to every diet, and particularly with raw diets when handled or fed improperly. Most long time raw feeders see no negative health impacts on either their dogs' or their own lives. Obviously because raw food is.. well, raw , there is an increased risk of bacterial infection. However, this risk is almost negligible to both dogs and humans if the owner is careful and takes the proper precautions. Dogs are designed to and are fully capable of handling the bacteria in raw meat. There is also the risk of quality control in pet food companies, but that is a risk you have to take with ANY company, raw or not. Cooking can kill some bacteria, making kibble at a lower risk of harboring food borne bacteria but after 2007, I have trouble trusting any commercial pet food, period. I would be willing to bet that more animals died during that salmonella outbreak than pets fed on a raw diet, ever. That is just a risk each individual pet owner will have to weigh for themselves.

I also want to address the claim that raw diets are relatively new. Raw diets are absolutely NOT new. First, raw diets have existed since the beginning of dogs since wolves in the wild eat raw meat. It is widely believed that raw diets are a fad that have just come about within the recent decades. This is untrue. Commercial pet foods have only been around for the past 100 year, making kibble relatively new. What were domesticated animals fed before the invention of kibble? Homecooked and raw diets. Dogs have been around much longer than kibble has and their successful existence means that they were doing something right in the thousands of years before commercial pet food. There have been many accounts of owners with parents or grandparents who fed their dogs raw that lived long, healthful lives. I don't know what you mean by relatively new, but Jack Lalanne, a fitness expert in the 50s, fed his dog raw! YouTube - Jack Lalanne - The Dog Diet

There many not be any current scientific studies that prove that raw diets are beneficial, but that doesn't mean that there isn't scientific proof! Dogs are anatomically, physiologically, and genetically engineered to eat raw meat. That is scientifically proven. That combined with millions of years of evolution as well the physical evidence provided by the outstanding health of my dogs... well, I don't need much more proof than that! Most scientific research is done by pet food companies, as is veterinary "nutritional education". Clearly they would not be interested in funding expensive research studies that could cause detriment to their revenue. To do an extensive study on the advantages and disadvantages of raw diets would require the collaboration of thousands of vets, pets, pet owners, and pets nationwide. Who exactly has the funding to do this? Perhaps someday I'll be wealthy enough to conduct such a study but until then we're left with what we have.

I want to clarify that I am in no way saying that raw is a superior diet and will work for ALL dogs. I personally feel that my dogs thrive on raw and are receiving the best diet possible. Naturally, I want to share the benefits of this wonderful diet with others. I agree 100% with the statement that not every diet will work for every dog and that dogs can thrive on any diet whether it be raw, kibble, canned, or homecooked. It's all about finding what works best for your dog.

Just for some fun reading:

The world's oldest raw-fed dog, a 27 year old Australian cattle dog-bull terrier cross.
USATODAY.com - Outback mongrel could be oldest dog

I basically feed my Yorkie organic raw meals (microwaved for 10-15 seconds) and home cooked meals that are braised in flax oil or steamed in water. He sometimes eats organic kibble. My 5 year old "baby" is in excellent health, energetic and has a beautiful coat. I attribute this to a balanced approach to feeding him. I alternate days when he eats raw organic meals, with home cooked meals and also commercially prepared organic canned food on occasion. I do add pumpkin, peas, flax seed and carrots as well and ensure that he gets brewer's yeast periodically. So far, so good!

I have no problem ensuring that I handle the raw food very carefully to avoid any cross-contamination. I was initially "bothered" by the raw food meals but came to realize that my pup's dietary needs had to trump my personal distaste for raw meat.

Hope this helps!

[PrincessDiana]

Rhondakester, I am SO happy to hear that you have switched to raw and your puppy is doing well. It really easy once you get the hang of it, isn't it? Have you noticed any health improvements?

[Donald]

Yes, my Yorkie is in very good health, especially considering that he was attacked 2 years ago by an Akita and suffered broken ribs, hip dislocation and a hernia. For the last 3 years I have fed him only healthy, mostly organic food and he is as healthy as can be!

I do supplement his food occasionally with bone meal, brewer's yeast and sea meal just to ensure that he is getting the proper nutrition and enzymes.

I will never give him any of the commercial brands of dog food and was not in the least concerned when all of those pet food recalls took place a while back. My feelings are that I will only feed him what I (basically) would eat myself!

[Rhondakester]

Originally Posted by PrincessDiana

Rhondakester, I am SO happy to hear that you have switched to raw and your puppy is doing well. It really easy once you get the hang of it, isn't it? Have you noticed any health improvements?

My pup was young when I started so she didn't have the skin conditions or lack of energy problems that a lot of dogs have but there were a couple of things that I did notice within 2 days:

Her breath is better, she poops a LOT less than she did when on kibble, and she sleeps very soundly after eating!

I was very nervous starting out, but I just figured I couldn't mess it up that badly! I really think the RAW diet will help my puppy tremendously.

Thanks again for your help!

Rhonda Kester

[kjc]

Originally Posted by kionini

I've been reading about holistic diets for dogs and I'm so confused, my head is spinning. Dr. Karen Becker advocates raw feeding,

"If I were a pediatrician and a mother told me, "it's just too hard making healthy food everyday for my kid, I'm just going to feed Total cereal everyday, it's 100% nutritionally complete," we'd all feel sorry for her kid. I am a vet, and when people tell me "I've found a really good dry food, I think I'...ll feed it everyday for the rest of my pets life," why don't we feel equally sad?"

In some places feeding our pups garlic, rice, etc. is condemned. Yet, looking at some of the recipes here in YT forums, these ingredients are okay.

I've got to do something about my little ones. Nini is getting fat and Nicky hates kibble, he runs and hides when I take out the bag . Their vet says that the dangers of food poisoning with raw food are great, but Dr. Becker says it's ignorance, food companies pay for vet training, etc.

What I do know is that I grew up with pets. I never saw a bag of kibble in my house, my mom cooked all our dogs' meals, I don't remember any of our dogs ever being sick, and they died old. What gives? I don't know what to do and I'm getting desperate.

I hate having Nicky on drugs, it bothers me to no end, because I know there are side effects to every drug. There's a price to pay for every single drug we take, even an aspirin. I wait until I can't take the head-ache any more to take an aspirin, yet I'm giving Nicky medicine twice a day for stomach upset and I wonder if this can be taken care of naturally, no drugs
How many of you have gone 'green' with your fur-babies? Is it possible to do it right?

I don't know what kibble you are feeding, but mine refuse the kinds that contain salmon meal or fish meal, and they continually go off their feed on the higher protein types (over 23%). Most of the better brands can be returned to the store for your money back or exchanged for another brand.

Before going any further, has Nicky been seen by a vet since the food thing with him started? If he is refusing most all food types, there may be a problem with his teeth or jaws. You need to rule out anything medical first, including Liver Shunt.

As per article referred to in post #14: The most helpful things you can do for your dog is to get them on Probiotics with Prebiotics and enzymes. This helps immensely with their digestion and can improve their appetite.
Also add a bit of Salmon oil, amd Coconut oil to their food.

Have you tried Cesar's Dog Food (not the Cesar Milan type, just the cheapo grocery store type)? Again, refer to above mentioned article... if you can get your dog to eat 60% commercial dog food, no additional supplementation is needed. Cesar's is garaunteed to entice the pickiest of eaters. The other 40% can be anything... homecooked, raw (I give a tablespoon of any meat I'm fixing that night before I cook it), Veggies, fruits (just learned mine love apple, carrots and squash) (try things 2-4 times before deciding they don't like it) I think mine loved the apple bc they saw me eating it too!

If he will only eat your food, make him his own bowl and feed him after you eat, never during your meal. Limit the sauces, cheeses, and gravies, as they are too rich for doggies and may cause pancreatitis. Also, add in some dog food or what you want him to eat. You don't have to mix it like you're trying to trick him or anything, just don't give him so much people food as to fill him up. Also, exercise can help create more of an appetite. This diet is more rotational than anything, mine do well on it (esp on raw days). They may not get 100% of everything they need everyday, but they eventually get it within a week or two, so they are never lacking or deficient in any one thing. Mine like oatmeal too. Sometimes we do that for breakfast.

Keep track of what they eat, and watch for any allergies/symptoms to appear, and adjust accordingly.

A vet said this:

"It is better for a dog to eat some of a bad diet than none of a great diet."

[kjc]

oops! double post!

[Cerise]

Originally Posted by Yorkiedaze

Domestic dogs these days are absolutely nothing like a wolf. Their genetic's have changed over the hundreds of years.
What I see happening these days with a lot of folks looking for a good quality of food to feed their pets is this............the folks are stressing and having medical problems due to it, while they are looking for that perfect diet for the pet.
I don't think a "perfect" solution has been found, and I don't think it ever will be simply because it's right under the nose. "Real Food". Simple! Ever wonder why the rendering plants won't give a tour? Well here are some answers.

Dead Cats And Dogs Used To Make Pet Food

Closer Look At A Rendering Plant

The Dark Side of Recycling