Opinions on NOW! Grain free food from Petcurean?

[lil fu fu girl]

Sorry ,,, 1 correction in terminology. The size and bulk of 1 pound of fat is larger not denser than muscle, thats what makes the size of the muscle smaller as it is denser than the fat.
Sorry trying to make breakfast for my son while doing this and things are getting intertwined!

[BonBon]

Originally Posted by lil fu fu girl

Sorry ,,, 1 correction in terminology. The size and bulk of 1 pound of fat is larger not denser than muscle, thats what makes the size of the muscle smaller as it is denser than the fat.
Sorry trying to make breakfast for my son while doing this and things are getting intertwined!

Thanks again for more great info!! I just checked the protein, fat and calorie amounts in 3 different foods I feed. I am amazed at how much they vary (I guess I really shouldn't be surprised, but I am). The higher protein food that I felt they gained too much on has 35% protein, 482 cal and 22% fat. The other food that I feel they do the best on has 25% protein, but only 360 cal and 15% fat. No wonder they were gaining weight. Both foods list the same serving sizes on the packages, so I fed the same amount. I can't believe I never looked at the cal/fat info before - that's the first thing I look at on my food.

Thanks!

[mscat]

Originally Posted by lil fu fu girl

Sorry ,,, 1 correction in terminology. The size and bulk of 1 pound of fat is larger not denser than muscle, thats what makes the size of the muscle smaller as it is denser than the fat.
Sorry trying to make breakfast for my son while doing this and things are getting intertwined!

You seem very educated on what to feed our babies . I had my Suzi on a food BY Nature that had a lesser protein content, rated a 4 , and I thought she was just too thin .
Now, I have anther pup and feed them WEllness small bites . They look and behave excellent . Wellness is higher protein , but not rated a 6 on the super prem. list. It is a 5 , but my 2 look so much better after switching to a higher protien kibble. They love it too.
I think I did the right thing by switching , Suzi filled out , not fat , just filled out , and the shih tzu looks perfect , not fat at all. But , bigger then Suzi, yet she ought to be considering she is a shih tzu . LOL .
What is your perspective of Wellness small bites ?

[lil fu fu girl]

Originally Posted by mscat

You seem very educated on what to feed our babies . I had my Suzi on a food BY Nature that had a lesser protein content, rated a 4 , and I thought she was just too thin .
Now, I have anther pup and feed them WEllness small bites . They look and behave excellent . Wellness is higher protein , but not rated a 6 on the super prem. list. It is a 5 , but my 2 look so much better after switching to a higher protien kibble. They love it too.
I think I did the right thing by switching , Suzi filled out , not fat , just filled out , and the shih tzu looks perfect , not fat at all. But , bigger then Suzi, yet she ought to be considering she is a shih tzu . LOL .
What is your perspective of Wellness small bites ?

I fell in love with nutritional science during my first degree at FSU. My professor was just beginning research on the Stevia Plant as a sugar supplement, and bounced her research off me....I was hooked!

Down the road, had a son with genetic anomalies and needed more information to manage his issues, so went back to school at UMCP to study nutrition.
Now, 24 years later who would have thought that I would still be in academia working on yet another degree in yet another field?!
I don't know....I tell my friends that some of us are just born into academia and decide to never leave!

Anyway, back to the point at hand, sorry!

I honestly believe, if your dog is healthy without issues that we discussed earlier, that they should be fed a high quality nutrient dense "complete" protein. Dogs require protein for so many things, muscle structure for example. While carbs feed the muscles when they work, protein builds the muscle so that it can work. Hair( as we all want those glorious coats that Yorkies are known for), nails,and skin all require proteins on a daily basis. Feeding a "complete" protein, one that contains all nine essential amino acids, and is only found in animal based products is preferable: such as meats,poultry,fish, eggs, and dairy. Grains also contain proteins that are very useful, yet the vegetable and grain proteins are not "complete" proteins, so combinations of different food sources have to be combined to create complete proteins, this does not need to be done at one sitting, but can be spaced usually within a 24 hour period. However, in this recombination, much research has implicated that negative byproducts are produced in the liver and kidneys by the dog ( which is another rant).
So , I try to feed mine complete proteins.

So, in answer to your query, I think Wellness looks great! 3 out of the top 5 are quality complete proteins, plus the Maheden fish which is great for omega fatty acids.

On the other hand, the By Nature, has 1 complete protein in the top 5: not so great , just imo!

So I am sure that your pups have probably an increased energy and muscle tone, plus not to mention that glorious coat!! I personally think that you made a great choice!
Hope this answers your question...if not.... just ask again, as I am off today..LOL

[BonBon]

Ok, here's a tough question for you: what do you feed yours?

Do you feel like a dog food can be too high in protein (spefically talking about for yorkies)? Or is it good to feed 40%+?

[lil fu fu girl]

Originally Posted by bonbon

Ok, here's a tough question for you: what do you feed yours?
Do you feel like a dog food can be too high in protein (spefically talking about for yorkies)? Or is it good to feed 40%+?

LOL I was wondering when we would get to that!
I free feed kibble, which is usually Innova Evo Red Small bites, or the turkey and chicken which both are at 42-47% protein. Then, in the afternoon they get a combination of complete proteins such as steak, lamb, chicken, buffalo, eggs, and organic raw hamburger; which may or may not contain some grains such as wild rice , quinoa, amaranth, wheat germ, or barley; with a probiotics/enzymes added in. They eat about 1/3 of a cup of this and then it gets taken up. I also eat fruit and cheese consistently during the day, apples, grapefruit, bananas, swiss, jack , etc. and the pups always get some. I also try to get them a vitamin about every other day.

My little girl( Andromeda aka. lil miss fu fu girl) is around 4.5 pounds and solid muscle, when we go for a walk, it is a run most of the time, which is great because I am an old runner trying to forever get the extra pounds off! So about 2 miles there, plus we play tug of war or catch about another 40 minutes sometime during the day.
The 1 year old male, Bra'Tac is about 7 pounds, & developing some serious muscle as well, although he still has a way to go to be in competition with Andromeda!

Some people might think that their protein intake is high, however, in consideration that Andromeda has Lymes and has been on meds only once, when we found out and has stayed healthy since; imo I don't feel that it is. Keeping her as muscularly dense as possible, will keep her active for longer, and consequently will keep the Lymes from degenerating her joints, and from attacking her muscles, especially the heart muscle the myocardium.

So there you have it, what I feed, and my thoughts as to maintenance with Lymes. Bring on the onslaught of hatemail! LOL

[hugz4all4]

Originally Posted by lil fu fu girl

LOL I was wondering when we would get to that!
I free feed kibble, which is usually Innova Evo Red Small bites, or the turkey and chicken which both are at 42-47% protein. Then, in the afternoon they get a combination of complete proteins such as steak, lamb, chicken, buffalo, eggs, and organic raw hamburger; which may or may not contain some grains such as wild rice , quinoa, amaranth, wheat germ, or barley; with a probiotics/enzymes added in. They eat about 1/3 of a cup of this and then it gets taken up. I also eat fruit and cheese consistently during the day, apples, grapefruit, bananas, swiss, jack , etc. and the pups always get some. I also try to get them a vitamin about every other day.

My little girl( Andromeda aka. lil miss fu fu girl) is around 4.5 pounds and solid muscle, when we go for a walk, it is a run most of the time, which is great because I am an old runner trying to forever get the extra pounds off! So about 2 miles there, plus we play tug of war or catch about another 40 minutes sometime during the day.
The 1 year old male, Bra'Tac is about 7 pounds, & developing some serious muscle as well, although he still has a way to go to be in competition with Andromeda!

Some people might think that their protein intake is high, however, in consideration that Andromeda has Lymes and has been on meds only once, when we found out and has stayed healthy since; imo I don't feel that it is. Keeping her as muscularly dense as possible, will keep her active for longer, and consequently will keep the Lymes from degenerating her joints, and from attacking her muscles, especially the heart muscle the myocardium.

So there you have it, what I feed, and my thoughts as to maintenance with Lymes. Bring on the onslaught of hatemail! LOL

Your posts have been very informative, thanks!! So my questions is..(lol) what higher quality food(s) would you recommend for someone who has dogs that cant tolerate the high protien. Im on the hunt again for a low protien and fat dog food (wet and dry) that I can use. Tucker is currently on hills i/d and is doing SO much better and he does like it but I would like to put him on something different. I have tried natural balance and neither he or my other dogs would touch it. I have requested samples from wellness for thier super5mix and simple solutions line to see if they will eat that. They are very picky we have been through numerous foods and are running out of options.
Thanks

[lil fu fu girl]

As for too much protein? I really believe that complete proteins should be the main source of energy/kcal in their diet, not carbohydrates, and a large portion of complete protein at that. As incomplete proteins from vegetables and grains produce large amounts of waste that both the liver and kidneys have to deal with. Which in turn, adds additional stresses on both organs , which are already an issue in the Yorkie breed.

That is why I always push complete proteins, as they are easier on the body as compared to incomplete proteins.

Another point of contention with me is the use of "crude protein". Crude protein represents all forms of protein whether it is digestible by our pups or not. So the amount of protein that is in the bag might not actually get into the pup!

......and there it is , I think that I have answered both questions you asked. If you have more, I am still here studying,,,,LOL

[BonBon]

Originally Posted by lil fu fu girl

LOL I was wondering when we would get to that!
I free feed kibble, which is usually Innova Evo Red Small bites, or the turkey and chicken which both are at 42-47% protein. Then, in the afternoon they get a combination of complete proteins such as steak, lamb, chicken, buffalo, eggs, and organic raw hamburger; which may or may not contain some grains such as wild rice , quinoa, amaranth, wheat germ, or barley; with a probiotics/enzymes added in. They eat about 1/3 of a cup of this and then it gets taken up. I also eat fruit and cheese consistently during the day, apples, grapefruit, bananas, swiss, jack , etc. and the pups always get some. I also try to get them a vitamin about every other day.

My little girl( Andromeda aka. lil miss fu fu girl) is around 4.5 pounds and solid muscle, when we go for a walk, it is a run most of the time, which is great because I am an old runner trying to forever get the extra pounds off! So about 2 miles there, plus we play tug of war or catch about another 40 minutes sometime during the day.
The 1 year old male, Bra'Tac is about 7 pounds, & developing some serious muscle as well, although he still has a way to go to be in competition with Andromeda!

Some people might think that their protein intake is high, however, in consideration that Andromeda has Lymes and has been on meds only once, when we found out and has stayed healthy since; imo I don't feel that it is. Keeping her as muscularly dense as possible, will keep her active for longer, and consequently will keep the Lymes from degenerating her joints, and from attacking her muscles, especially the heart muscle the myocardium.

So there you have it, what I feed, and my thoughts as to maintenance with Lymes. Bring on the onslaught of hatemail! LOL

No hatemail from me! I've enjoyed reading your posts. It's definitely given me food for thought (no pun intended ). I'm embarrassed to be asking so many questions....but as long as you're offering....

What is your opinion on feeding a higher protein food to an elderly dog with severe arthritis? Are there any significant pros or cons that I should consider?

[lil fu fu girl]

Originally Posted by hugz4all4

Your posts have been very informative, thanks!! So my questions is..(lol) what higher quality food(s) would you recommend for someone who has dogs that cant tolerate the high protien. Im on the hunt again for a low protien and fat dog food (wet and dry) that I can use. Tucker is currently on hills i/d and is doing SO much better and he does like it but I would like to put him on something different. I have tried natural balance and neither he or my other dogs would touch it. I have requested samples from wellness for thier super5mix and simple solutions line to see if they will eat that. They are very picky we have been through numerous foods and are running out of options.
Thanks

Have to run to the neighbors to let her in but will be right back... Hopefully with some suggestions for you.

[lil fu fu girl]

Originally Posted by bonbon

No hatemail from me! I've enjoyed reading your posts. It's definitely given me food for thought (no pun intended ). I'm embarrassed to be asking so many questions....but as long as you're offering....

What is your opinion on feeding a higher protein food to an elderly dog with severe arthritis? Are there any significant pros or cons that I should consider?

Everything that I have personally read suggests that this is exactly how you should feed an elderly arthritic dog; high protein, low in carbohydrates and grains. The rationale is that a diet high in carbohydrates and grains and low in fat and protein, in essence does not satiate the dog , so consequently the dog eats, and then feels hungry an hour later, and eats more. Contributing to the overall excess accumulation of kcals. Which leads to excess weight, and less overall exercise, which then leads to further deterioration of joints... and an endless circle. Exercise is a key to maintaining arthritic joints.

The old saying about," I had chinese food an hour ago and now I am hungry again", is true. Carbohydrates such as those in vegetables and grains do not satiate your body like protein/fat does simply because they lack the nutrient dense composition to do so.
So, meanwhile your dog is constantly at the food bowl, and you cannot figure out why he keeps eating his low-protein/fat, high carbohydrate kibble and gaining weight. Having a healthy, complete protein meal containing fat, that is low in carbs in the morning, will keep his body satiated and he won't be left feeling hungry, and consequently will not be visiting his bowl all the time.

Also omega3 fatty acids are known for their anti-inflammatory properties, so perhaps a diet that includes these either through salmon, or a supplement would be extremely helpful in keeping the inflammation around the joint down.

Also, maybe using glucosamine supplement therapy would also help. I know people are wishy-washy on this. However, speaking of someone with a back issues; it does help.

Hopefully this answered some of your question.

[lil fu fu girl]

Originally Posted by hugz4all4

Your posts have been very informative, thanks!! So my questions is..(lol) what higher quality food(s) would you recommend for someone who has dogs that cant tolerate the high protien. Im on the hunt again for a low protien and fat dog food (wet and dry) that I can use. Tucker is currently on hills i/d and is doing SO much better and he does like it but I would like to put him on something different. I have tried natural balance and neither he or my other dogs would touch it. I have requested samples from wellness for thier super5mix and simple solutions line to see if they will eat that. They are very picky we have been through numerous foods and are running out of options.
Thanks

Before I suggest something I was wondering what you could tell me about his protein issue, that way I can identify his primary food issue.

[BonBon]

Originally Posted by lil fu fu girl

Everything that I have personally read suggests that this is exactly how you should feed an elderly arthritic dog; high protein, low in carbohydrates and grains. The rationale is that a diet high in carbohydrates and grains and low in fat and protein, in essence does not satiate the dog , so consequently the dog eats, and then feels hungry an hour later, and eats more. Contributing to the overall excess accumulation of kcals. Which leads to excess weight, and less overall exercise, which then leads to further deterioration of joints... and an endless circle. Exercise is a key to maintaining arthritic joints.

The old saying about," I had chinese food an hour ago and now I am hungry again", is true. Carbohydrates such as those in vegetables and grains do not satiate your body like protein/fat does simply because they lack the nutrient dense composition to do so.
So, meanwhile your dog is constantly at the food bowl, and you cannot figure out why he keeps eating his low-protein/fat, high carbohydrate kibble and gaining weight. Having a healthy, complete protein meal containing fat, that is low in carbs in the morning, will keep his body satiated and he won't be left feeling hungry, and consequently will not be visiting his bowl all the time.

Also omega3 fatty acids are known for their anti-inflammatory properties, so perhaps a diet that includes these either through salmon, or a supplement would be extremely helpful in keeping the inflammation around the joint down.

Also, maybe using glucosamine supplement therapy would also help. I know people are wishy-washy on this. However, speaking of someone with a back issues; it does help.

Hopefully this answered some of your question.

Yes, you answered everything wonderfully. I really appreciate the time you've taken to answer all my questions. You've put it all together for me in a way that makes sense to me (for once ). I have been sooooo confused on what I should be feeding.

Oh, and I do give him Cosequin daily and I'm convinced it's what has kept him as mobile as he is! Also, I do supplement with Ark Naturals for the fatty acids even though their diet is usually a fish based one (those are the most common foods that do not contain chicken). So it's good to know I'm on the right track there.

Thank you so much!!

[lil fu fu girl]

Originally Posted by bonbon

Yes, you answered everything wonderfully. I really appreciate the time you've taken to answer all my questions. You've put it all together for me in a way that makes sense to me (for once ). I have been sooooo confused on what I should be feeding.

Oh, and I do give him Cosequin daily and I'm convinced it's what has kept him as mobile as he is! Also, I do supplement with Ark Naturals for the fatty acids even though their diet is usually a fish based one (those are the most common foods that do not contain chicken). So it's good to know I'm on the right track there.

Thank you so much!!

You are so welcome, anytime if I can help, just let me know and I will sure try!

[hugz4all4]

Originally Posted by lil fu fu girl

Before I suggest something I was wondering what you could tell me about his protein issue, that way I can identify his primary food issue.

Thanks for your help. He starting throwing up occasionally, 2 to 3 times a week small amounts mostly consisted of undigested food. A few times he would throw up yellow bile first thing in the a. M and he was burping quite often. Energy level, appetite, and poops were all normal. A few days before i started him on the I/d he was throwing up more then on Sunday he threw up a couple times,had no energy, appetite, he was dry heaving and at one point he let out the biggest burp. Monday he did seem a little better but at one point he jumped up on a pile of clean laundry and threw up all over. I called his vet and was told if it continued to bring him in. For his afternoon meal that day I offered him some wet I/d he ate it with no problem kept it down. Later that evening I offered him some dry I/d he agian ate it and kept it down. I gave it to him for a few days, he was such a different dog. I started offering him the evo wet and the acana and he ate it but by the 2nd day he was back to burping and he threw up. The only reason why I think it's the protien /fat was because when he was a puppy he was on totw and he was doing the same thing, I just thought maybe it was the totw not agreeing with him. I put him back on the I/d and he's been fine. So what do you think?