a little bit frustrated!

[yorkiepuppie]

Originally Posted by Ellie May

Generally anything 18% and under is considered lower fat. Then there is moderate fat which 26% may fall under. Nutritionists and vets may tell you that it is perfectly fine, and that is very possible. It is JMO that maybe a lower fat food could be better. The major concern to me is pancreatitis.

Homecooking, INO, is quite expensive (but maybe about what raw costs...not sure). I's hard to travel with, you need extra freezer space, etc.

There is an endless debate about wet food being worse for teeth than kibble. I will say the source I trust on this says it's a myth. At the same time, I have read where people have fed wet food and had an issue with teeth. Sooooo, I guess it's all in how you look at it... Ellie ate mostly kibble for her first five years and had horrible teeth. Now on homecooked they get brushed and they are much better. I say whatever they eat, brush them and use OraVet.

thank you so much for the info. it's really helpful. i like feeding milu raw, but i am concerned about safety of raw diet. so i was considering homecooking, but it's such a big commitment. maybe it's not as bad as i am thinking...

would you feed Ellie May raw food or do you think it's not the safest thing for her?

[RachelandSadie]

we feed raw, the thing i have heard with home "cooked" meals for dogs have been both the fat content of the meats are higher when cooked and also that you are cooking out all the "healthy" and natural enzymes in the foods or something like that.

we feed Nature's Variety Raw now, we used to do a home made Raw diet recipe, it was wonderful, but didn't last long in the fridge and i worried about it spoiling and making Sadie sick all the time, with the NV raw, it's already premeasured into medallions and it's ready to go in the morning if you thaw out one at a time in the fridge.

hope that helps some.

[yorkiepuppie]

Originally Posted by RachelandSadie

we feed raw, the thing i have heard with home "cooked" meals for dogs have been both the fat content of the meats are higher when cooked and also that you are cooking out all the "healthy" and natural enzymes in the foods or something like that.

we feed Nature's Variety Raw now, we used to do a home made Raw diet recipe, it was wonderful, but didn't last long in the fridge and i worried about it spoiling and making Sadie sick all the time, with the NV raw, it's already premeasured into medallions and it's ready to go in the morning if you thaw out one at a time in the fridge.

hope that helps some.

thanks for the info. i have been feeding premade raw for a while now. (i have fed nature's variety, primal, and now i am feeding milu stella and chewy) i like it, but after seeing a film (food, INC.) about how animals are raised in factory farms, i am concerned about the safety of feeding raw meats, that is why i am considering home-cooking. but i might also just start ordering organic raw if i stick with pre-made raw.

[Ellie May]

Originally Posted by yorkiepuppie

thank you so much for the info. it's really helpful. i like feeding milu raw, but i am concerned about safety of raw diet. so i was considering homecooking, but it's such a big commitment. maybe it's not as bad as i am thinking...

would you feed Ellie May raw food or do you think it's not the safest thing for her?

Well, this really isn't a popular opinion, but nobody has to agree ( ), sooo

There are some things that concern me about raw and I have chosen to listen to Ellie's nutritionist about it. I know just enough about it to know that it isn't for us. Honestly, I would hesitate to even let it around Ellie.

IMO, "if nothing goes wrong", dogs can do amazing on raw, but that if isn't something I'm willing to take a chance on. While I'm not recommending that anyone homecook, I feel like it's a safer option if done right.

[yorkiepuppie]

Originally Posted by Ellie May

Well, this really isn't a popular opinion, but nobody has to agree ( ), sooo

There are some things that concern me about raw and I have chosen to listen to Ellie's nutritionist about it. I know just enough about it to know that it isn't for us. Honestly, I would hesitate to even let it around Ellie.

IMO, "if nothing goes wrong", dogs can do amazing on raw, but that if isn't something I'm willing to take a chance on. While I'm not recommending that anyone homecook, I feel like it's a safer option if done right.

i don't think ANY diet for dogs is popular. people criticize about feeding kibbles, feeding home-cooked and feeding raw.

i haven't done enough research to say for sure, but i think that raw meats would be safe if it wasn't from a factory farm. like if it was freshly killed and eaten immediately, but once it's been sitting around and processed, it starts getting scary.

sigh~ i never knew it was would be this difficult trying to decide what is SAFE to feed my dog.

[Ellie May]

Originally Posted by yorkiepuppie

i don't think ANY diet for dogs is popular. people criticize about feeding kibbles, feeding home-cooked and feeding raw.

i haven't done enough research to say for sure, but i think that raw meats would be safe if it wasn't from a factory farm. like if it was freshly killed and eaten immediately, but once it's been sitting around and processed, it starts getting scary.

sigh~ i never knew it was would be this difficult trying to decide what is SAFE to feed my dog.

I wouldn't feed it either way right now.
And I realllllly don't like the idea of bones in the prey model diet. No thianks.

But when taking about contamination, some kibbles have tested positive for salmenella too...

[BanditSocks2]

Our dogs are on Acana and doing great, even our picky eater with stomach issues. This is our 2nd 15# bag and no diarrhea and throwing up (except one throw up at daycare). I think we found our match If I had the time I would do home cooked meals, kudos to everyone doing them!!

[yorkiepuppie]

Originally Posted by Ellie May

I wouldn't feed it either way right now.
And I realllllly don't like the idea of bones in the prey model diet. No thianks.

But when taking about contamination, some kibbles have tested positive for salmenella too...

can you tell me your concerns of feeding a raw diet. i am trying to learn more about the possible dangers of feeding raw to dogs because i am getting another puppy soon, and i am wondering if i am going to feed the new puppy raw as well, or if i should start cooking for both dogs.

thank you!

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by yorkiepuppie

can you tell me your concerns of feeding a raw diet. i am trying to learn more about the possible dangers of feeding raw to dogs because i am getting another puppy soon, and i am wondering if i am going to feed the new puppy raw as well, or if i should start cooking for both dogs.

thank you!

One of my concerns about the prey model diet, are the bones, I would only feel comfortable giving Joey a really small animal, something he could actually kill in the wild, like maybe a Rock Cornish Hen? I'm really worried about him choking on the bones or the bones causing perforation in the intestines. From my understanding, in the wild bones are padded with either hair or feathers. Another concern I have is the safety of the meats; even organic meats can be butchered in a regular meat processing plant, which means that they are exposed to lots of chemicals and hormones. Chemicals and hormones are destroyed by cooking, however with raw, you aren't heating it. Washing the surface may wash some of the contaminates away, and I'm not sure what steps companies take with this, you need to wash the meat before its ground, so that's why I've been leery of processed raw patties.

I think if you are devoted to raw, you might want to investigate grinding your own food. You will have some control over the quality of the food you are giving and no supplementation will be necessary because you can grind your own bones. There are various recipes that will give you the proper ratio of meats, organ meats and bones. Some people also include vegetables and fruits in their grinds. It seems like if you wash your foods, grind them, and freeze it in patties, you will have a fairly safe product, as safe as the foods you eat. The freezing will stop bacteria from growing, but will not kill bacteria that was already present, however this small amount is not harmful to healthy dogs. If you have access to hunters, you are especially fortunate.

I know other people look at diets as far as, "What is the BEST diet?" I look at it from the prospective of safety, "What's a safe diet?" I believe that kibble diets are safer than raw, or home cooked, but if an individual is very careful, a raw or home cooked diet could be safe, and healthier.

[Ellie May]

Originally Posted by yorkiepuppie

can you tell me your concerns of feeding a raw diet. i am trying to learn more about the possible dangers of feeding raw to dogs because i am getting another puppy soon, and i am wondering if i am going to feed the new puppy raw as well, or if i should start cooking for both dogs.

thank you!

I'll be on YT for the next couple days, but don't have the time that I need to answer this the way I want to; so I should be able to answer on Friday.

[yorkiepuppie]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

One of my concerns about the prey model diet, are the bones, I would only feel comfortable giving Joey a really small animal, something he could actually kill in the wild, like maybe a Rock Cornish Hen? I'm really worried about him choking on the bones or the bones causing perforation in the intestines. From my understanding, in the wild bones are padded with either hair or feathers. Another concern I have is the safety of the meats; even organic meats can be butchered in a regular meat processing plant, which means that they are exposed to lots of chemicals and hormones. Chemicals and hormones are destroyed by cooking, however with raw, you aren't heating it. Washing the surface may wash some of the contaminates away, and I'm not sure what steps companies take with this, you need to wash the meat before its ground, so that's why I've been leery of processed raw patties.

I think if you are devoted to raw, you might want to investigate grinding your own food. You will have some control over the quality of the food you are giving and no supplementation will be necessary because you can grind your own bones. There are various recipes that will give you the proper ratio of meats, organ meats and bones. Some people also include vegetables and fruits in their grinds. It seems like if you wash your foods, grind them, and freeze it in patties, you will have a fairly safe product, as safe as the foods you eat. The freezing will stop bacteria from growing, but will not kill bacteria that was already present, however this small amount is not harmful to healthy dogs. If you have access to hunters, you are especially fortunate.

I know other people look at diets as far as, "What is the BEST diet?" I look at it from the prospective of safety, "What's a safe diet?" I believe that kibble diets are safer than raw, or home cooked, but if an individual is very careful, a raw or home cooked diet could be safe, and healthier.

thanks nancy. i did think about possibly making my own raw food. but i am still a little concerned about it being raw and the possible dangers.

i think the reason people look for the BEST diet and fail to consider the safety issue is because they didn't know they needed to consider safety issue. i know i didn't. i just kind of thought it's the pet food company's job to figure out a safe food...that is why people buy from them, and that is why they are allowed to sell to people... i didn't really think that it was still my job to make sure it is SAFE since i really have no way of knowing how it's produced/processed exactly. how can i know unless i make the food myself, or unless they have a webcam at the factory where anyone can just log in to look at it whenever they want...(what a good idea!? complete transparency and empowering the buyers)

[yorkiepuppie]

Originally Posted by Ellie May

I'll be on YT for the next couple days, but don't have the time that I need to answer this the way I want to; so I should be able to answer on Friday.

cool, that would be great! thank you.

[yorkiepuppie]

Originally Posted by Ellie May

I'll be on YT for the next couple days, but don't have the time that I need to answer this the way I want to; so I should be able to answer on Friday.

still hoping to hear your concerns about raw diet when you get a chance. thanks so much!

[Ellie May]

Originally Posted by yorkiepuppie

still hoping to hear your concerns about raw diet when you get a chance. thanks so much!

I'm sorry. I need to get with it.

Pretty much, I don't think raw is a good idea for the reasons generally given, but I didn't just want to say that and leave it at that.

http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/sic...bone-help.html
This would more so apply to prey model feeders and yes, dogs choke on lots of other things too, but is it worth the risk? And this was a part of the chicken that is generally considered safe when raw...

The NV bone fragments are probably a bit better than whole bones, but then again, I see no reason to take any chance of intestinal problems by purposely giving things that could easily have sharp edges. Maybe it is just me, but I can't say that I understand this... We can say that dogs' intestines can handle it, etc., etc., etc. and for those that believe that, go for it.
Feeding Dogs Bones: Bone Fragments Cause Canine Gastrointestinal Problems


A couple sites about bacterial risk... Some kibbles are contaminated also, so it is not jus the raw diet here although, IMO, raw is still riskier.
Preliminary assessment of the risk of Salmonella infection in dogs fed raw chicken diets
The dangers of the raw food diet | Dog Time


This sums it up pretty well from my point of view:
How safe is a raw diet? Not very—and the facts are chilling: Ann Martin has spent her career taking on the pet-health establishment | Better Nutrition | Find Articles at BNET


Here are a few things that Ellie's nutritionist has to say about it:
PetDiets
PetDiets
PetDiets
PetDiets

I don't think we can know for sure that the weight bearing bones are the only ones causing these problems either.

Maybe someday I will see the great wonders of this diet, but right now, IMO, it is way under researched. Just looking at a wolf's diet and giving the same to a dog because dogs came from wolves is probably not a good idea. And there is very little real research on the raw diet (peer reviewed studies done over time).

[yorkiepuppie]

Originally Posted by Ellie May

I'm sorry. I need to get with it.

Pretty much, I don't think raw is a good idea for the reasons generally given, but I didn't just want to say that and leave it at that.

http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/sic...bone-help.html
This would more so apply to prey model feeders and yes, dogs choke on lots of other things too, but is it worth the risk? And this was a part of the chicken that is generally considered safe when raw...

The NV bone fragments are probably a bit better than whole bones, but then again, I see no reason to take any chance of intestinal problems by purposely giving things that could easily have sharp edges. Maybe it is just me, but I can't say that I understand this... We can say that dogs' intestines can handle it, etc., etc., etc. and for those that believe that, go for it.
Feeding Dogs Bones: Bone Fragments Cause Canine Gastrointestinal Problems


A couple sites about bacterial risk... Some kibbles are contaminated also, so it is not jus the raw diet here although, IMO, raw is still riskier.
Preliminary assessment of the risk of Salmonella infection in dogs fed raw chicken diets
The dangers of the raw food diet | Dog Time


This sums it up pretty well from my point of view:
How safe is a raw diet? Not very—and the facts are chilling: Ann Martin has spent her career taking on the pet-health establishment | Better Nutrition | Find Articles at BNET


Here are a few things that Ellie's nutritionist has to say about it:
PetDiets
PetDiets
PetDiets
PetDiets

I don't think we can know for sure that the weight bearing bones are the only ones causing these problems either.

Maybe someday I will see the great wonders of this diet, but right now, IMO, it is way under researched. Just looking at a wolf's diet and giving the same to a dog because dogs came from wolves is probably not a good idea. And there is very little real research on the raw diet (peer reviewed studies done over time).

wow! thank you so much!!!