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08-27-2009, 05:56 PM | #1 |
YorkieTalk Newbie! | Liver Shunt (MVD) Help My puppy Maxx is 7.2 lbs and is showing no symptoms at 6 months we brought him to go get check up and blood work for neutering and baby teeth removal. He was tested and a little high enzymes and bile acids so we went to go get an ultrasound and couldnt find anything and has a big liver. WE went back and the doc wanted him to be put on the low protein food hepatic food and vitamin so we did that and his enzymes were good and liver bile imrpoved to be ok. It seemed to me the doc was scared and had to verify with the specialist if it was ok. Should I be alarmed. Also What anestesia precautions need to be made. The specialist just recentally told us that it could be MVD. I was freaked out and wondered if should get neutered. I dont want anything to happen to my baby. What precautions do you think I need to make sure is made. I guess I am glad doc was precautious so I could change his diet. Any advise is well needed. |
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08-28-2009, 02:48 PM | #2 |
And Rylee Finnegan Donating Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Metro Detroit, MI
Posts: 17,928
| What were the bile acids test results? Dogs with MVD can be neutered safety if the right protocol is followed. There is no way to know if it is MVD yet though. Usually isoflurane is used for maintenance and they can be masked down for induction. Sometimes Propofol is used.
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08-29-2009, 02:10 PM | #3 | |
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08-31-2009, 06:30 PM | #4 |
YorkieTalk Newbie! | Ok I have the reults after fighting with my vet who keeps insisting that its a shunt and acting like she dopesnt want to neuter I have lost all trust with her and leaving and got his records. Maxx is 7.2 lbs 8 months old. Well on 6/29 his results were ALT of 128. Bile Acids Pre -1.8 and Post 62.6 8/22/2009 ALT 44 Bile Acids Pre 1.4 and post 56.4 The ultrasound was conducted after second results and told me neutering would be fine and with no symptoms would not recommend biopsy. State that sue to levels being mildly elevated Microvascular dysplasia may be considered. I had to switch doctors she didnt completely follow up with the doc and I know there are risks but she kept making it seem like she didnt want to do it and then she kept saying it was a shunt. She makes me feel like if I choose to neuter that I am killing my dog . Pleae help me if you know anything or have been through this. Are all vets like this. |
08-31-2009, 07:02 PM | #5 |
YT 1000 Club Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Washington
Posts: 1,184
| I agree that the bile acids are more indicative of MVD, i don't really feel like an ultrasound is the best way to diagnose a liver shunt. Have you done a protien C test? that would be my next step. You can still have an MVD dog neuterd. Like previous posters stated, just take all the extra precautions. I am having Copper neuterd in about a month and a half and he has MVD. My vet is very optomistic about the surgery. I did have to switch vets with him in the process of diagnosis, to one who had more exp. with liver compromised dogs. I would finish diagnosis before doing surgery and be sure that you are confident in your vet.
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08-31-2009, 07:18 PM | #6 |
Donating YT 30K Club Member | My Cali had similar bile acid scores and was diagnosed through a liver biopsy during her spay with very mild MVD. She requires no treatment. The vet treats her as liver compromised and used propofol and isoflurine and had no problems. I would find a vet who is more familiar with liver shunt dogs and they should be able to safely neuter your baby.
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09-01-2009, 05:52 AM | #7 |
And Rylee Finnegan Donating Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Metro Detroit, MI
Posts: 17,928
| Oh goodness, don't let the vet worry you. He can be neutered if you want him to be. Perhaps the vet who doesn't want to do it doesn't know how to do surgery on a liver compromised dog? A certain protocol does need to be followed and it's no big deal. They are at higher risk because one of their organs isn't functioning properly. That doesn't mean they are in extreme danger. My dog's (post) bile acids were 47, then 15. She was spayed as a liver compromised dog. A couple months later they went up to 106. See, her bile acids are all over the place and her vet still wanted to spay her. It went just fine. Make sure the vet knows what they are doing with anesthesia and no NSAIDs for pain. You can do further testing for numbers like that if you want or you could follow a protocol and treat like MVD or some would say you could do nothing at all. If you want to do more testing, a Protein C Test would be next.
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09-01-2009, 06:54 AM | #8 | |
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i always get copies of everything from vets and specialists and keep a file in case of emergency you have it to give the er | |
09-01-2009, 06:56 AM | #9 | |
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09-01-2009, 07:00 AM | #10 |
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| if it were my dog and my dog has the same numbers i would put on low protein and be done as there really is no need for further testing unless your dog is having symptoms so if my dog was seizing, not eating, head pressing, spaced out after eating then i would do protein c sadly the ultrasound was a waste of money this happened to me with pancreatitis as if someone does not know how to read it real well to find a shunt in a toy dog it is really difficult to find and wasted your money as the bile acids, protein c and scintigraphy are more accurate -- my vet wanted me to do scintigraphy with radio active dye with those numbers and i told him NO WAY she is not having any symptoms and i joined two liver groups on yahoogroups.com and after reading symptoms and what liver shunt dogs acted like i decided i was not putting my dog through this unless she was having true symptoms and she is 5 now and she is on temarilp every other day for allergies and she still has no high alt and doing fine but we treat her as a liver dog with any meds, anesthesia etc -- she just had dental and dentist said she did great under anesthesia |
09-01-2009, 08:27 AM | #11 |
Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: St. Louis MO
Posts: 85
| Hi. I have an 8 yo yorkie diagnosed with MVD as a puppy. He is neutered and has had his teeth cleaned and has done just fine. He is on denosyl SD 4 daily, and a prescription diet. He has done really well. Juliet |
09-01-2009, 12:11 PM | #12 |
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| was your dog having symptoms is why they are supplementing as mine had no symptoms and only using low protein diet - just curious |
09-02-2009, 04:23 AM | #13 |
Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: St. Louis MO
Posts: 85
| Yes he had symptoms....he was very ill as a puppy and we almost lost him before we figured out what was wrong. juliet |
09-02-2009, 04:31 AM | #14 |
Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: St. Louis MO
Posts: 85
| Tried to edit but did something wrong He didn't exhibit the typical liver symptoms, head pressing, walking in circles,etc. He always played and acted "normal" in many ways. He didn't eat well, was always carsick, and eventually developed ascites. Not good! That's what led us to his liver. We almost lost him, but he's still here doing well! juliet |
09-02-2009, 06:58 AM | #15 | |
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