Rosemary extract and seizures

[LuvMySissy]

Kathy - I'm just finding this thread now!!! How is Winston doing lately? Adding my prayers for this sweet little boy and you!!!

[wemple2]

Originally Posted by Darcstu

Please go get a CT scan of your doggie. This will rule out many other possible diseases or defects such as Hydrocephalus or tumors. I used to be a vet tech and had a similar prob with my dog, a chihuahua mix.
Also, I would suggest an ultrasound of his liver, gall bladder and pancreas.

Later in my dog's life, he starting getting crusty ears and feet and was licking all the time.
Several vet's mocked me and said it was just allergies and put him on tons of meds. I knew it was not and I knew he was not himself. His health only declined.

I went to the State Vet hospital and got some proper testing done.

The vet's finally diagnosed him with Hepatocutaneous syndrome. He had only been on Phenobarbital for 6 months for the seizures many years prior to that.
The whole Vet community here, was stumped b/c it seemed that the disease progressed backward.

There could have been microtumors in the pancreas, but I think he was a diabetic for a while and misdiagnosed.

In the end, he was on NPH insulin (a 12 hour insulin) three times a day. He got better after all the aminos and supplements. Unfortunatly, he never recovered from the liver/ pancreatic biopsy and I had to put him down.

Please don't put your dog on Prednisone or any anti seizure drugs. get him THOROUGHLY tested for hypoglycemia and diabetes. These drugs will do more harm than good in the long run.

Try cooking him chicken and rice for a few weeks to see if he has ANY food allergies. Check out milk thistle as well, to clear his liver and gall bladder of any toxins.
Make sure he isn't overweight.

Next time he is seizing, there is a pressure point under the base of his tail. Apply steady medium pressure (5 seconds on and 5 seconds off) until he stops seizing.
This sounds weird; although, it worked wonders for my dog. Keep a rigid seizure chart.....date, time, length.

Get second and third opinions from vets. If they are not open minded about diet and supplements and ONLY wish to put him on meds, I would see that as a red flag.

That small amount of rosemary (it is usually the LAST ingrediant) shouldn't trigger seizures; however, I would really try cooking his food for awhile to rule out any and all allergens.

The best and cheapest places for these sorts of tests (CT scan should run around $500.00) is your local teaching Vet hospital. Ultrasounds vary on price. Insist on these tests and blood tests. Some vets just don't care to figure it out.

All the research I have done about my dog, points to the fact that he wasn't absorbing any protein and aminos properly. Go to your local health food store and get him on an egg protein powder with almost zero or no sugar and massive amounts of aminos to see if this helps.

My dog lived 6 months longer than they expected due to my research and I hope any and all of this info might help you.

I could be way off base, but just in case, I wanted to share my research with you.

Vitamin d3, MSM, probiotics and ester C are good support too!

Best of luck! Contact me if you have any more questions
silverhawk82003@yahoo.com

Thanks for all the helpful information you've provided...do you think he needs a ct scan of the head/brain or the abdomen? He has had both an ultrasound and ct scan of the abdomen, which were both essentially normal.
Winston had another seizure Thursday evening, actually he had two...one right after the other. This happened about two hours after eating his evening meal. Another thing he does, he vomits every time after seizing...I assumed it was from the NutriCal, but now I'm wondering if this might be a symptom as well. More food for thought...always thinking and wondering if I'm missing something. Again thank you so very much for all the information you have shared, I am so sorry to hear of the loss of your little one.

[wemple2]

Originally Posted by _Chrissy_

Innova has Rosemary Extract!

I have switched him back to Solid Gold wee bites...no rosemary extract, I believe. He seems to be eating it ok this time around, although he still had another episode of seizing the other night.

[wemple2]

Originally Posted by dwerten

yes my maltese had a petit mal from rosemary chicken 12 hrs after eating it and she is perfectly healthy so i try to steer clear of that ingredient in dog foods even though many have it and a few maltese on my maltese group once stopping the rosemary in dog food the dog stopped having seizures

Oh how I wish that were the answer...but unfortunately, after discontinuing SD and going back to Solid Gold, he still had another seizure, double as a matter of fact, I've never seen him do that before. Although the vets have warned me this may happen, after giving NutrCal he must eat something to keep his sugar from taking a nose dive. But it is nearly impossible to get him to eat anything at that point, after seizing he vomits...every time.

[wemple2]

Originally Posted by LuvMySissy

Kathy - I'm just finding this thread now!!! How is Winston doing lately? Adding my prayers for this sweet little boy and you!!!

Most of the time he is fine...it's just every month or so this happens to him. Last month he was very ill with HGE, but thank goodness he recovered fully from that. Thanks for your concern and your prayers...it means so much to me that there are people here that really do care about his well being. I feel so blessed to have found YT, where everyone cares about one another and their furbabies.

[dwerten]

Originally Posted by wemple2

Oh how I wish that were the answer...but unfortunately, after discontinuing SD and going back to Solid Gold, he still had another seizure, double as a matter of fact, I've never seen him do that before. Although the vets have warned me this may happen, after giving NutrCal he must eat something to keep his sugar from taking a nose dive. But it is nearly impossible to get him to eat anything at that point, after seizing he vomits...every time.

yeah vomitting does follow seizure as my maltese had a petit mal 12 hrs after eating rosemary chicken and she is very healthy and she vomitted as well. Any dog that is prone to seizures should never have rosemary in their diet as it can trigger them

[dwerten]

Originally Posted by wemple2

I have switched him back to Solid Gold wee bites...no rosemary extract, I believe. He seems to be eating it ok this time around, although he still had another episode of seizing the other night.

grain diets affect seizure activity as well -- are you on k9epilpesy or canine epilepsy on yahoogroups.com. I find the yahoo groups to also be very helpful when there is a specific disease as each owner helps each other with it and are very sharp about it as they research alot since they try to get their dogs better. I have learned so much from other pet owners more so than vets sometimes

[wemple2]

Originally Posted by dwerten

grain diets affect seizure activity as well -- are you on k9epilpesy or canine epilepsy on yahoogroups.com. I find the yahoo groups to also be very helpful when there is a specific disease as each owner helps each other with it and are very sharp about it as they research alot since they try to get their dogs better. I have learned so much from other pet owners more so than vets sometimes

No I am not on the yahoogroups, but I'm going to give it a try. Thanks so much for all your useful informaion. I am seriously considering starting Winston on an anti-seizure med...soon. So I've got a lot to learn.

[dwerten]

Originally Posted by wemple2

No I am not on the yahoogroups, but I'm going to give it a try. Thanks so much for all your useful informaion. I am seriously considering starting Winston on an anti-seizure med...soon. So I've got a lot to learn.

join the canine epilepsy group first and learn about the meds -- I know potassium bromide is less than the phenobartal and both affect liver but pb is a little less strong so they usually start with that - sometimes i have head the meds are harder on them than having the seizures so if the seizures are not that often some go without just a thought

[wemple2]

Originally Posted by dwerten

join the canine epilepsy group first and learn about the meds -- I know potassium bromide is less than the phenobartal and both affect liver but pb is a little less strong so they usually start with that - sometimes i have head the meds are harder on them than having the seizures so if the seizures are not that often some go without just a thought

That is exactly one of my greatest fears...doing more harm then good. I seriously had an appointment made for him to get some blood work taken before starting any medications and I got sick, just a cold, and cancelled. The vet was discussing potassium bromide as her drug of choice...I don't know. My hubby doesn't really want to give him anything, so I do have to consider his thoughts as well. But then he has another seizure and I feel like I'm letting him down by not treating them...and I do hate to see him go though them. My poor baby boy...he's had 2 episodes last week.

[dwerten]

Originally Posted by wemple2

That is exactly one of my greatest fears...doing more harm then good. I seriously had an appointment made for him to get some blood work taken before starting any medications and I got sick, just a cold, and cancelled. The vet was discussing potassium bromide as her drug of choice...I don't know. My hubby doesn't really want to give him anything, so I do have to consider his thoughts as well. But then he has another seizure and I feel like I'm letting him down by not treating them...and I do hate to see him go though them. My poor baby boy...he's had 2 episodes last week.

so sorry join the epilepsy group for sure and do not give anything with rosemary in it ever. Also i have read grain free diets are good for dogs with epilepsy but i would educate as much as you can on the yahoogroups.com before moving forward to go the safest routes. I found the pet owners dealing with a certain disease are sometimes more knowledgeable than the vets