Liver disease

[MauiGirl]

Originally Posted by Ladymom

Lady's situation is a little different. She has liver damage from nine years of seizure medication. She's also diabetic and can't have white rice or white potatoes so feeding her is a challenge.

She also has food allergies. She had three episodes of HGE in four months so I had to stop her vegetarian kibble. She is doing really well on this diet. She's gained a whole pound in two months!

Anyway, to answer your questions, Lady just got weighed on Thursday. She weighed 7.2 pounds. She gets this diet plus plain nonfat yogurt before bed. Her treats are green beans and Busy Buddy Itty Bitty Sweet Potato biscuits. They are wheat free since she is allergic. She also gets tons of supplements including probiotics and fish oil.

She's a mess, but I love her!

Oh my, you have got your hands full with this special little girl. She is lucky to have a mommy to take care of all her special needs. BTW whatcha doing up so late (ha ha); it's 9:00pm in Hawaii, and I usually don't see many mainland people online this late.

[Ellie May]

How are things going?

[MauiGirl]

Originally Posted by Ellie May

How are things going?

Thanks for asking Crystal. I don't have much to add yet, as the surgeon/vet with our Clinic just got back this week from vacation, and the other vet who has seen Tiki isn't due in until Thursday. So, I'm still waiting for them to confer and then talk to me about what we do next. I'm still going to push for the Protein C test, and they are suggesting ultrasound (the tech will likely be coming to Maui December 4th). If they feel she is healthy enough for anesthesia, they may suggest going ahead with spay and will do a liver biopsy at that time. I'm pretty scared about the thought of that, so am in no hurry. She is almost 8 months now and may come in heat any time, but that's ok.

At least for now I have been able to get all 3 dogs eating vegetarian kibble and homecooked food. Tiki still acts like a perfectly healthy dog, and is taking Marin.

[bellasmomok]

Just to chime in....I think I've heard that it would be a good idea to wait for the spay until you know if it's LS or not. That way, if it is LS, they can do the spay and LS surgery at the same time. If it's not, then they can do the biopsy (which should be 3 samples, each at a different site and not just 1 sample, right Crystal??) at the same time as the spay. Maybe that's not exactly right...Ellie May, Yorkieluv, and Ladymom could tell you for sure.

I've been reading this entire thread today.....just got my baby's BAT back.
Resting SBA = 243.0 (Reference Range: <13)
Post-Prandial SBA = 72.6 (R.R.: < 25)

I'm a little puzzled why the Resting is so high....she hadn't had anything to eat since the night before and they drew the labs at 7am???

Again, her 1st set of labs on 10/31 came back with ALT = 302...essentially, everything else (BUN, Creatinine, ALKPH, etc...) was normal.
Her 2nd set of labs on 11/17 came back with ALT = 347....again with essentially everything else normal.

So, what do the experts think?? What should be my next step? Protein C? I haven't done a urinalysis since it hasn't been recommended to me AND since her BUN and Creatinine have been normal.

Should I get her started on a low protein diet? I'm leaning toward yes....

[Ellie May]

Sandy, they sure do like to make you wait, don't they?
Surgery is riskier in liver compromised dogs but with the right protocol, everything should be fine. Ellie was spayed without a problem.

Tara, those numbers are extremely concerning.
Do you want to start a new thread or bump up an old one to talk?

[bellasmomok]

I'll bump an old one...that's probably best.

[TLC]

Originally Posted by bellasmomok

Just to chime in....I think I've heard that it would be a good idea to wait for the spay until you know if it's LS or not. That way, if it is LS, they can do the spay and LS surgery at the same time. If it's not, then they can do the biopsy (which should be 3 samples, each at a different site and not just 1 sample, right Crystal??) at the same time as the spay. Maybe that's not exactly right...Ellie May, Yorkieluv, and Ladymom could tell you for sure.

I've been reading this entire thread today.....just got my baby's BAT back.
Resting SBA = 243.0 (Reference Range: <13)
Post-Prandial SBA = 72.6 (R.R.: < 25)

I'm a little puzzled why the Resting is so high....she hadn't had anything to eat since the night before and they drew the labs at 7am???

Again, her 1st set of labs on 10/31 came back with ALT = 302...essentially, everything else (BUN, Creatinine, ALKPH, etc...) was normal.
Her 2nd set of labs on 11/17 came back with ALT = 347....again with essentially everything else normal.

So, what do the experts think?? What should be my next step? Protein C? I haven't done a urinalysis since it hasn't been recommended to me AND since her BUN and Creatinine have been normal.

Should I get her started on a low protein diet? I'm leaning toward yes....

...honestly...I would consult with Olga at the Yahoo Group - that woman is filled with sooooooooooo much knowledge about all this she really needs to consider becoming a Vet and Nutritionist.
DogLiverDisease : Dog Liver Disease

...she and Yorkieluv and Ellie May have truly helped me to go on the right path with Roxy

[MauiGirl]

Originally Posted by Ellie May

Sandy, they sure do like to make you wait, don't they?
Surgery is riskier in liver compromised dogs but with the right protocol, everything should be fine. Ellie was spayed without a problem.

Tara, those numbers are extremely concerning.
Do you want to start a new thread or bump up an old one to talk?

Yes waiting is hard, but there just aren't a bunch of highly qualified professionals to pick from here, so we do the best we can. I have learned so much from you and others on YT, I am more calm about moving forward. I have learned the right questions to ask the vet, and have gained confidence in the team. The surgeon is the ONLY Board Certified one on Maui, and I believe there is only one other in all of Hawaii. The Vet Radiologist is highly qualified, and the only one. The ultrasound will be done on Dec. 4th, and even though I know it is expensive and may not see anything, as the Vet says "but if it does show a shunt then we know for sure and don't have to look further, and can prepare to fix it at the same time as the spaying." It is just one more tool in diagnosing, and I'm still working toward Protein C test. It has to be done early in the week to allow time to FedEx to Cornell, which only processes on certain days.

I just keep praying it will all be ok (yes part of me still hopes it will all go away and turn out to be nothing). Our family has been thru a lot already this year, and we don't need our little Tiki sick.

[Yorkieluv]

I will keep Tiki in my prayers. Please do not hesitate to ask any other questions. We are all thinking about her!!

[MauiGirl]

Originally Posted by Yorkieluv

I will keep Tiki in my prayers. Please do not hesitate to ask any other questions. We are all thinking about her!!

Thank you so much for your continued support and prayers. I was so overwhelmed 3 weeks ago when all this started; I read Dr. Center's report and hardly understood anything. You and the other angels here have helped me put things in perspective and take the proper steps. Diagnosis is really the hardest part, it is stressful not to know what it is. Once we know and can move on with treatment, at least I'll feel like I'm doing something. It was empowering to at least be able to move in the direction of better diet and supplements, regardless of the final diagnosis.

Because the ALT was so high, and xray shows liver slightly small, I think ultrasound is warranted. If I don't do it on Dec. 4th, I'd have to wait another 6 weeks for the next opportunity. All 3 vets involved in the case feel it is a worthwhile tool in case it does show shunt, the mystery is solved and it would aid the surgeon in treating.

At this point I hardly know what questions to ask, you have been so helpful. I signed up for the 2 yahoo groups, but haven't figured out how to use them effectively. I think I only completed the questionaire on 1.

The support I have gotten here means more to me than you will ever know. I am so grateful that I haven't had to go thru this alone.

Aloha,

[mom2twins]

Your vet is recommending an ultrasound? Make sure you have it done by a board certified radiologist. They have gotten more education and can locate the shunt better.

My Yorkie recently was dx w/liver shunt. We had an ultrasound done by a regular vet, she confirmed a liver shunt. However, she was honest and said she could not tell me where it was located, and if it could be operated on because she didn't have the extended education for that. She recommended a board certified radiologist/vet.

We took her 2 hours away and she is a candidate for surgery due to the location of the shunt. We paid $150 for the 1st ultrasound and $330 for the one done by a board certified radiologist. Wish I knew...I could have saved $150.

Just something to keep in mind.

Good luck. I hope the outcome is good.

[MauiGirl]

Yorkieluv, I sent the completed history questionaire to the yahoo group, but haven't seen it posted yet so haven't wanted to ask questions there yet.

Tiki has adjusted well to the diet change and now enjoys her NB Vegetarian as her primary food with a little home cooked on the side. She even seems to be eating a bit more than she used to, which I like cause she seems a little thin. Her u/s is next week, can't wait to move forward.

I just realized that the CET dental chewies I've been giving her 1/2 of per day are probably not good for her, so I quit. I assume rawhide chewies are bad also. She never liked the nylabone. Is there anything else she can chew on?

My Morkie (5 mo. old 6#) is now eating the NB Vegetarian too and loves it, especially moistened. I think she is old/big enough not to need puppy food, but since she doesn't have any health issues do you think this is a good food choice for her? I do sneak her extra chicken bites for added protein, but are there enough vitamins in this for her?

[Ellie May]

Originally Posted by MauiGirl

Yorkieluv, I sent the completed history questionaire to the yahoo group, but haven't seen it posted yet so haven't wanted to ask questions there yet.

Tiki has adjusted well to the diet change and now enjoys her NB Vegetarian as her primary food with a little home cooked on the side. She even seems to be eating a bit more than she used to, which I like cause she seems a little thin. Her u/s is next week, can't wait to move forward.

I just realized that the CET dental chewies I've been giving her 1/2 of per day are probably not good for her, so I quit. I assume rawhide chewies are bad also. She never liked the nylabone. Is there anything else she can chew on?

My Morkie (5 mo. old 6#) is now eating the NB Vegetarian too and loves it, especially moistened. I think she is old/big enough not to need puppy food, but since she doesn't have any health issues do you think this is a good food choice for her? I do sneak her extra chicken bites for added protein, but are there enough vitamins in this for her?

I personally wouldn't use it as a pup food for a healthy dog. I think it would be okay when she is older.

You are correct on the chews. None of that is good for her. For safety reasons, the only chews I'd give any dog would probably be bully sticks but since Ellie's is allergic to beef and red meat is off the menu, she gets nothing but raw veggies to chew on.

I would brush her teeth though. We use CET vanilla mint toothpaste. Some of their others have meat ingredients. This does contain sorbitol which I hate but I haven't heard of any adverse effects in dogs.

[MauiGirl]

Originally Posted by Ellie May

I personally wouldn't use it as a pup food for a healthy dog. I think it would be okay when she is older.

You are correct on the chews. None of that is good for her. For safety reasons, the only chews I'd give any dog would probably be bully sticks but since Ellie's is allergic to beef and red meat is off the menu, she gets nothing but raw veggies to chew on.

I would brush her teeth though. We use CET vanilla mint toothpaste. Some of their others have meat ingredients. This does contain sorbitol which I hate but I haven't heard of any adverse effects in dogs.

Luckily my Morkie is the most flexible about food, and I do want to keep her healthy. Pending the outcome of Tiki's diagnosis, I have tried to get a quick education on all foods. Then I also have the 13 yr. old schnauzer who has gained a few pounds nibbling on the puppies food over the past few months. I do feed them individually in their own bowls, and they primarily go there, though the kibble that remains after the first feeding is left for free-feeding thru the day. It's getting harder to monitor. Depending on Tiki's special needs I may have to get more diligent on all of it.

Thanks for your input.

[Yorkieluv]

Puppies need more protein than adult dogs, so if you're going to feed the NB Vegetarian, I would add some sort of high quality canned food like Evangers or something like that to your healthy puppy's food until she's "adult".