Home Cooking...who does it?

[Ellie May]

If you can afford $25, you can go to Balance IT's website and buy a recipe. I would buy the one where they tell you how much human vit/min to put in, not the one that calls for Balance IT. I've never done it though, so don't know how good they are.

[Kris Christine]

Denise,

I'm still struggling with the food issue for Butter and am no authority whatsoever. Poor Butter, it seems like everything we learn about food has come the hard way, through major mistakes.

We use calcium citrate because we had to keep from straining Meadow's kidneys when he was battling cancer -- eliminating unnecessary phosphorous cuts down on the "ash" in the kidneys. The NOW calcium citrate we use for Butter has 700 mg of calcium per teaspoon.

Thanks to all the information everyone on this forum shares, I'm still learning!

Kris

[Ladymom]

Originally Posted by Wylie's Mom

That's great to know! Then, that recipe SHOULD have accounted for the rest of the phos. in the meal. But, did the recipe actually *just* say "bone meal" or did it name that specific brand you mentioned (thereby giving you the actual milligrams)? Or, did it tell you actual mgs. in the recipe? Because, you'd have to know that for it to balanced, right? Or, is there something I'm missing? {forgive me, I haven't homecooked in a year now )

No, it just said 1 tsp. bonemeal. None of the diets in the group specified a brand or actual milligrams, Dr. Center's tofu diet included.

[Wylie's Mom]

Originally Posted by Ladymom

No, it just said 1 tsp. bonemeal. None of the diets in the group specified a brand or actual milligrams, Dr. Center's tofu diet included.

Well, darn....was hoping to have a solid example of actual milligram-to-meal recipe. Makes you wonder, doesn't it? This is why I always felt so insecure while cooking for my guys, I just never "felt" I was totally spot on about it.

It seems like there *should* be an easier answer to this question, you know?

[Ladymom]

Originally Posted by Wylie's Mom

Well, darn....was hoping to have a solid example of actual milligram-to-meal recipe. Makes you wonder, doesn't it? This is why I always felt so insecure while cooking for my guys, I just never "felt" I was totally spot on about it.

It seems like there *should* be an easier answer to this question, you know?

Yup, this is why I put off homecooking until I finally ran out of commercial diets Lady could eat.

I feel much more secure with a commercial diet. Lady did fabulously on NV Prairie until the protein source became an issue with her elevated liver values. Her diabetes was beautifully regulated, I rotated through the food so her allergies were great ..... life was good. Sigh.

The good news is that she is doing really well on this diet. No more digestive problems and she is finally gaining weight!

[Ellie May]

Originally Posted by Wylie's Mom

Well, darn....was hoping to have a solid example of actual milligram-to-meal recipe. Makes you wonder, doesn't it? This is why I always felt so insecure while cooking for my guys, I just never "felt" I was totally spot on about it.

It seems like there *should* be an easier answer to this question, you know?

Didn't your nutritionist figure out the supplementation for you?

[pookiebear]

I'm done, thank you all for your input. Have a good evening.

[Wylie's Mom]

Originally Posted by Ellie May

Didn't your nutritionist figure out the supplementation for you?

Yep, she did -- but looking back, when we were working w/ her, Marcel (and Wylie) were on the fish diet and then we moved them to raw. So, the supplementation was per each of their weights, and was according to the fish meal (bc we never proceeded to cooked meats/variety) -- so we never really adjusted anything that would show me an "example" of how it works, you know?

Susan Davis, btw, likes to use egg shell calcium -- which is what I made for the boys back then.

[Ladymom]

Originally Posted by Wylie's Mom

Yep, she did -- but looking back, when we were working w/ her, Marcel (and Wylie) were on the fish diet and then we moved them to raw. So, the supplementation was per each of their weights, and was according to the fish meal (bc we never proceeded to cooked meats/variety) -- so we never really adjusted anything that would show me an "example" of how it works, you know?

Susan Davis, btw, likes to use egg shell calcium -- which is what I made for the boys back then.

I have heard egg shell calcium is the best. I do have the proper dose for them by weight and milligrams!!!!

EGG SHELLS DOSAGE: once a day

10 to 50 lbs 1/8 tsp.
50 to 75 lbs 1/4 tsp.
75 to 100 lbs 1/2 tsp.
100 lbs + 3/4 tsp.

(or if you prefer) OYSTER SHELL CALCIUM DOSAGE: once a day

750 mg tablet or capsule per cup of food

NOTE: you can crush the tablet with a mallet or hammer if your dog spits it out.

If it's oyster shell or egg shell, you don't have to worry about an overdose, because they contain some other things besides the calcium.

Daily dose of oyster shell calcium:

10 to 20 lbs - 300 mg
20 to 40 lbs - 400 mg
40 to 60 lbs - 750 mg
60 to 80 lbs - 1,000 mg
80 to 100 lbs - 1,250 mg
100 to 140 lbs - 1,500 mg

Supplements for Home Cooked Diets - Canine Epilepsy Guardian Angels

[Wylie's Mom]

Originally Posted by Ladymom

I have heard egg shell calcium is the best. I do have the proper dose for them by weight and milligrams!!!!

I have that page too and LOVE it !

So, from there - a person then needs calculate all the phosphorous in the meal and shoot for a 1.2:1 ratio, right? Is that the bottom as you understand it?

I know we're splitting hairs and all...but I'm such a geek, I think this is FUN.

[Ellie May]

Originally Posted by Wylie's Mom

I have that page too and LOVE it !

So, from there - a person then needs calculate all the phosphorous in the meal and shoot for a 1.2:1 ratio, right? Is that the bottom as you understand it?

I know we're splitting hairs and all...but I'm such a geek, I think this is FUN.

Lol, I think it's fun too.
I don't even have to worry about cal/phos with Ellie. The nutritionist said how much supplement and how much meat to use but the meats, carbs and veggies are interchangable (not fish or egg as far as I know). I'm not sure the amount in meat varies enough to change anything if you have a good balanced supplement.

[Wylie's Mom]

Originally Posted by Ellie May

Lol, I think it's fun too.
I don't even have to worry about cal/phos with Ellie. The nutritionist said how much supplement and how much meat to use but the meats, carbs and veggies are interchangable (not fish or egg as far as I know). I'm not sure the amount in meat varies enough to change anything if you have a good balanced supplement.

Glad I'm not the only one who likes this stuff .

Yeah, I think meats largely fall into pretty similar phos levels (except for organ meats maybe). Fish varies quite a bit in phos. But then beans, cheeses, grains -- all change the phos. quite a bit. White rice is much higher in phos than potato, sweet potato higher than white potato.

So, it really does mean a person has to sit down and develop a real meal plan and really be mindful (or work w/ a nutritionist). That's probably where variety is a real benefit too bc where rice might throw things off a bit, potato might bring them into balance --> so variety during a week is probably a very good thing, just like in us humans (how our daily nutrition isn't often proper, but we can still be healthy if we balance out over a few days etc).

[Kris Christine]

We took Butter in to see our homeopathic vet yesterday for an updated checkup on his allergies and to have a blood test to see if anything was out of balance after the lopsided elimination diet we've had him on. My concern was that he may be low on potassium, vitamins, maybe even sodium.

Everything was fine except for, much to my surprise, his calcium level (11.1), which was on the high end of the "normal" range (6.6-11.8) and his phosphorous level (3.1) was on the low end of the "normal" range (2.9-6.6) range, so the vet recommended we lower the calcium citrate from 1.5 teaspoons per pound of meat to 1.25 teaspoons per pound of meat. This was the one nutrient I thought we had a handle on!

Our vet feeds her own animals a raw diet and annually does a CBC test to make sure nothing is out of balance -- I think we're going to do the same from now on. For what it's worth from Butter's human still trying to strike the proper balance in Maine.

Kris

[Wylie's Mom]

Originally Posted by Kris Christine

We took Butter in to see our homeopathic vet yesterday for an updated checkup on his allergies and to have a blood test to see if anything was out of balance after the lopsided elimination diet we've had him on. My concern was that he may be low on potassium, vitamins, maybe even sodium.

Everything was fine except for, much to my surprise, his calcium level (11.1), which was on the high end of the "normal" range (6.6-11.8) and his phosphorous level (3.1) was on the low end of the "normal" range (2.9-6.6) range, so the vet recommended we lower the calcium citrate from 1.5 teaspoons per pound of meat to 1.25 teaspoons per pound of meat. This was the one nutrient I thought we had a handle on!

Our vet feeds her own animals a raw diet and annually does a CBC test to make sure nothing is out of balance -- I think we're going to do the same from now on. For what it's worth from Butter's human still trying to strike the proper balance in Maine.

Thanks for sharing that Kris!! It's a great example of just how complicated and delicate the balancing truly is in homecooking. I know there are a lot folks on here who don't supplement at all (or just toss in a multi) -- and their pets are really in danger, in my opinion. You've put a ton of effort into balancing properly - and still it's a bit off and needs fine tuning as you said, despite every best effort. Homecooking just isn't as easy as some think. GREAT EXAMPLE.

I used to homecook but switched to raw quite awhile back. The main reasons I switched were 1) the more I researched it, I felt it was more species appropriate and 2) I didn't want to live long-term wondering if my guys' diets were in balance.

How great that you have a vet who feeds raw! That is indeed a rarity - I would love a vet such as that!

[Ellie May]

Originally Posted by Kris Christine

We took Butter in to see our homeopathic vet yesterday for an updated checkup on his allergies and to have a blood test to see if anything was out of balance after the lopsided elimination diet we've had him on. My concern was that he may be low on potassium, vitamins, maybe even sodium.

Everything was fine except for, much to my surprise, his calcium level (11.1), which was on the high end of the "normal" range (6.6-11.8) and his phosphorous level (3.1) was on the low end of the "normal" range (2.9-6.6) range, so the vet recommended we lower the calcium citrate from 1.5 teaspoons per pound of meat to 1.25 teaspoons per pound of meat. This was the one nutrient I thought we had a handle on!

Our vet feeds her own animals a raw diet and annually does a CBC test to make sure nothing is out of balance -- I think we're going to do the same from now on. For what it's worth from Butter's human still trying to strike the proper balance in Maine.

Kris

Annual blood work is a necessity for seniors and would benefit all dogs but I hesitate to use it as any kind of indication that homecooking or raw is in the right proportion. From my understanding, calcium is stored in the bones and when the body is low, it takes it from the bones. So the calcium in the blood can be normal but the whole time the bones are being depleted...

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong?
I am definately not a supplementation expert.

This is a quote from Ellie's nutritionist, Dr. Remillard:
"A veterinarian should examine your pet regularly (2-3 visits/yr), while eating exclusively a homemade diet, and please inform your veterinarian that your pet is eating a homemade diet. There are no additional tests to recommend while your pet is on a homemade diet because there are no accurate "tests" of nutritional status. Your veterinarian may perform a few routine overall evaluations of red and white blood cells, serum proteins and electrolytes as part of an annual checkup. These tests are only very broad overall indications of nutritional status and not specific to any nutrient intake. The best overall indication of nutritional health is your pet's body weight, activity level, normal skin and eyes, more specifically, the lens and retina."