First raw meal! Is raw meat all she gets now?

[abbie's mom]

IF he's still hungry, maybe give him 1/2 a medallion. I don't feed pre-packaged, so perhaps someone who does will come along with more advise.

Feeding kibble is negative economy. Neither you nor your pup gets anything out of it.

[golddusty]

Thanks Abbie's Mom for your reply.

[Franceen]

Hi abbie's mom

Hope you are not getting tired of all the questions! I have some more!!

I have got Tootsy used to the raw beef now, but haven't added the organ meat yet. Does it have to be beef liver, beef heart, beef kidney or can I add chicken liver, heart and kidneys? I have been giving her chopped lean muscle meat - topside and other lean roasting cuts. I also want to include the bone - would brisket bone with meat on be suitable? Isn't that the rib part of the animal so not a weight bearing part? You didn't say whether the oxtail is okay for her to have?

I have still being feeding the cooked chicken and, strangely enough, I think that the cooked chicken is the cause of her tummy not been right! I want to try it raw. I let her sniff it and she licked it but didn't show any sign of wanting to actually eat it. I will try it next though. I just want to get the organ meats, added to the beef diet first. Doing this way - one meat at a time, as you suggested - I can be sure of which meat is causing a problem, if any problem arises.

As for feeding the amount of 2-3% of raw meat per the weight of the dog. Tootsy is a little overweight now -10lbs and I want to get her back to 8-9lbs. If I feed 3% of say 9lbs that's just over 4oz - is this correct? Is this per meal or per day? I give her that in the morning, but she has two other meals as well!! I tried to give her 2oz but she wasn't satisfied. Perhaps if I give it on the bone, eg. the brisket or oxtail, she will be more satisfied?

Do you give your furbaby any supplements? What about their livers - is this high protein diet going to compromise their livers in the long term? Do you give your baby any supplement for joints or any calcium?

Is the frozen fish that I buy in a packet (little bricketts of cod) safe to feed raw once it has defrosted?

Sorry about all the many questions. I really do need my hand held just at the moment.

Luv

Franceen xx

[abbie's mom]

Originally Posted by Franceen

Hi abbie's mom

Hope you are not getting tired of all the questions! I have some more!!

Hi Franceen

Not tired of questions, at all. That's how we learn. I am a bit tied up with the Valentines Ball, though; so will get back to you. OK? Perhaps someone else will come along sooner than I can...?

Also suggest you join this group. There are many veteran prey model feeders there. And, remember - no question is too silly!

hugs,
ada

[dabrat76]

Originally Posted by Franceen

Hi abbie's mom

Hope you are not getting tired of all the questions! I have some more!!

I have got Tootsy used to the raw beef now, but haven't added the organ meat yet. Does it have to be beef liver, beef heart, beef kidney or can I add chicken liver, heart and kidneys? I have been giving her chopped lean muscle meat - topside and other lean roasting cuts. I also want to include the bone - would brisket bone with meat on be suitable? Isn't that the rib part of the animal so not a weight bearing part? You didn't say whether the oxtail is okay for her to have?

For the organs, as there are no bones, they can be from any animal I believe. I've been told to avoid beef organs at first as they are very strong in taste which could turn our pups off. I THINK (liver is liver to me, so I didn't pay close attention) I started off with pork liver. But SoCo's gotten chicken, turkey, pork organs and except for kidney he polishes them off in under 2 minutes. I've never seen a brisket bone (brisket isn't popular here in Canada) but I don't think there are any beef bones that are good. You'll have to wait on Ada for that one! Same for oxtail, I've never heard of that...

Originally Posted by Franceen

I have still being feeding the cooked chicken and, strangely enough, I think that the cooked chicken is the cause of her tummy not been right! I want to try it raw. I let her sniff it and she licked it but didn't show any sign of wanting to actually eat it. I will try it next though. I just want to get the organ meats, added to the beef diet first. Doing this way - one meat at a time, as you suggested - I can be sure of which meat is causing a problem, if any problem arises.

That's definitely the best way to go if you suspect allergies.

Originally Posted by Franceen

As for feeding the amount of 2-3% of raw meat per the weight of the dog. Tootsy is a little overweight now -10lbs and I want to get her back to 8-9lbs. If I feed 3% of say 9lbs that's just over 4oz - is this correct? Is this per meal or per day? I give her that in the morning, but she has two other meals as well!! I tried to give her 2oz but she wasn't satisfied. Perhaps if I give it on the bone, eg. the brisket or oxtail, she will be more satisfied?

This link will help with alot of your questions but it's 2-3% of their desired body weight per DAY. http://rawfed.com/myths/feedraw.html

Originally Posted by Franceen

Do you give your furbaby any supplements? What about their livers - is this high protein diet going to compromise their livers in the long term? Do you give your baby any supplement for joints or any calcium?

I don't, but I may in the future... they don't need supplements and I haven't really thought about it too much. Excessive protein can be a concern (nothing is without risk), so if you think Tootsy may have liver issues, I strongly recommend getting her tested. Then make a decision from there.

Originally Posted by Franceen

Is the frozen fish that I buy in a packet (little bricketts of cod) safe to feed raw once it has defrosted?

Sorry about all the many questions. I really do need my hand held just at the moment.

Luv

Franceen xx

I haven't started with fish yet, I may though since some of it is quite cheap, I just need to research more about the bones, what types of fish, etc.

Hope that helps, keep asking questions, we all learn when you do!

Tara

[abbie's mom]

Originally Posted by dabrat76

I don't think there are any beef bones that are good. You'll have to wait on Ada for that one! Same for oxtail, I've never heard of that...

I haven't found any beef bones I'm comfy giving Abigail. Teeny tiny teeth . Now, IF Mozart would eat them, he could handle steak or the thinner ribs. Note: these are NOT weight-bearing bones.

I've tried oxtail; but, neither of mine care for it. It's too big for Abigail to manage. Let us know if you try it!

I try to get enough fish in mine so as not to need fish oil caps; but, seriously doubt I'm reaching their optimum, as they kinda don't like fish. I feed salmon, and rock (in season). Mine like it partially frozen. My problem with Abigail is finding an oil cap small enough for her. I absolutely cannot abide the salmon oil. I know many people swear by it; but, we must do what we can live with, too - and, I just can't live with her smelling 'fishy' all the time.

[Franceen]

Thanks so much for these replies tara & ada - it is such a help!

This morning Tootsy refused to eat raw meat! I ended up giving her some cooked chicken. She seems to have a post nasal drip, as she is swallowing a lot, and we all have that at the moment. (Maybe I have made a mistake thinking that the cooked chicken upset her - it is something that she has eaten for years. I will see how I go.) I am in two minds about offering the raw meat again today perhaps I should see if she will eat it. I tried to give her some Nutrical, as I think she may have a sore throat like we have - she is showing the symptoms - but she doesn't like it! Any ideas on how to get her to eat it. How do these capsules work that you mentioned, tara? Do you try and get them to swallow them? I can see a HUGE fight on my hands if I tried to do that with Tootsy! Perhaps you can give me some tips on how to do it and how they work as well, please?

Thanks again.

Luv
Yvonne

[omega]

Originally Posted by Franceen

Thanks so much for these replies tara & ada - it is such a help!

This morning Tootsy refused to eat raw meat! I ended up giving her some cooked chicken. She seems to have a post nasal drip, as she is swallowing a lot, and we all have that at the moment. (Maybe I have made a mistake thinking that the cooked chicken upset her - it is something that she has eaten for years. I will see how I go.) I am in two minds about offering the raw meat again today perhaps I should see if she will eat it. I tried to give her some Nutrical, as I think she may have a sore throat like we have - she is showing the symptoms - but she doesn't like it! Any ideas on how to get her to eat it. How do these capsules work that you mentioned, tara? Do you try and get them to swallow them? I can see a HUGE fight on my hands if I tried to do that with Tootsy! Perhaps you can give me some tips on how to do it and how they work as well, please?

Thanks again.

Luv
Yvonne

Personally, I would not cook the meat for her if she doesn't eat. She will learn that she can get what she wants by refusing the raw.

I had one that wouldn't eat a few times so I took her food away and she waited till the next meal - which she did eat. (I feed twice a day) She is only 4 lbs so I had to be careful that she didn't go too long without food. She learned pretty quickly though.

Another of mine was doing fine on the raw (prey model) and one morning just wasn't interested. She acted like she wasn't hungry, so I put her food away till the next meal. No problems. They will not starve if they skip one meal.

Mine don't like Nutrical either. Are you sure she needs it? If she does, maybe you could put some on the roof of her mouth or put it on her nose and she will lick it off.

I was reading about the weight thing and I know mine have gained some weight on this diet. I am cutting back now. At first the amount seemed so small that I added extra but now see that I didn't need to. Mine still act like they are hungry when they're done but I know they've had enough and dogs DO overeat. They just want more cause it's good food! (kind of like me with chocolate )

Mine get 1 to 1-1/2 oz. per meal. That is such a small amount, but then I have to remember they are small dogs!!! I still weigh it sometimes to be sure they're not getting too much again, but am learning how to know the portion size without weighing.

Mine are eating beef, chicken/with bones, turkey, game hens, pork and have tried salmon once. Game hens are a great size for our little ones. I have beef and chicken liver and gizzards on hand, too. They get some type of bone once a day. I use chicken backs and necks mostly.

Although on the necks, I pound them a bit with a hammer so they are not round anymore. Their normal shape and size could cause choking, so I just get rid of the shape a little bit to be safe. I ordered the necks and backs from the local butcher and got a box weighing 47 lbs! I have fed pork riblets with the bones and they loved them! I also use chicken thighs often - each of my girls gets half of one with the bone. I want to try rabbit but have yet to find any that is easy to get ahold of.

Geez, long winded here....

[Franceen]

That was SO helpful, omega, thank you so much! I will do as you say and just keep offering the raw until she gives in. You have given me lots of really good ideas for meals, so know I know what to get from the farm I buy my meat from.

I wondered about the chicken necks. You say that you pound them a bit but won't that break some of the neck bones and make them sharp? You must have got a shock when the butcher sent you 47lbs of necks and backs!!

I still have the raw beef in the fridge from yesterday morning - is it still safe to give it to her tomorrow? It would have been out one night to defrost and 2 days in the fridge, mostly ( I left it down for her for an hour or so).

She is not eating well today and I feel it is this virus. She isn't swallowing so much today but I don't think she is well yet. She wanted to go to the beach this morning for a walk and cried and cried, but we felt it was too risky taking her out in the icy wind. (Whenever she sees a blue sky in the morning she wants to go to the beach no matter how cold it is outside!) We live next to the beach so this is why we can take her frequently.

Thanks again for your help.

Luv

Yvonne xx

[Franceen]

Oh, I meant to ask you whether you have noticed a difference in your furkids since they have been eating raw?

Luv

Yvonne xx

[omega]

Originally Posted by Franceen

That was SO helpful, omega, thank you so much! I will do as you say and just keep offering the raw until she gives in. You have given me lots of really good ideas for meals, so know I know what to get from the farm I buy my meat from.

I wondered about the chicken necks. You say that you pound them a bit but won't that break some of the neck bones and make them sharp? You must have got a shock when the butcher sent you 47lbs of necks and backs!!

I still have the raw beef in the fridge from yesterday morning - is it still safe to give it to her tomorrow? It would have been out one night to defrost and 2 days in the fridge, mostly ( I left it down for her for an hour or so).

She is not eating well today and I feel it is this virus. She isn't swallowing so much today but I don't think she is well yet. She wanted to go to the beach this morning for a walk and cried and cried, but we felt it was too risky taking her out in the icy wind. (Whenever she sees a blue sky in the morning she wants to go to the beach no matter how cold it is outside!) We live next to the beach so this is why we can take her frequently.

Thanks again for your help.

Luv

Yvonne xx

Your welcome! We prey feeders have to stick together!

No, the bones don't get sharp - that happens when they are cooked. You don't have to worry about the raw ones. I alway stay in sight while they are eating - just in case. I haven't run into any problems yet.

Yes, that beef should be just fine to feed them. You can also refreeze meat for the dogs.

Maybe while she is feeling a bit sick you could give her small pieces of meat so it would be easier for her to swallow and she wouldn't have to work as hard to eat it.

I think mine like beef the best. At least they gobble it up faster than anything else.

[omega]

Originally Posted by Franceen

Oh, I meant to ask you whether you have noticed a difference in your furkids since they have been eating raw?

Luv

Yvonne xx

I had them on pre made raw half the time for over a year, so they were kind of used to it. Now that they are totally on the prey model, I have noticed they seem to be calmer. They still play a lot and run around like crazy at times, but also seem calmer somehow. After they eat, they play for a while and then take a nice long nap. I'm assuming that is "food digesting" time.

I put old towels on the floor for them to eat on. They really get excited when they see the towels. I have darker towels for them to eat on and pink towels for their baths. When they see the pink towels, they run and hide. LOL. Makes me wonder about the color blindness.

[Franceen]

Thanks for the replies, omega. You have really been a great help to me.

She has a little diarrhea today and didn't eat much. I put her back onto chicken and rice (cooked) until she is over it. She will pick things up on the beach and eat them! I am sure this causes the upset tummy sometimes. She puts up a terrific fight, when I try and take whatever it is, out of her mouth. The other morning she fought so hard that all her clothes came off as well as her lead, but she didn't let go for a second!! She is SO determined. I really am thinking of getting her a muzzle, as this will stop her doing this and also stop her attacking other dogs! What a little handful she is! We just adore her, though. You probably think she is a brat now, but she really isn't She is a very loving, cuddly and a sweet little dog 99% of the time - she is just very determined about some things. She was taken straight home after this little performance and told that she was really naughty in a firm voice. She sulked for a very short time and then came and gave me kisses. Eventually she will realise that she will be taken home if she misbehaves badly, but it will take time to change this behaviour. I cannot stay cross with her for more than a couple of minutes and I don't think you should, anyway.

She knows just how to melt our hearts. If one of us is lying down,she will jump onto your chest and stretch out her back legs so that her warm little tummy is on you. She then puts one paw on each side of your neck and gives you very gentle little kisses on the cheeks, mouth, nose. Then she just lays there and looks at you with such love in her eyes - it is so precious. I have never had a dog do this before. I think it must be very unusual?

Luv

Yvonne xx

[abbie's mom]

Originally Posted by Franceen

She has a little diarrhea today and didn't eat much. I put her back onto chicken and rice (cooked) until she is over it.

Hi Yvonne,

Wondering what purpose the rice is for? Rice is a grain, and one of the hardest things for dogs to digest.

[omega]

Originally Posted by Franceen

Thanks for the replies, omega. You have really been a great help to me.

She has a little diarrhea today and didn't eat much. I put her back onto chicken and rice (cooked) until she is over it. She will pick things up on the beach and eat them! I am sure this causes the upset tummy sometimes. She puts up a terrific fight, when I try and take whatever it is, out of her mouth. The other morning she fought so hard that all her clothes came off as well as her lead, but she didn't let go for a second!! She is SO determined. I really am thinking of getting her a muzzle, as this will stop her doing this and also stop her attacking other dogs! What a little handful she is! We just adore her, though. You probably think she is a brat now, but she really isn't She is a very loving, cuddly and a sweet little dog 99% of the time - she is just very determined about some things. She was taken straight home after this little performance and told that she was really naughty in a firm voice. She sulked for a very short time and then came and gave me kisses. Eventually she will realise that she will be taken home if she misbehaves badly, but it will take time to change this behaviour. I cannot stay cross with her for more than a couple of minutes and I don't think you should, anyway.

She knows just how to melt our hearts. If one of us is lying down,she will jump onto your chest and stretch out her back legs so that her warm little tummy is on you. She then puts one paw on each side of your neck and gives you very gentle little kisses on the cheeks, mouth, nose. Then she just lays there and looks at you with such love in her eyes - it is so precious. I have never had a dog do this before. I think it must be very unusual?

Luv

Yvonne xx

My maltese does this, too. It is soooooo sweet and endearing. Yep, it just melts your heart.