Bile acid test question

[marcerella02]

I've noticed that there have been a lot of threads about this lately... is this a test that EVERY yorkie should have healthy or not.. or just when you suspect that something is wrong...

[Ellie May]

Most people just test when there is a problem. I think all Yorkies should be tested since they are 36 times more likely to have LS than any other breed. Besides, MVD can be asymptomatic. You wouldn't end up finding out about it til symptoms show up (maybe as late as age 8) and you could have been supplementing and helping the liver all that time. It is really what you are comfortable with but all my Yorkies will be tested...

[Ladymom]

Dr. Center of Cornell, who invented the bile acids test, recommends that all puppies have a bile acids test before going to their new home with sixteen weeks being the ideal time.

Since the study by Dr. Tobias at the University of Tennessee found that Yorkies are thirty-six times more likely to have liver shunts than all other breeds combined, I think anyone buying a Yorkie puppy should insist on it.

Just a routine CBC, usually not done until the spay/neuter, often won't show any liver abnormalities and a dog with MVD can be asymptomatic.

[Yorkieluv]

I agree with Ellie May and Ladymom...All yorkies, IMHO, should be bile acid tested...A blood panel will only show a problem with the liver if it is already 70% damaged, so it is important to specify that you want a Bile Acid Test.

[TLC]

Here is a perfect example. Roxy and TJ show NO signs of liver shunt. I never even knew what MVD was. Both have had routine blood work and nothing strange about it.

My groomer purchased 2 yorkies from the same place mine came from, she also told me that a customer also purchased a male from them too. The male died after 9 months, and one of her females has a compromised liver.

So, off to the Vet we went to get Both Roxy and TJ Bile Acid Tested.

Well, THANK GOD I did, and my Vet said that as well too, b/c he would have NEVER suggested it.

Roxy's post # was 100.9 - That's very high, I think it should be under 20 - They say 100 and above is LS territory

Thankful, after some testing, etc...We do believe that Roxy has MVD, although I won't know for sure, I'd have to get a liver biopsy and I am not sure about that just yet.

TJ's post # was 43 - High again too

I retested BAT 2 months after. Roxy's post # came down to 67 and TJ to 21.5

Since August they have been on a special diet and supplements. I have an appt to retest BAT again on 1/21 - I am hoping that TJ's # stay low. Roxy I am sure will still have a high #, but I am hope for as low as possible.

So, YES - I too recommend BAT - It's relatively inexpensive. It's $80 here on Long Island, NY

[marcerella02]

Thank you all so much! When layla goes to the vet in march... for blood work for heartworm... and shots.. i'll ask for a BAT .... makes me nervous... lol... but i guess it is better to know for sure then know too late.. although i'm sure she is fine... i emailed her breeder and her adults get BAT and all have turned out fine.. but better safe than sorry. Thanks again guys!

[GinosMommy]

I had Gino's done when he went in for Neuter

[Ellie May]

Originally Posted by marcerella02

Thank you all so much! When layla goes to the vet in march... for blood work for heartworm... and shots.. i'll ask for a BAT .... makes me nervous... lol... but i guess it is better to know for sure then know too late.. although i'm sure she is fine... i emailed her breeder and her adults get BAT and all have turned out fine.. but better safe than sorry. Thanks again guys!

Good choice. I'm sure she's fine though. Maybe ask your vet before they do the blood panel so they can draw at the same time? She will have to be fasted for 12 hours. That way her blood will only have to be drawn twice (pre meal and post meal for bile acids). If you do the panel at the same time you can avoid an extra draw.

[Yorkieluv]

Dr. Center says its okay to run the serum bile acid test without a 12 hour fast now, so that's good news for those who have tiny yorkies!!

[sadiesamie]

Originally Posted by Yorkieluv

Dr. Center says its okay to run the serum bile acid test without a 12 hour fast now, so that's good news for those who have tiny yorkies!!

I have a question... my samie had a bile acid test done on 12/19/07. pre was: 15.0 and post 25.0. the vet presribed antibiotic and also a 30 day supply of Denamarin (which i researched this to be a liver supplement)

we did her follow up bile acid test this past saturday to and got a call today to find that now her pre was: 3 and post is now 79. Vet now says to do a collagulation test 48 hrs before and wants to do a untrasound and biopsy. she did the trial and error thing with my other Yorkie and 3000.00 later we discovered the problem. she is a very good vet but fresh out of school maybe 5 yrs so i am worried she is getting test happy now with our little one samie. She told my husband that it could be cancer, hepatitis or infection. of course i am worried out of my mind and we are very concerned. My husband does not want to do anything more until we research.

could this denamarin through off her numbers? i am worried sick! I don't understand how her post number could go up so high after just one month. Also none of this blood work was done until we had a collapsing trachea episode a month ago. dog shows no signs of anything wrong at all. If anything she has been doing extremely well. I don't get it? I appreciate any help or advice.

[marcerella02]

i have NO clue but just a suggestion that you post your question in the Sick section.. people are more likely to visit a thread with no posts than they are to RE visit this post and there are TONS Of people on here with expereince with this... hope this helps!

[Yorkieluv]

The denamarin probably wouldn't throw it off...It's meant to help the liver. Numbers should go down...How many days was your baby on antibiotics?
You might try a different supplement...Hepatosupport might be a better option as far as liver supplements go. 79 is definitely abnormal, but it could be many different things...Did you change anything at all in her diet during this time? Any different treats or snacks or anything?

[sadiesamie]

Originally Posted by Yorkieluv

The denamarin probably wouldn't throw it off...It's meant to help the liver. Numbers should go down...How many days was your baby on antibiotics?
You might try a different supplement...Hepatosupport might be a better option as far as liver supplements go. 79 is definitely abnormal, but it could be many different things...Did you change anything at all in her diet during this time? Any different treats or snacks or anything?

She was on antibiotics for 2 wks. and it's been 2 wks also since her last antibiotic. she was on the Denamarin for 30 days. Yes- i have added a couple things. I have started giving her more of the Wellness canned food but not a lot more. At first with her only her meds only and as an occasional treat. But the past 2 wks i did start adding some of the canned to her food. Not more than maybe a tablespoon. and only once a day. not with both meals. I also started giving Natural balance duck and potato treats- very small amounts maybe 1 or 2 tiny tiny pieces a day. and also the wellness well bites as a morning treat. but such a small amount. we are still watching the weight with her so i don't over do it.

She always had the canned before when giving meds -it was innova senior formula. but since my other dog was still itching bad i changed to wellness canned food and also added the wellness well bites (venison) bc the specialist we saw said good protein found in venison was really good for them. I sure hope that by me doing this may have caused the increase in her bat. do you think?

[Yorkieluv]

If she does have MVD, liver shunt, or a liver disease like that, any type of food with red meat like venison would not be good for her at all...Venison is good for healthy dogs but not liver compromised dogs....Red meat produces the most amount of toxins and overworks their livers...Also, duck is not recommended for liver compromised dogs because of the tryptophan..

If she has a liver condition, these foods may have caused the increase in the bile acid test results...But if this is the case, then obviously these foods are not optimal for her and it points towards liver problems...
Did they do other bloodwork the last time you took her in? If so, what was her ALT?
How old is Samie?

I do not recommend having an ultrasound liver biopsy done because the sample is so tiny that it might not show abnormalities in the liver... If you do a biopsy, make sure they actually go in and take several samples not through needle biopsy...

If you have an ultrasound done, make sure it is a doppler u/s...Remember, a u/s is only as good as the person reading it...Just because they don't see a shunt does not mean she does not have one. A u/s will show if the liver is normal size or atrophied and will show if there are any stones/crystals in the bladder...Other than that, I would not count on it showing a shunt.

An u/s also won't show if there is MVD. The only way to confirm MVD is to do a biopsy.

It's hard to say what to do next...It depends what you want to do...

There is a protein C test also...

Keep in mind, there are several things that can cause the bile acid test results to be high, so it may not even be MVD or liver shunt, but with yorkies being 36 times more likely to have this than all other breeds combined, it's always good to rule it out.

[sadiesamie]

Originally Posted by Yorkieluv

If she does have MVD, liver shunt, or a liver disease like that, any type of food with red meat like venison would not be good for her at all...Venison is good for healthy dogs but not liver compromised dogs....Red meat produces the most amount of toxins and overworks their livers...Also, duck is not recommended for liver compromised dogs because of the tryptophan..

If she has a liver condition, these foods may have caused the increase in the bile acid test results...But if this is the case, then obviously these foods are not optimal for her and it points towards liver problems...
Did they do other bloodwork the last time you took her in? If so, what was her ALT?
How old is Samie?

I do not recommend having an ultrasound liver biopsy done because the sample is so tiny that it might not show abnormalities in the liver... If you do a biopsy, make sure they actually go in and take several samples not through needle biopsy...

If you have an ultrasound done, make sure it is a doppler u/s...Remember, a u/s is only as good as the person reading it...Just because they don't see a shunt does not mean she does not have one. A u/s will show if the liver is normal size or atrophied and will show if there are any stones/crystals in the bladder...Other than that, I would not count on it showing a shunt.

An u/s also won't show if there is MVD. The only way to confirm MVD is to do a biopsy.

It's hard to say what to do next...It depends what you want to do...

There is a protein C test also...

Keep in mind, there are several things that can cause the bile acid test results to be high, so it may not even be MVD or liver shunt, but with yorkies being 36 times more likely to have this than all other breeds combined, it's always good to rule it out.

Last blood work that i have was back in 7/07
Samie's last reading for her ALT was 25 (normal says b/w 5-107)
she is 9 1/2 yrs old

I am just thinking that the vet is jumping the gun here. she is very test happy! we learned that with my other yorkie. I want Samie to see a specialist. (the same one my other dog saw)