Oxalate Crystals in urine...

[sadiesamie]

Has anyone discover oxalate crystals? the vet (in february) switched my little Samie to Purina Veterninary Prescription diet NF formula. The main ingredient is corn and she has had severe scooting going on. i think she is allergic to this food so we just switched her diet to the Canidae (all stages formula). she has shown improvement in only 3 days. I am wondering if anyone is familar with these crystals. The vet said she may be producing kidney stones but we have not done xrays or anything yet. part of the reason is my little one suffers trachea collapse at the vet. due to the fact that she gets so excited there and she pants and then her panting gets heavier and heavier. she has turned blue also. at home she does ok. her little tongue did turn blue last night when she drank water too fast and she started the coughing/honking. scared the heck out of me.

Appreciate any info anyone has on crystals. I don't know if this is major concern and if it was necessary to put her on the NF pres diet. alls i know is i could not bare to see her scoot anymore from discomfort so i switched her to the canidae. she is still eating 50% of the kidney nf food as we are still going through the phase out of the old and introducing the new. but she has shown a lot of improvement. i just hope i am not making a mistake by taking her off of the pres diet nf formula. she is only 7 lbs and she has had been scooting bad since we started the food in february.

i have read everyone on YT that "corn" is horrible for yorkies diet and the MAIN ingredient in this kidney function food is CORN. My other yorkie Sadie also recently developed skin irritation. her whole body was bright PINK.3

below are the readings from samies first and second urinalysis:

2/16/07- ph: 6.0 protein 100 spec gravity: 1.035 crystals: 3+ oxalate crystals. comments: amophoa debris- start NF diet.

4/14/07- glucose: neg bilirubin: small ketone: neg blood: neg ph: 8.0 protein: 30+ urobilinogen: normal nitrate: neg leukocytes: neg spec gravity: 1.030 crystals" 2+ oxalate crystals comments: amorphous debris

I have no idea what any of these values mean... does anyone else? are we in danger zone? is this serious? i am so clueless...

[Yorkieluv]

Hi, and I'm sorry to hear that your baby has oxalate crystals...I am not a vet, but have been dealing with stones and crystals with my baby for almost 3 yrs now. He has ammonium urate stones, but I have done research on calcium oxalate stones as well...Here is a link showing you a chart of foods that are low oxalate. You need to stay away from any foods that are medium or high oxalate because they will cause more crystals. http://www.branwen.com/rowan/oxalate.htm
Calcium oxalate stones form in acidic urine, so you kind of want to feed more alkalizing foods. Here is another link with very useful information on that. http://www.b-naturals.com/Dec2002.php Stay away from feeding kidney and organ meats like that.
Also, you need to feed foods that are high in moisture. You should be feeding equal parts of food and water if your baby is on dry food. Wet food is preferable because it helps keep the urine diluted and that's your goal so that she can try to pass these stones. The longer they stay in her bladder, they can start accumulating and making a much larger stone/crystal.
Encourage her to drink more water. You can also give your baby a juiced zucchini in the mornings to help get moisture in her, and it's a low oxalate food, so it's good for her.
Calcium oxalate stones do Not dissolve, so your best bet is to keep her urine diluted to try to help her pass these.

[sadiesamie]

Originally Posted by Yorkieluv

Hi, and I'm sorry to hear that your baby has oxalate crystals...I am not a vet, but have been dealing with stones and crystals with my baby for almost 3 yrs now. He has ammonium urate stones, but I have done research on calcium oxalate stones as well...Here is a link showing you a chart of foods that are low oxalate. You need to stay away from any foods that are medium or high oxalate because they will cause more crystals. http://www.branwen.com/rowan/oxalate.htm
Calcium oxalate stones form in acidic urine, so you kind of want to feed more alkalizing foods. Here is another link with very useful information on that. http://www.b-naturals.com/Dec2002.php Stay away from feeding kidney and organ meats like that.
Also, you need to feed foods that are high in moisture. You should be feeding equal parts of food and water if your baby is on dry food. Wet food is preferable because it helps keep the urine diluted and that's your goal so that she can try to pass these stones. The longer they stay in her bladder, they can start accumulating and making a much larger stone/crystal.
Encourage her to drink more water. You can also give your baby a juiced zucchini in the mornings to help get moisture in her, and it's a low oxalate food, so it's good for her.
Calcium oxalate stones do Not dissolve, so your best bet is to keep her urine diluted to try to help her pass these.

do you think i made a wrong choice switching her to canidae? she seems to do better and scoot less. when you say "juiced zucchini" what do you mean by that. a slice of zucchini? :-) i want to try that. gosh- thanks for the info you provided. i really think the corn in the NF kidney formula was doing her more harm than good. it caused her more problems.

[dwerten]

Originally Posted by sadiesamie

do you think i made a wrong choice switching her to canidae? she seems to do better and scoot less. when you say "juiced zucchini" what do you mean by that. a slice of zucchini? :-) i want to try that. gosh- thanks for the info you provided. i really think the corn in the NF kidney formula was doing her more harm than good. it caused her more problems.

you need to get a juicer and juice the zuccini as easier to digest juiced vegetables- zuccini is a natural cleanser of the body

my friend rosie also heard and just told me about this that putting a little bit of lemon in their water can prevent kidney stones not too much to where the water is bitter though and to change water twice a day

i use distilled bottled water and spring water i switch off as helped my maltese with eyes so no pink around them ( bacteria)

[sadiesamie]

the nf kidney formula says: 12% moisture. the canidae (what we just put her on- says 10 % moisture.

i also am giving her small amounts of innova (canned food) and it contains 78% moisture. that has got to be really good for her based on the info you sent me.

do you have any info on the protein level? because if too much protein makes crystals worse-

the rest of the ingredients on the innova canned food say:

turkey, turkey broth,chicken broth,chicken,brown rice,salmon,mackarel,potatoes,carrots,herring,natu ral flavor, apples,alfalfa sprouts,cottage cheese,whole egg,seaweed extract,potassium chloride,and a lot more,,, but that is the beginning ingredients. do you think this might be a good choice for her? i want to feed her dry kibble also. i am going to check the ingredients on the dry canidae all stages formula i have. :-) gosh such a learning experiece for me...

[sadiesamie]

Originally Posted by dwerten

you need to get a juicer and juice the zuccini as easier to digest juiced vegetables- zuccini is a natural cleanser of the body

my friend rosie also heard and just told me about this that putting a little bit of lemon in their water can prevent kidney stones not too much to where the water is bitter though and to change water twice a day

i use distilled bottled water and spring water i switch off as helped my maltese with eyes so no pink around them ( bacteria)

yeah i am thinking on switching their water also. our faucet water tastes nasty. even i don't drink it. i would have never thought of giving them a different water. i am going to pick up some distilled water today.

[sadiesamie]

so you mix spring water and distilled together? or do you use spring one day and distilled the next?

[Yorkieluv]

The lemon would be good in some cases, but her urine is already too acidic, you need to try to alkalize it a bit, not acidify it, and lemons are acidic. I also use distilled water with my furbabies It doesn't have the minerals which could be bad for the stones/crystals, and I also have a maltese, and I don't want tear staining.

[sadiesamie]

Originally Posted by Yorkieluv

The lemon would be good in some cases, but her urine is already too acidic, you need to try to alkalize it a bit, not acidify it, and lemons are acidic. I also use distilled water with my furbabies It doesn't have the minerals which could be bad for the stones/crystals, and I also have a maltese, and I don't want tear staining.

should i maybe do w/o the distilled water and do the spring water only. i have cranberry pills too that can help alkalize her urine. the vet suggested that but i was nervous to give them to her. right now i am focusing on high moisture and the canidae seems good. but she needs more moisture in her diet. do you think the cranb pill would be beneficial. i don't know what to feed? i went with the canidae b/c everyone on YT said it was the best. but with samies crystal issues i need to find out what kibble form is best for her. so do i look for high moisture and low protein? my husband hates that i am giving her "any" canned food. it creates very loose stools. firm stools are best for emptying her anal glands.

i wish someone could tell me- feed her this: ..... and i would go buy it. i am so uneducated and worried she wont be on the best food. cost is not a factor what so ever. thanks for all of your help. you are so kind to help me with this and sending such valuable information. i will get the juicer and some zucchini tooooo.... :-) xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx..........

[Yorkieluv]

I would recommend distilled water. That's what several vets have told me regarding crystals/stones.
Sorry, I'm not familiar with the cranberry pills, so I can't really give advice on that.
As far as foods are concerned...Vets usually prescribe Hill's u/d, but I do not like the ingredients in it, and I won't feed it to my dog. He had seizures for the short time that he was on that food. I wish I could tell you which food to give your baby, but we homecook.
One thing you could do though...There's a nutritionist/dietician at the University of Tennessee who will formulate a homemade diet specific to your dog's health needs. I think she charges around $150??? I'm not sure, but that might be an option.
Otherwise, if you feed the dry Canidae, you should really serve it with equal parts water, meaning if you feed 1/4 cup of Canidae per feeding, add 1/4 cup of water to it. But don't let it sit out like that...Your baby would need to eat it right then, not to be left out all day. I understand that your husband does not want to feed canned food, but if it comes to your furbaby's overall health, I think it might be necessary. As long as you clean her teeth with a baby finger toothbrush or petzlife oral gel, your dog's teeth should be fine.
Those stones will not come out if her urine is not diluted enough...

[sadiesamie]

Yeah i am leaning towards the canned or the raw at this point. i have the raw but i was uneasy about feeding it. the raw food says:
crude protein: 13%
crude fat: 8%
crude fiber: 2%
moisture: 68%

the ingredients are listed as: beef, ground beef bone, beef liver, beef hearts, beef kidney, apples, carrots, butternut squash, ground flax seed, chicken eggs, broccoli, lettuce, spinach, kelp, salmon oil, apple cider vinegar, parsley, blueberries,

but- if i read what you sent me correctly.. i am going to read that again :-) i think it said to stay away from kidney meat and hearts. so if that is the case i can't feed her the raw. and the only alternative would be the canned. maybe i can feed the canned AND the dry canidae. equal parts so she is cleaning her teeth from the crunch and getting the moisture benefits from the canned?

[sadiesamie]

so the distilled water will help with the crystals? i just want to confirm b/c i thought you said the distilled water would "not" help with the crystals as it lacked nutrients. let me know b/c i will pick up some distilled water today. in the meantime... my other yorkie just got out of surgery. they removed 6 teeth! and one really bad abcessed. yikes! heck when i get her home she may not have enough teeth left to eat kibble :-) just kidding... the vet said she will be fine. can't wait to see the bill for this one. she had her dental, 6 teeth removed, and 3 growths removed. i cannot even wait to pick her up in at 5:00 today..... my poor baby....

[Yorkieluv]

That chart I sent says that kidney and organ meats like that are high oxalate which is not good. You might want to ask your vet to confirm. You might want to try the canned and dry Canidae...Make sure to check the ingredients against the chart. Print out the chart and the ingredients of each of the foods you want to feed, and bring it to your vet. See what he recommends...
The distilled water is Good because it does not have minerals which can make the stone/crystal situation worse, according to my vets.

[sadiesamie]

i read it again and med oxilate foods are... liver - so not sure if the raw would be good then. Some YT swear by the raw food diet. It's a good thing i got 4 cans of the canned food yesterday. i think i will mix for now dry kibble and also can. see how they do on that.

my little samie would probably eat that whole can of food in about 10 seconds. she LOVES LOVES LOVES LOVES IT!!! :-)

[Yorkieluv]

Yes, I meant medium oxalate. Sorry!