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Old 06-15-2006, 06:48 PM   #1
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Omg Luxating Patella - Need Advice???

OK, I just back from the Specialist for Roxy. She does have Luxating Patella in both rear legs. Grade III in one and Grade II to Grade III on the other. The specialist recommends surgery. He does one leg at a time so that each can heal properly. And he is definatley high on drugs b/c he wants approx. $3000.00 per leg. Can you believe it? I almost S@$& in my pants when they gave me the estimate. I definately think Roxy should have surgery at some point, but I am going to have to do some research and possibly find a Specialist OUTSIDE of New York who is skilled but also not going to charge me an arm and a leg! Road Trip...Vacation...Road Trip...Vacation

Any suggestions and/or recommendations are great appreciated!
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Old 06-15-2006, 07:23 PM   #2
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It is $2500 per leg here in Tucson with our specialists. So your $3000 is not that far out of line for New York. Also the longer you put it off the more damage can be done to the leg. Maybe this organization can help you.

Veterinary Surgeons
www.acvs.org (301)610-2000

and here is a another link with information.

http://www.leggperthes.com/
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Old 06-15-2006, 07:45 PM   #3
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Both our girls have LP to some degree, so we began checking into options. We found a vet office in the Dallas areathat has a surgeon come in to do the LP surgeries and the cost runs about $500-600 per leg. You have to been seen by the local vet and if surgery is needed, the vet will schedule you with the surgeon.

We were about to see the surgeon with Magic...as she was not responding to any medicines and was having trouble several times a day....but the last medication they gave her worked and she is not currently having any troubles.

I do know there are specialists in the Dallas area that charge more than $2000 per leg.

Good luck in your search for options!
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Old 06-15-2006, 07:45 PM   #4
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Wow Cali has LP but I don't know what level and lately she won't go up or down her stairs so she's going in to the vet. Can I ask what Roxy's symptosm were? Good luck that is really expensive!
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Old 06-16-2006, 05:48 AM   #5
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I know, I can't believe that he wants $6000.00 to do both legs. When they gave me the estimate, I thought it was for both and they said no that's just one.

Roxy has very short legs, I don't know the exact length, but they are short. She also is very fearful (of the unknown). She can't jump from the floor onto the couch. I have a ramp and I also use pillows. She will utilize those things. She won't go up or down the flight of stairs to the second level. Which is ok, b/c I don't want her too. TJ will go up, but he will not go down. I believe they are both fearful of those stairs. Outside on our patio, TJ goes up and down. We have 4 steps to get out of the house onto the patio and 4 steps down to the ground at the end of the patio. We also have a little 'baby' type step the runs the length of the patio (a 2-level type patio) but again it is a slight step. Roxy goes up and down that 'baby' step with NO problems. I also put her on the 'mini landing' and she jumps up the one step into the house from the patio. She will not come down that one step from the house onto the patio though. She tries but I think she is scared. Actually she did it once, but then turned around and went back in! Crazy...

What made me ask the Vet was when you pick her up, you can feel/hear the slip in her legs. She also does that 'skip' thing (at least 1-2 x a day). Roxy is also a trotter, she just prances about. I don't know if that has anything to do with LP, or if that is just the way she walks.

Anyway, she doesn't seem to be in pain, she doesn't go limp, and she does run around like crazy. But b/c the Vet and the specialist can easily take it out and put it back and b/c I say she does the skip thing everyday they feel she is pretty much Level III.

I definitely feel surgery will have to be done. I am going to some research about LP and surgeons. My mother has a good friend that works in a Vet office. She just moved to VA. I am going to call her and talk to her about Roxy and ask if she can recommend a specialist in her area and what the costs are in VA. B/c $6000 it crazy (I think) I know that the surgery will be expensive and we are willing to pay, but I just think $6000 is way out of line.
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Old 06-16-2006, 11:24 AM   #6
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This is too bad to hear - there is another post just today about the same thing......Good luck to you and at least you have others you can talk to about this and hope you find a great vet at a reasonable price...
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Old 06-16-2006, 05:34 PM   #7
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How horrible!!!! Did you have a contract with the breeder? Does the breeder guarantee against defects such as LPs? Such a shame! Best of luck to you and your furbaby. Hopefully, you'll be able to find someone to help you that is easier on the pocket book.
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Old 06-16-2006, 06:00 PM   #8
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Im so sorry that Roxy was Dx with LP on both rear legs. Poor little girl. Wow, $6000 is a lot of money, maybe you can get a second opinion and see if you can find a surgeon with more affordable prices. Good luck. I will have Roxy in my thoughts and prayers. Hugs.
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Old 06-16-2006, 08:29 PM   #9
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Well I just e-mailed the breeder and told her about Roxy. I looked back at her guarentee. This is what it says:

It is clearly understood at the time of this sale, this puppy is not considered to be of show or breeding quality and is being sold as pet quality.. We can not guarantee you would be able to show or breed this puppy.. We do advise you to spay or neuter your pet for their health and well being..


Health Guarantee!! This puppy has a three business day health guarantee. This allows time for new owners to have the new puppy examined by their own Veterinarian. These are business days so weekends or holidays do not count as one day. If this puppy is found to be unhealthy within this period, buyer may return the puppy for 1. a replacement puppy, of the same quality, when one becomes available or 2. a full refund of the purchase price. This also must be determined by a licensed Veterinarian and a statement from him/her must accompany the puppy upon return. This is so we may continue any medical treatment that may be required. Refund will be of purchase price only, buyer is completely responsible for any medical expenses that may occur. Buyer is also responsible for any and all transportation expenses that may occur to return the puppy to the breeder. Please keep in mind any puppy may be a little shy when being moved to a new home with a new family..

Sale Conditions!! A. Puppy/dog will NOT be allowed to live outdoors!!
B. Puppy/dog will NOT be left free to roam unattended outdoors!!
C. Puppy/dog will NOT be left chained to a dog house or other similar structure!!
D. New owner agrees to assume full responsibility for the puppy. From the time new owner picks up the puppy, he/she is completely responsible for any expenses that may occur for the puppy.
E. Puppy/dog will NOT be sold or given away unless breeder is notified in advaance, either in writing or by telephone, before taking action and these contract conditions will also apply to the new owner. Breeder must be informed as to where the puppy/dog is going and the new home must be approved prior to the transfer or returned to the breeder. We care about what happens to our pups and will help in any way that we can, such as: taking the dog in, or helping to find the dog a new home. If the puppy/dog is returned to the breeder, the new owner must bring the puppy back to the breeder..
Any violations of these conditions will result in repossession of the puppy/dog with no recourse or refund of the purchase price.

Genetic Guarantee!! We guarantee this puppy to be free from birth defects!! Should this puppy/dog die, must be put to sleep or is found to have a proven birth defect than a replacement puppy, of the same quality, will be offered. The replacement puppy does not have to the same breed, this can be decided by both parties. This puppy does NOT have to be returned to the breeder as long as the breeder is provided with the medical reports and written statement from the new owners Veterinarian. The written statement MUST include the proven genetic problem and a complete description of the puppy/dog. Please do not just send the medical reports, that just tells us the problem and NOT the cause. New owner is completely responsible for any and all transportation and medical expenses..

Deposits!! Deposits are a promise to buy a puppy. If you should change your mind and no longer wish to purchase this puppy, the deposit is non-refundable. Deposits are only refunded if something should happen to the puppy to prevent the sale.

Summary!! This contract is for the protection of both parties as well as for the well being of the puppy/dog. Any changes or additions to this agreement must be made in writing and signed by both parties.

The Health/Genetic guarantee you have just received with the purchase of this puppy is not transferable. If you should resell this puppy this contract is null and void.. You would have to provide your own guarantee. The only exception to this would be if you purchased the puppy as a gift and it is known at the time of purchase, or you have contacted us prior to the puppy being transferred and the puppy is going to be given as a gift, we must approve the transfer (for example you decide to give the puppy to your mother, father, brother, etc.)...

This puppy has been dewormed at least twice before leaving with Strongid T and given medication (Albon) for Coccidia. As a concerned breeder, we try very hard to eliminate these from the puppies before leaving our home.. However stress can and will cause some of these to return. Please give your vet this information so they can continue with this program.


So...
I am not sure??? From my research about LP, most feel (Vet, etc..) that it is a Genetic Defect, so it seems that they do guarantee Genetic Defects. It doesn't talk about LP or the time limit/length for the Genetic Guarantee. So, I guess I will see what she has to say???

Any thoughts?
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Old 06-17-2006, 06:24 AM   #10
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I am sorry about your little baby but after reading your contract I don't know what kind of breeder you bought from as there is alot of verbage in the contract that would concern me.
However, all that aside I know VERY FEW breeders (actually I don't know any) that guarantee against luxating patellas. LP is a prevalent problem in toy breeds and frankly can be caused as much by enviroment or made worse.

I have a 4 in one of my dogs and I have opted out of surgery at this time as he is never lame and has had no problems whatsoever, but again he has never shown a single sign of any pain. If I were you I think I would do alot of research before your surgery. Good Luck and I hope that it all works out for you.
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Old 06-17-2006, 06:41 AM   #11
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LPs can be genetic or environmental. By x-rays, vets will be able to determine if it is environmental (due to scarring on the x-rays) or if it's genetic (no scarring and how the ligaments are attached to the knee cap).

From what I understand, environmental rarely get up to a 3 or a 4...those are usually (not 100% of the time) genetic.

OP, get your reports ready and get the x-rays done. Have your vet determine if this is genetic or otherwise. Also, I'd get a second opinion and have all documentation on hand.

Best of luck.
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Old 06-17-2006, 06:59 AM   #12
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It clearly states in your contract that you should be able to get some help from the breeder.
Genetic Guarantee!! We guarantee this puppy to be free from birth defects!!

Providing the vet can write you a letter of testament saying it is genetic!
Good luck~
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Old 06-17-2006, 07:13 AM   #13
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Thanks everyone for your advice. The breeder and I have been e-mailing and I am trying not to be rude to her. She is stating that NONE of her dogs have LP, Roxy parents have NEVER had a litter of pups that have LP. She said Patella can be caused by injury as well.

I said that:
As far as LP being caused by injury, since the day I got her, she has NEVER been in any type of circumstance where her LP would be caused by injury to both her rear legs.

This is taken from the Orthopedic Foundation for Animals:
"Although the luxation may not be present at birth, the anatomical deformities that cause these luxations are present at that time and are responsible for subsequent recurrent patellar luxation. Patellar luxation should be considered an inherited disease."

I am going to contact the Orthopedic Foundation for Animals for more information about all the research they have on LP. Also, I am going to ask for listings of Ortho Specialist in the area that they would highly recommend to do the surgery on Roxy.


--- Which I am going to contact the Ortho Foundation. I am also going to get X-rays done immediately and see if the Vet can tell me by looking at them if it was injury or genteic?

I never wanted to admit it before, because I just LOVE my two little piggies to dealth, but between the few issues with TJ (he has that 'roach back' and he also has about 8 adult teeth on the upper and lower in the middle of his front and back teeth that just NEVER formed - genetic defect) and now with Roxy having Grade 3 LP in both rear legs and let's not forget about the Collapsing Trachea that I fear she has as well. But I am still not convinced it isn't a Reverse Sneeze...) Anyway, I am not saying that the breeder is HORRIBLE, b/c I know she feels she takes great care of her animals and that maybe so, but I just don't think she is 'screening' her breeding dogs. So with that said, I am not the type of person that will bad mouth back and forth.
My main concern are my babies and I have had them for just over a year noe, so they are mine and my responsibility. I will get the X-rays and go from there.
I don't know for sure what in the wold her 'Genetic Guarantee' means...but if the Vet and the Specilaist can both agree that Roxy's LP is Genetic and if the bill is going to cost me an arm and a leg then I just might have to pursue the breeders "Guarentee that her dogs are FREE from Genetic Defects".
Thanks agaian everyone, I really love you, your advice and tips are AWESOME!!!! Keep up to good work!
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Old 06-17-2006, 12:17 PM   #14
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Did you take your puppy to a vet when you first got it?

I did - he was 8 weeks old and the first thing my vet checked was his knees. He said that they were strong and stable -- and ready to go. He said that he does see a lot of little puppies with bad knees (especially puppymill puppies) - and that he was happy to find that mine had no problems at all.

With this in mind - I think that I wouldn't later hold my breeder responsible for any knee problems or any other problems -- since my little pup passed his whole exam with flying colors.

Also - I think that my guarantee said that they would only be responsible for any problems that were found by my vet at his first visit - not for things that might happen months or years later.

I think that we are entitled to healthy new little puppies -- and should be offered a replacement or refund or any serious problems that are found. But -I can't understand why breeders should be responsible for things that happen later on. There is no guarantee in life for any of us or for our pets that we will never have any health issues. And, taking care of our little dogs has to be our own responsibility at some point.

***** This thread should be a reminder for all of us to take our new little pups in for a thorough checkup when we first get them. Almost all serious problems can be found by a good vet at their first visit.


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Old 06-17-2006, 12:56 PM   #15
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Yes I did take both my puppies to the Vet the very next day and they both checked out great with flying colors. As far as the (birth defects) that I have mentioned, unfortunately they did not show themselves until later down the road when they were fully developed. And yes, I do understand that "life is life" and "things to do happen". I am certainly NOT out to get anyone or burn anyone, that is not is my nature. My personalty is one that "Just wants everyone to get along".

In this situation with Roxy and Luxating Patella, if this is a Genetic Birth Defect, and my breeders has a guarentee that her pups are FREE from any birth defects, then why shouldn't I check into what my rights are in this situation? As of right now, my first quote for surgery for Roxy here on Long Island is $3000.00 per leg and she needs both legs repaired. I am willing to do what it takes to give Roxy a better life, but I just can't pull $6000 out from the sky. So, in my thinking about what in the world are we going to do, I thought let me just check what my contract states...I still really don't understand it, but it is clear as day that my breeder guarentees her pups FREE from Genetic Birth Defects. Sorry to keep repeating this all, but I have to explore all options and responsibilities in this matter. I hope that I haven't offended anyone, that's not my intention at all, I am just venting and trying to explain my situation and get advice. In the end I will find a way for Roxy to have the surgery even if it means I must put it on a credit card and get a second job to help pay for it, my little Roxy Girl is worth every penny I will spend on her for her entire life, as is TJ too!
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