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Old 05-20-2006, 05:23 PM   #1
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Default Im stumped..I really advice on 15 day old pup

I really need some advice.
I have a 15 day old puppy who weighs 7 ozs. In the last couple of days he has lost 2/10's of an oz. Considering he should be gaining this isnt good news.
He had a rough start. For one he was born at 2 ozs. and early by 3 days. He was the only baby. I always stay with moms during birth but this birth was unusual, I didnt hear a sound until about 3 am, which was a frantic mom with no idea what to do. The puppy was chilled when I found him. Mom and baby were in the kennel in the kitchen. Instead of him being on the bedding he was on newspaper and she was upset with this new boy, her first litter.
When I found him I put him on a heating pad and calmed mom. I didnt think he would make it, he was pretty lethargic. But the warmth of the pad helped him. Although he had to be assisted to nurse for the first 2 days, he began nursing on his own and doing well. Mom calmed and took care of him.
He started gaining weight steadily until the last couple days. He started crying off and on. He wasnt nursing anytime I looked and mom wasnt laying with him. So I gave him nutradrops then later karo syrup. He appeared active and would lay with mom but I didnt see him nursing except once. He still cried alot so I started him on antibiotics(amoxil). 4 doses later in two days, he still cried and was not very active and lying on his side sometimes. I kept up with the karo and nutradrops.
I put him on a heating pad again and he didnt cry anymore but he just laid there on his side even when I picked him up although he was breathing regular. He would yawn but not move at all, but open his eyesl and even let his head fall back..........but he didnt cry at all with the heating pad ! But he didnt move at all except twitch. Temp of 97 degrees.
But I took him off the heating pad and held him again later, he opened his eyes and yawned, I put him on the carpet and he started crawling. I put him with mom and he nursed..........but just briefly for 2 minutes or so. then went back to sleep.
His gums look pale to me, almost white.
His mom is up to date on shots and wormed right after breeding with panacur. He shouldnt be wormy.
If you have any tips, they certainly would be appreciated. Mom has plenty of milk for him.
Sorry for the book but I thought the more background the better.
This little boy has been handled at least a dozen times a day. Maybe I handle him too much.
Im all ears!
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Old 05-20-2006, 06:07 PM   #2
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Placing a dog on a heating pad can dehydrate the pup quickly, heating the room, a hot water bottle or your stomach would be a better alternative in a pup who you do not think is nursing enough. When a pup becomes dehydrated the sucking reflex is one of the first things to go. If the pup's temp. drops under say 94 degrees the mom will not nurse it. Since he has no litter mates, he really needs mom to stay with him or needs to be kept in a very warm room with adequate humidity.

I would start giving him a lactate ringer's solution (preferable) or pedialyte, but only when his body temperature is at least 94 degrees and monitoring nursing. If his sucking reflex is not strong enough to nurse you may have to bottle feed or tube feed with a formula. There are many good homemade formulas just be sure and choose one that has equal amounts of "milk" and water. His intake should be about 1 cc per ounce of body weight every 3 hours around the clock. I raise birds so sometimes I'm feeding a rejected baby smaller than the tip of your pinky every 1/2 hour around the clock, but they do live and it's always worth the extra effort.

The twitching is a good sign.

Do you know any bird breeders - they would probably have an extra incubator you could borrow?

Keep us posted.
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Old 05-20-2006, 07:35 PM   #3
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Just checking back to see if you had received any more help.

Oh, about the antibiotic. It could be a viral or bacterial cause, but you are also going to be destroying good bacteria. Try to see if the puppy will lick some plain yogurt to counteract the antibiotic and restore the balance.

Sometimes a puppy with colic will cry and the cure for that is also plain yogurt. A puppy could cry because of gas also and a drop of GasX does the trick. Is mom cleaning him which stimulates him to urinate and defecate? If not, you need to be doing this to with a wet warm paper towel.

Hydration is the most important consideration right now. "Pinch" the puppy's skin if it remains "wrinkled" and doesn't lay flat quickly then he is dehydrated. If you can't correct this by giving ringers lactate orally, then a vet can give him an injection under the skin to remedy this. If the pup continues in a state of dehydration then his kidneys and other organs will fail.

Have you by chance checked the roof of his mouth to make sure he doesn't have a cleft pallet?
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Old 05-20-2006, 08:01 PM   #4
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Thank you so much for the quick advice!!! Negative on the cleft palette.
I gave lil guy some water with a touch/tiny tiny bit of salt. I dont have lactated ringer on hand. He pepped up.
I turned off the heating pad.........and put a warm bottle beside him. He is still sluggish but doing better. Good advice.....the heating pad was to much and to drying. Thank you! He is dehydrated. I checked his skin........poor turgor.
Mommy is taking care of him for urination. She really is trying to help him.
I gave the antibiotic and will not give it anymore. I have yogurt and will give a bit tommorrow to lil man. The antibiotic I think is to strong.
What great nursing/Er care you have for these babies. Its well recieved and implemented.
I will keep you posted.
Thank God for you.
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Old 05-21-2006, 07:09 AM   #5
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I don't know about giving him salt. I would think salt would cause dehydration. He needs sugar added to the water.

How is the little one doing today?
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Old 05-22-2006, 02:52 PM   #6
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Ive been busy with lil boy today so Im just now updating.
I wish I could say hes doing better but he's not.
I have gave him pedialyte routinely and have had to supplement him since he shows no interest in nursing at all now. His gums remain whitish along with his tongue. He whines quite a bit, but stops when he is next to mom but doesnt even attempt to nurse. He doesnt take the supplement formula well, he lets it drip out his mouth most of the time.
I did give him some more anitibiotic and gave him a bit of yogurt with the two doses I gave him in the last 24 hours.
He still has strength but I just dont know how. His skin seems more tont now but he his nursing as gotten worse. I tried not to supplement formula so he wouldnt be full if he did get the urge to nurse. But he has lost an additional 2/10's of an oz. so I couldnt wait anymore unless I wanted to just let him go. I keep hoping all the sudden with all the care he will snap out of it.
I havent taken him to the vet because my three experiences with very young puppies is they die at the vets office when they start the procedures. The only good result I have had is the advice from breeders with such young babies but the puppy was not at this extreme. Not even close.
I Always say I wont try to save sick puppies anymore with extra measures but I just cant help myself.
Again thank you for the advice. Now its up to mother nature to help. Ill let you know what happens.
I have some lixotinic on hand that I gave in a minute amount also. It is supposed to have blood building properties.
Here is a picture of the lil guy your trying to help.
He does like the hot water bottle, the only thing I havent tried is the gasx.
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Old 05-22-2006, 03:12 PM   #7
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you say the 3 pups you have taken to the vets have died? i took my pups the day they were born to the vets to be checked over id say change your vet. if your pup isnt getting any better you cant not take him to the vets, he could have problems with him that you cant see and he could be suffering so imo take him and you will no one way or another. i hope he gets better bless him.
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Old 05-22-2006, 03:52 PM   #8
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Quote:
sashajade you say the 3 pups you have taken to the vets have died? i took my pups the day they were born to the vets to be checked over id say change your vet. if your pup isnt getting any better you cant not take him to the vets, he could have problems with him that you cant see and he could be suffering so imo take him and you will no one way or another. i hope he gets better bless him.
I understand how you feel, I would feel just like you if it wasnt from past experience. I would think "Whats wrong with this person!"
Please understand the deaths happened at two different vet offices. This has happened over time, not recent events.
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Old 05-22-2006, 03:59 PM   #9
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Have never heard of the blood building tonic, but I guess you are thinking anemia because of the white tongue and gums. I know hypoglycemia can cause white gums, but I've never seen it progress to a white tongue.

The formula I use is:

1/2 cup of evap. milk
1/2 cup of boiled water
1 tsp. Karo
2 raw eggs
1Tblesp. plain yogurt
1 drop of pediatric multivitam (Visorbin)

To stimulate the pup to eat I place one drop of Karo and this usually gets them active enough to feed. I warm to 100 degrees and make sure the pup is over 94 degrees. I've never had much luck with those pet nurser bottles. I use Platex preemie or Playtex 0 -3 month nipples which have a flat button like shape. They seem to prefer these or I use a syringe. I usually feed 1 cc per oz of body weight every three hours, but with this one I would feed a small amount every hour around the clock. I feed with the pup in a resting position on his stomach so, hopefully, none goes in his lungs.

Vets can do a lot we can't do, but my experience has been the same as yours, unfortunately. Is his breathing still good? I know pneumonia is a risk with these little ones that don't nurse well.

I know you're going to be busy (and very tired), but post a quick update every time you get a minute. Thanks. I'll keep you all in my prayers.
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Old 05-22-2006, 04:19 PM   #10
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I don't think I would give him anymore antibiotics or additives, except the sugar water solution. Do you have anyway of tube feeding him the supplemental formula? That way you could monitor his intake and know he is getting the calories he needs. Do you have any other breeders around that might could help you out? The idea of a bird incubator is a good one...
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Old 05-22-2006, 04:23 PM   #11
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You might also want to get some instant glucose powder. You should be able to get it at Walgreens. Also uncolored hummingbird mix contains an instant sugar. The body can utilize this form of sugar faster than table sugar or Karo. Many won't feed a weak puppy formula because they believe if the sucking reflex is not there then the proper intestinal contractions are not there either. They just feed the glucose water until he is strong enough to have a sucking reflex. When you place your finger in the pup's mouth does he latch on at all?
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Old 05-22-2006, 04:53 PM   #12
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I dont have any advice just wanted to say I hope the poor little guy pulls through. Keep us updated on his progress.
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Old 05-22-2006, 05:46 PM   #13
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Thank you for your support, your advice and kind words.
Lil mans breathing is regular. He isnt crying as long if mom lays with him, if she doesnt he will cry, but the hot water bottle gives him comfort at those times and he doesnt cry.
He hasnt nursed at all. He just wont latch on. One thing for sure is "he doesnt like me!" He has enough strength to fight me........he doesnt want the supplements and if I put my finger in his mouth he doesnt latch on, he just fights me.
He is sleeping right now and I am going to leave him alone for a few hours. He needs his rest since its been interrupted all day.
I have been using a syringe with the long tip.. I dont have luck with the nursing bottles either. The nipple doesnt flow right and isnt shaped right like you said. If I give 2 cc's to this guy per the syringe I would say he gets 1cc, from him fighting me and some running out the sides of his mouth.
He does have some strength. He is holding steady at 6 1/2 ozs right now.
The odds are against this Lil guy but he's still in the game!
I just checked him, he is sleeping with mom and breathing quietly.
I sure hope he improves and I know you do too.
Thanks.
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Old 05-22-2006, 06:49 PM   #14
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Yes, I would really like to see him make it. I'm optismistic, especially since he nursed for the first week and got the colostrum which should give him some defense and also because his breathing is good. Make sure the formula is warmed and just feed every hour drop by drop around the clock if you can't get him to take much. Also get the Platex preemie bottles. Maybe he'll be happier if you try feeding while he is right by Mom. Staying up all night, that's easy for me to suggest, huh, but it really is the only chance he has. Also keep an eye on the Mom she could get mastitis since the pup stopped nursing so abruptly. If her teats feel firm and hot that is a sign. Some baby birds are like that - they resist handfeeding, but usually come around even though they will wean earlier than the others.
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Old 05-22-2006, 08:19 PM   #15
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Well I just supplemented lil boy for the night, until 4 am or 5 am arrives.

1 cc pedialyte
1.5 cc formula
1/10th of a cc of lixotinic

Maybe tomorrow he will feel better.

Night all. Im tired.
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