Kidney disease

[Shicks]

So sorry to hear this. My Peek-a-poo had this back in the early 2000's. Even then we gave him IV fluids several times a day. Round the clock care. He only lived 3 weeks with this. He was a month shy of 12 years. We tried everything, even blood transfusions. Nothing helped. It was horrible. I pray you have better results. Hopefully vet care has come a long way since my baby.

[yorkiefan_]

Originally Posted by Shicks

So sorry to hear this. My Peek-a-poo had this back in the early 2000's. Even then we gave him IV fluids several times a day. Round the clock care. He only lived 3 weeks with this. He was a month shy of 12 years. We tried everything, even blood transfusions. Nothing helped. It was horrible. I pray you have better results. Hopefully vet care has come a long way since my baby.

It was similar with Minnie, she got IV's three times and drank tons of water but only lived a week after first getting really sick. She was having these small seizures where she would lightly snap at the air like she was trying to catch a group of gnats over her head, but she was in such a delicate state that both my main vet and the ER vet I went to the night she had her first regular seizure (15 seconds or so) recommended against putting her on seizure drugs unless they progressed to grand mal seizures. It did progress to grand mal on a Sunday night when I was 45 minutes from the nearest ER and by the time I got her to the ER that night there was nothing that could be done. At least I know she was unconscious during the grand mal seizure and had a decent quality of life that last week after getting her first IV. She was pretty happy and lively, though peeing every 15 minutes of course. But it was so hard to see those seizures.

[scubaunderh20]

I am so very sorry you and little Minnie had to go through so much. It is heart wrenching to see our little ones sick and wish they could talk to tell us how they feel. Thank you for sharing your experience and for your support. Best wishes for healthy days ahead for all.

[scubaunderh20]

Oh my that Peek-A-Poo only lived three weeks after diagnosis. I am so sorry. Wyland's diagnosis was quite a shock as his numbers were always good. He just turned 9 this month and he has had a really good life and given us more unconditional love than we could have ever imagined. We just want to keep him comfortable. We will hope for the best. Thank you for your support!

[scubaunderh20]

Hi all,


We were able to get a recommendation on a specialist and poor little Wyland was put through a ringer of tests. We really like and trust the specialist as we feel her true intention is to help Wyland have as much of a quality of life and be as comfortable as possible. She indicated his kidneys are functioning at probably about 25-30%. We will get tests results back next week from the urinalysis/cultures and blood work to see if there may be any other contributing illnesses. We will continue to take one day at a time and spoil the heck out of Wyland while we can!


Happy Halloween all and have a great weekend! Thanks for the support! Barb

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by scubaunderh20

Hi all,


We were able to get a recommendation on a specialist and poor little Wyland was put through a ringer of tests. We really like and trust the specialist as we feel her true intention is to help Wyland have as much of a quality of life and be as comfortable as possible. She indicated his kidneys are functioning at probably about 25-30%. We will get tests results back next week from the urinalysis/cultures and blood work to see if there may be any other contributing illnesses. We will continue to take one day at a time and spoil the heck out of Wyland while we can!


Happy Halloween all and have a great weekend! Thanks for the support! Barb

So happy to hear that you found a specialist you are happy with. Continued prayers for your baby.

Thanks for updating...and for the good wishes...you enjoy your weekend as well!

[Scoobstersmom]

Barb, I am so glad you found a specialist that you feel you can trust. You will know more once you get the test results back. Most pups diagnosed with kidney disease are at the point of 25% of remaining kidney function. That is when they begin to show symptoms and the affects start to show on blood work. My yorkie lived over three years with 25% of kidney function remaining at diagnosis and I know of many more that have fared just as well. There is much you can do to slow the progression of kidney disease. I am pulling for you and your pup and sending lots of prayers. Please post again when you get the test results. We care.

There are a couple of facebook groups out there that offer a lot of support for canine kidney disease. If you're interested, send me a PM and I will be glad to direct you to them.

Diana

[Buster Brown]

Fingers crossed for good test results for Wyland.

[scubaunderh20]

Hi all,


Our little Wyland has been recommended to have 50ml sub q fluids administered twice daily, along with additional oral meds. We are at the first day of doing this. Is twice daily excessive as I have read usually done a few times a week. We hate like heck putting him through the poking and anxiety of it all. Welcome any advice! Thank you! Barb

[ladyjane]

IV fluids are usually given for a few days and then labs rechecked.

Usually they tolerate the needle stick fairly well. I don't think it sounds excessive at all. I am sure they are doing it in small amounts twice/day so that he gets more benefit from it. I hope it helps him!

[4carolyn]

I'm so sorry to hear about Wylands kidney disese. I lost my Tiffany to it. The vet said there was not much to be done and her prognosis was poor. I searched the Internet and found PetWellbeing and got Kidney Support Gold which I am convinced gave her better numbers. The vet was pleased with the improvement, but strangely never asked what I was giving her. I hope your Wyland is with you for a long, long time. Tiffany made it to 15.

[Scoobstersmom]

Barb -

Did the specialist suggest an IV flush (3-5 days of inpatient IV fluids) to try to get the numbers down? Would you be willing to share Wyland's weight and his BUN and Creatinine numbers? The amount of fluids prescribed is based on weight, and frequency is based on the amount of toxins that have built up in the dog's system. A rule of thumb is in the range of 5-15 ml of fluid per pound of your dog's weight per day and a vet may prescribe an even higher amount if the numbers are very high. A dog with moderate kidney disease just starting out on fluids may be prescribed fluids a few times per week, but a the disease advances and the amount of toxins is higher, daily fluids is not uncommon. My friend recently had her 6 pound yorkie seen at Tufts. She was diagnosed with advanced kidney disease and prescribed 60 ml of fluids twice daily following five days inpatient on IV fluids. Every case is different so it's hard to even have an opinion without knowing how much damage there is to your dog's kidneys.

How is Wyland tolerating the treatment?

Diana

[Scoobstersmom]

Barb -

I am not sure what areas you're looking for advice, but I kept my little CRF dog going for over three years. I'm no expert, but certainly have lots of experience with fluids. Here are some tips on the fluids.

Treating kidney disease and doing daily fluids can get expensive. My vet charged a ginormous amount for the bags of fluid and lines, so I got a written rx from her and purchased supplies online for less than 1/3rd the cost and free shipping. You can PM me if you'd like info on suppliers.

The needles my vet supplied were big 18 gauge needles that looked like harpoons when I stuck my little guy. I purchased a special brand of needles that were thin and ultra sharp and much more comfortable for him. Doing fluids twice daily, your dog's skin may get sore, and it is easy to build up scar tissue. Using the Terumo needles, we never had an issue with that. I can also give you info on where to purchase the needles.

It is also much more comfortable for your dog if you slightly warm the fluids to body temperature before administering them. Never warm them in the microwave, but my vet suggested placing the whole IV bag and tube inside a sealed one gallon Ziploc bag and floating it in a large bowl of warm/hot water for about 15 minutes first. You can test the temp of the fluids by dripping a few drops on the inside of your wrist like you'd test a baby bottle.

Make fluids a happy bonding time between you and Wyland. I would take a big fluffy towel or baby blanket and warm it in the dryer for a few minutes, then wrap him in the towel during fluid time. He was cozy and warm and settled right in with the towel. I also had special treats that he loved, and he only got them during and after fluids. I used tiny little milk bones, you can buy the little ones that are only about 3/4 of an inch long and he'd much on about two of them during the time I was administering the fluids. When we were done, I'd give him a couple of tiny chunks of peeled apple, which he loved, as a reward. He never resisted his fluid time and would happily follow me right into the bedroom when he saw me with the fluid bag.

Hopefully, some of these ideas will make the fluids a little more pleasant for Wyland.

If you are on facebook, there are a couple of facebook support groups for parents of dogs with kidney disease that you might find helpful. Let me know if you'd like info on them.

Good luck, Barb. There is a lot to learn but it quickly becomes routine.

Diana

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by Scoobstersmom

Barb -

Did the specialist suggest an IV flush (3-5 days of inpatient IV fluids) to try to get the numbers down? Would you be willing to share Wyland's weight and his BUN and Creatinine numbers? The amount of fluids prescribed is based on weight, and frequency is based on the amount of toxins that have built up in the dog's system. A rule of thumb is in the range of 5-15 ml of fluid per pound of your dog's weight per day and a vet may prescribe an even higher amount if the numbers are very high. A dog with moderate kidney disease just starting out on fluids may be prescribed fluids a few times per week, but a the disease advances and the amount of toxins is higher, daily fluids is not uncommon. My friend recently had her 6 pound yorkie seen at Tufts. She was diagnosed with advanced kidney disease and prescribed 60 ml of fluids twice daily following five days inpatient on IV fluids. Every case is different so it's hard to even have an opinion without knowing how much damage there is to your dog's kidneys.

How is Wyland tolerating the treatment?

Diana

Agree that each case is different. If a pup is in serious trouble, yes, IV fluids are given over a period of days.

She asked if it was out of line what was prescribed and it certainly does not sound it to me. Yes it is based on weight .. but 100cc during a day sounds like not so much to me.

The tips you gave are good especially warming the fluids because they can tend to chill them. I do like a 22 gauge needle, but it does take a bit longer. (but I am used to giving more fluids only once/day) It takes a few hours for the fluid to actually totally absorb so I am thinking twice is optimal. In a skittish pup, I might go a bit larger. I see people cringe when they see the size of the microchip needles, but I have not seen many pups even act like they have been stuck. Those things are scary looking...LOL

As for numbers, while they are very important, nothing takes the place of a physical exam by a vet ... often clinical signs will tell a different story. One of the specialists I use once said that, "you treat the dog, not the labs" .

I do love the tips given on some of the Yahoo and perhaps FB groups, but I have also seen some people scare the heck out of pet owners and bash vets while trying to play vet themselves. I also have seen misinformation given out...especially on Facebook. I have long learned to listen and then go to my vet and ask ... I don't trust anyone but a licensed vet and while yes, some vets may not be the best, I will never think or believe that a lay person knows more. I have plenty of experience with many different conditions, but always defer to vets. Please know I am not talking about you or your information....just giving my thoughts and tips about the online information.

Here is a very informative link about giving subcutaneous fluids:

Subcutaneous Fluid Administration in Dogs | VCA Animal Hospitals

and another...

Giving Subcutaneous Fluids to a Dog

[Scoobstersmom]

Ladyjane - I agree that the best information comes from one's own vet. I have seen incorrect information posted on the internet as well. The group I was referring to on facebook is a support group, not a medical/informational group. The members are very supportive of each other and provide a shoulder to lean on. It's a tough path to walk when your dog has been diagnosed with kidney failure and sometimes just having someone say "I have been there and know how you feel" helps a lot.

Diana