Night wakefulness and distress

[ladyjane]

I "think" you might be able to get a consult for less. I have asked someone else about that.
I don't recall what I was paying before...my nutritionist now works for RC so I cannot use her now.
Not sure who I will use in the future.

[ladyjane]

That site is great for general questions....

If you want a vet nutritionist for less, try www.balanceit.com

[Jenna AK]

Thank you ladyjane I think my old vet (who was excellent btw but she went back to university and is unavailable) recommended UC Davis and it's vets. I am encouraged.
I'm online now doing more research...found some stinky poop on Halo so have canceled that order. Really when it comes down to brass tacks, I'd much rather cook for her...I was vegan in my early twenties and may need to get back to it myself.

gemy, thank you for your input also. Yeah, I found that I had to cut back her "midnight snack" habit we'd gotten into and although I still get the big liquid eyes, she will eventually settle down after a drink of water or two and go to sleep. I really had to cut back her portions during the day though too because I found her stomach getting worse when there was more food being eaten. I literally count her kibbles into her bowl.

ETA: Just heard back from my vet, he is now convinced it is the kibble that's the problem....(no fooling!) and he is speaking to a nutritionist on staff (didn't know we had one, he said something about how she orders the food for the practice though so...cautiously optimistic) about a homecooked diet for Jenna. He'll call me back when he has something for her.

He did say he was afraid to try anything even like Royal Canin for fear of making her worse. (Glad I cancelled the Halo!) There was talk of maybe trying her on meat again but he wants to get this home-cook vegan diet first. He is also going to re-up her amoxicillin so she can at least be spared the colitis while eating the DVPNB. Another 2 weeks of antibiotics...poor thing is going to have no gut flora left!

As long as this food doesn't do any damage to her internal organs (and there wasn't any evidence of it so far) then we'll take care of her symptoms, but I am so stoked that we may finally be getting somewhere and maybe drop this product at last that has been so questionable.

Okay...for the moment I can be a happy bunny

[Jenna AK]

Well color me disappointed...for lack of a stronger term that would cause all the swear filters to have collective apoplexy.
I got to the vet today after he told me he had a bagged food for me with egg and rice...only to find what he wants me to use now is Science Diet. And it's only after I drag the bag home (I don't even know why I bothered) that I realize it's 3 months out of date.



It goes back to the practice tomorrow with as much restraint as I can muster not to make heads roll there.

I'm done.

I call UC Davis first thing Monday. I'm finished being messed around. Jenna needs help that she's not getting here. At least we have the amoxicillin to keep her gut from falling apart until I can get a real diet for her. I was so hoping this time would be the last time I had to get angry on her behalf, but I see it's going to be a lifelong battle.

/rant over

[ladyjane]

http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/yor...ml#post4586547

[Jenna AK]

Originally Posted by ladyjane

http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/yor...ml#post4586547

I actually read this earlier today as I saw it highlighted. I really like that three visit rule. I now have that bookmarked.

I meant to ask, although perhaps it is not something that can be answered here...if a dog has an allergy/sensitivity to protein, shouldn't that show up in the blood tests somewhere? Like with the presence of antibodies or some such?
Since Jenna's test results came back clear and he claims he tested for everything in her gut that could go wrong, I'm just curious when something like protein intolerance would manifest, if there's even a test for that?

[107barney]

Jenna
I use petdiets, she's got more experience than most others. The fee is well worth it. Almost all the other veterinary nutritionists are going to charge the same amount including a diet. You could try a vegetarian diet for $25 on petdiets and see if that works.

My personal opinion is that you'll need a HYDROLYZED diet for this dog
purina HA

Good luck.

[107barney]

Also, the answer is no about allergies showing up in blood.
You need to feed a novel protein and keep the ingredients simple.
I've been in your shoes. It's not fun but Petdiets and Dr Remillard have found many options for us over the years.

[107barney]

One last thing... I too had a vet that was "against home cooking" -- he lost a customer.

[wigglewomyn]

Jenna, when i posted in the beginning of this thread, i was wrong about us feeding NB vegetarian kibble to my dalmatian. We fed her Nature's Recipe vegetarian kibble. Have you tried that kind yet? Tuki couldn't have any meat and she did very well on Nature's Recipe. I am very sorry to hear about the problems your dogs are having. I imagine you are tearing your hair out by now. I was hoping they would be getting better by now. If your vet is against home cooking for your dogs, maybe this food would work for you. I haven't read all the posts in this thread, so please forgive me if this has been mentioned. Good luck. I think when our dogs are sick it is as nerve wracking as it is when our babies are sick.

[OwnedByJezebel]

Originally Posted by Jenna AK

Thank you ladyjane I think my old vet (who was excellent btw but she went back to university and is unavailable) recommended UC Davis and it's vets. I am encouraged.
I'm online now doing more research...found some stinky poop on Halo so have canceled that order. Really when it comes down to brass tacks, I'd much rather cook for her...I was vegan in my early twenties and may need to get back to it myself.

gemy, thank you for your input also. Yeah, I found that I had to cut back her "midnight snack" habit we'd gotten into and although I still get the big liquid eyes, she will eventually settle down after a drink of water or two and go to sleep. I really had to cut back her portions during the day though too because I found her stomach getting worse when there was more food being eaten. I literally count her kibbles into her bowl.

ETA: Just heard back from my vet, he is now convinced it is the kibble that's the problem....(no fooling!) and he is speaking to a nutritionist on staff (didn't know we had one, he said something about how she orders the food for the practice though so...cautiously optimistic) about a homecooked diet for Jenna. He'll call me back when he has something for her.

He did say he was afraid to try anything even like Royal Canin for fear of making her worse. (Glad I cancelled the Halo!) There was talk of maybe trying her on meat again but he wants to get this home-cook vegan diet first. He is also going to re-up her amoxicillin so she can at least be spared the colitis while eating the DVPNB. Another 2 weeks of antibiotics...poor thing is going to have no gut flora left!

As long as this food doesn't do any damage to her internal organs (and there wasn't any evidence of it so far) then we'll take care of her symptoms, but I am so stoked that we may finally be getting somewhere and maybe drop this product at last that has been so questionable.

Okay...for the moment I can be a happy bunny

I would be concerned about bacterial balance of the gut as well. I keep probiotics on hand and use them whenever my pups are on antibiotics. Right now I have Purina forti-flora, but there are many others. If you don't have something readily available for dogs, get some plain unflavored yogurt and let your baby have some every time they are dosed with the abx.

[AllDogBoots]

I can't offer any advice but want you to know I'm thinking of you and Jenna. I hope you find a solution soon.

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by 107barney

Jenna
I use petdiets, she's got more experience than most others. The fee is well worth it. Almost all the other veterinary nutritionists are going to charge the same amount including a diet. You could try a vegetarian diet for $25 on petdiets and see if that works.

My personal opinion is that you'll need a HYDROLYZED diet for this dog
purina HA

Good luck.

Totally agree with this....nothing to lose by trying it!

[Doodlebug]

Just a thought.....do you think she might have gas at night?

Daisy was going through similar pain issues at night...She was very nervous and tossed and turned and panted and paced and made little crying sounds. She was acting confused and we thought it was dementia at first. Turns out she had a loose tooth, as Maximo mentioned, and it must have been causing her pain. We had it removed and the pain issues seemed to be over.

Then she developed a skin infection the vet suspected that she was allergic to chicken, we had been putting boiled chicken on top of her dog food. When we eliminated the chicken and all treats with chicken, and started giving her Hills prescription D/D Salmon recipe her problems seemed to be over. She used to have those clear jelly coated poopies and sometimes a hard tummy (gas?). Now it is all cleared up and she is not itching anymore. She gets hypoallergenic treats too. It is such a relief to get her problems figured out and get my happy, spunky little 12 year old girl back.

I don't know if any of this will help but I hope you will find something out soon.

[Zoey Zendaya]

Sorry for your dilemma .... I too had eating problems and illness with Zoey.when I did find a dog food she liked she got too fat on it and it was even a weight management !
Switched to wellness weight management and she loves it. It's turkey based. Had better ratios....and feed 2 tablespoons twice a day ..
I found PUMPKIN helped get thru difficult times too. Just need SOMETHING in that tummy...
Nighttime is a long stretch for their little tummies to go without food and mine love a heaping tsp of pumkin before bed too.they sleep better too as WE DO if we eat before bed😱find a little something....

I was always told if your going to add something with their kibble to do it separate from it. That way they don't expect it IN their kibble and choose to refuse for that reason if you stop for whatever reason. They eat the dab of meat or vegetable in one bowl ....beside it is their kibble.
It starts the eating and they continue on with the kibble sitting beside it...
It works for me! ( in all reality they drove me nuts while I was cooking and so they get their evening meal this way) they are happy with a spaghetti noodle or a pinch of lettuce....or something off to the side that isn't seasoned yet....

Good luck and keep us informed!