More chemo. Right or wrong? - YorkieTalk.com Forums

betsygage · 05-20-2015, 08:04 AM

Took my nearly 16 year for his 3rd chemo yesterday. He has prostate cancer which was diagnosed in Feb. He was not symptomatic and it was found while he was scanned for pancreatitis status. He tolerates the actual chemo well, but after about 14 days he gets very lethargic and has a poor appetite. Last time, he developed colitis (which I'm told is common. In fact, they gave me medicine for it when he was first diagnosed just in case...) but he bounced back quickly. He's a very picky eater. Last year he weighed 4-14. Yesterday he was 4-6. I've tried every feeding venue I can think of. Balance IT, home made, various canned variety. He'll go for it for a day or two then shuts it off. His tumor is stable in size (which is small). He has no symptoms except for an occasional puddle every week or two. His chest x ray is clear with no signs of spread. The oncologist doesn't try to push the chemo and I want to have him with me as long as I can but I feel in my heart he doesn't want it. He's getting so stubborn about his medicine, his food. He hangs out in his "man cave" crate. I think he's depressed. I skipped his last round because I was out of town. He bounced back and looked and felt great. I feel so conflicted. Today he just looks at me like "why did you do this to me again???"

Tink04 · 05-20-2015, 08:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by betsygage

Took my nearly 16 year for his 3rd chemo yesterday. He has prostate cancer which was diagnosed in Feb. He was not symptomatic and it was found while he was scanned for pancreatitis status. He tolerates the actual chemo well, but after about 14 days he gets very lethargic and has a poor appetite. Last time, he developed colitis (which I'm told is common. In fact, they gave me medicine for it when he was first diagnosed just in case...) but he bounced back quickly. He's a very picky eater. Last year he weighed 4-14. Yesterday he was 4-6. I've tried every feeding venue I can think of. Balance IT, home made, various canned variety. He'll go for it for a day or two then shuts it off. His tumor is stable in size (which is small). He has no symptoms except for an occasional puddle every week or two. His chest x ray is clear with no signs of spread. The oncologist doesn't try to push the chemo and I want to have him with me as long as I can but I feel in my heart he doesn't want it. He's getting so stubborn about his medicine, his food. He hangs out in his "man cave" crate. I think he's depressed. I skipped his last round because I was out of town. He bounced back and looked and felt great. I feel so conflicted. Today he just looks at me like "why did you do this to me again???"

I'm so sorry about your little one's cancer

. I'm going through a similar situation (Tink is 11 and has Insulinoma, pancreatic cancer). Tink is on an oral chemo (Palladia) which she appears to tolerate well (since November 2014). However, I have in my mind that once it stops working, or she does not tolerate it well, that I will discontinue it. Does your little one have to go to the vet and receive their chemo via IV treatment? I'm so sorry... I wish I could provide better advice, but I think the best advice is to think of what HE wants, which seems like you are doing. *Prayers*

betsygage · 05-20-2015, 09:13 AM

I have to drive William 2 hours to a veterinary medical school where he receives IV chemotherapy over about 2 hours. It's always a very long day. Yesterday we left the house at 8:30 and got home at 5:30 but that was because he had an X-ray and ultra sound to stage him as well as labs and chemo. Usually it's just labs and chemo which take a 2 hours less. But it's still a long time for both of us. I have a terrible back (had to go to the chiropractor before we went) so it's a big deal. But it is worth it if it helps him. There was a lady in the waiting area who told me her dog (not a Yorkie) also had prostate cancer. He'd lived 2 years longer than had been expected. My hopes got high! Then they brought her dog out. He was a large dog, looked alert and could sort of walk on his front legs, but had a handle (like on a suitcase) that was used to lift up his hind end because he is unable to move his back legs at all and he was wearing a toddler sized diaper. My heart sank. No way is my baby going down that road.....I pray your medicine continues to work for your baby. It is wonderful that it can be given orally and that it's so well tolerated. Love every day you have together. Thank you for your kind words to me.

Shicks · 05-20-2015, 09:46 AM

Oh my, what a decision. My little one was on chemo for 2 years. He did bounce back after treatments. He also developed colitis. Near the end he also declined food, blood in stool, and a bad case of pancreatictist, even though he had never had this before. And that is what got him. He didn't last 8 hours. So I didn't have a chance to make the decision to stop treatments. If he would have stopped being a "Yorkie" sooner I would have made that decision. So sorry you & your little one is going through this. It's just not fair. I'm sad for you both.

betsygage · 05-20-2015, 09:55 AM

I'm so sorry about your baby. I was getting desperate to get William's pills down him since he hadn't eaten all day. Wouldn't take them in his prescribed food, or chicken. So I broke all the rules and put them in Swiss cheese. Sure enough down they went and he ate quite a bit more. I know it's not good for his pancreas. He's had pancreatitis in the past. His enzymes are off the charts but the US shows it's not active. At this point, I'm trying to keep the cancer at bay...so hard when he won't do what he's supposed to. But he's showing lots more energy now. Seems happy and more like his sweet Yorkie self. Praying it doesn't hurt him.

Tink04 · 05-20-2015, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by betsygage

I have to drive William 2 hours to a veterinary medical school where he receives IV chemotherapy over about 2 hours. It's always a very long day. Yesterday we left the house at 8:30 and got home at 5:30 but that was because he had an X-ray and ultra sound to stage him as well as labs and chemo. Usually it's just labs and chemo which take a 2 hours less. But it's still a long time for both of us. I have a terrible back (had to go to the chiropractor before we went) so it's a big deal. But it is worth it if it helps him. There was a lady in the waiting area who told me her dog (not a Yorkie) also had prostate cancer. He'd lived 2 years longer than had been expected. My hopes got high! Then they brought her dog out. He was a large dog, looked alert and could sort of walk on his front legs, but had a handle (like on a suitcase) that was used to lift up his hind end because he is unable to move his back legs at all and he was wearing a toddler sized diaper. My heart sank. No way is my baby going down that road.....I pray your medicine continues to work for your baby. It is wonderful that it can be given orally and that it's so well tolerated. Love every day you have together. Thank you for your kind words to me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by betsygage

I'm so sorry about your baby. I was getting desperate to get William's pills down him since he hadn't eaten all day. Wouldn't take them in his prescribed food, or chicken. So I broke all the rules and put them in Swiss cheese. Sure enough down they went and he ate quite a bit more. I know it's not good for his pancreas. He's had pancreatitis in the past. His enzymes are off the charts but the US shows it's not active. At this point, I'm trying to keep the cancer at bay...so hard when he won't do what he's supposed to. But he's showing lots more energy now. Seems happy and more like his sweet Yorkie self. Praying it doesn't hurt him.

So much on your plate... I'm sorry.

Do they have an option for an oral chemotherapy instead of the IV (Tink uses Palladia) - maybe that would not be as stressful for him as well as yourself?
Also, I know not all medications can be broken/dilluted, but I have found when Tink is refusing her meds that if I can use a dropper around 1ML of water, then I can dilute her meds in the water, then give it to her in a syringe.

And I agree with your statement "No way is my baby going down that road..." about the other pup. Ugh, and it got your hopes up.

I think that sometimes we as owners know what our little guys would prefer, and I know Tink would not want to be in that type of condition as well.

Best of wishes to your little guy *hugs*

betsygage · 05-20-2015, 10:18 AM

I don't know about any oral chemo. It hasn't been mentioned. I do know that prostate cancer in dogs is extremely aggressive. Untreated, the life expectancy is about 30 days. He's up running around now so feeling much better. I got his NSAID down him in Swiss cheese (a big no no) but I know he will always take it in that. I'm better about it all right now. When he perks up, so do I. Funny how that works, isn't it?

Give your baby girl a big hug from William and me.

Betsy

Tink04 · 05-20-2015, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by betsygage

I don't know about any oral chemo. It hasn't been mentioned. I do know that prostate cancer in dogs is extremely aggressive. Untreated, the life expectancy is about 30 days. He's up running around now so feeling much better. I got his NSAID down him in Swiss cheese (a big no no) but I know he will always take it in that. I'm better about it all right now. When he perks up, so do I. Funny how that works, isn't it?

Give your baby girl a big hug from William and me.

Betsy

"When he perks up, so do I." COMPLETELY relate! My mood changes based on Tink's mood or how she is feeling. It's GREAT when she's having good days, and the opposite when not.
I'm happy to hear little William is up and running about (and that he got his nummy Cheese!) , I hope that within time you feel better about any decision you make for your little guy.
I will give Tink a William-hug this evening

*prayers*

chestermama · 05-22-2015, 03:40 PM

Im sorry, Im sending prayers on the decision that is hard to make

lillymae · 05-22-2015, 09:22 PM

So sorry to hear about your babies diagnosis. My Sparky has Lymphoma & next month he will be in remission for 3 yrs. Yes some chemo drugs can cause colitis
so it is important to use the metronidazole when needed as colitis causes a bad tummy ache. Also for the appetite, did your vet give any Cyproheptadine ? it stimulates the appetite. It is important to keep them eating during chemo so they can keep up their strength. If Sparky ever chose to skip a meal, I started him on the Cyproheptadine rite away & usually only needed 1 dose to get him eating again. Prayers for your little one.

betsygage · 05-23-2015, 12:53 PM

The vet gave me a prescription for Mirtazapine for William's appetite. I realize how vital his nutrition is especially now, in fighting this disease and with the chemo. I'm an RN and I have tried an unbelievable number of diets and ideas to get him to eat. The problem, as I told the oncologist, is that William is quite stubborn. I don't think it's nausea or lack of appetite. I actually did give him one of the pills Wednesday, the day after his last chemo just to try it. It's to be given every 2-3 days so we'll see. Anyway, if I put down Swiss cheese, he will eat it (usually). Hamburger, it will be gone. Any kind of dog food, no. Chicken (roasted, stewed) it's a maybe. Now if I puree it with rice, he won't it eat. Same with ground turkey. Meat alone he will usually eat. If it's something I'm eating, he will try it. If I offer something to our other Yorkie and she eats it then he will generally try it. But often he will eat something for a few days (so I buy a supply) then he just turns it down forever. It's like having a toddler again. I know what I am feeding his isn't good for his pancreas but at this point, the oncologist says just feed him what he will eat so I don't even look at the fat content any more. But every meal, every day is a struggle because meal to meal he changes.

lillymae · 05-25-2015, 11:47 PM

The Mirtazapine is an antidepressant & the Cyproheptadine is an antihystamine & often antidepressants can have the opposite effect for the 1st few months, just saying that if this is happening to your pup it may work the opposite for his appetite as a depressed dog will often not eat well. Maybe talk to your vet about the Cyproheptadine, it's deff worth a try. I know how frustrating it is as Sparky is also a very picky eater but did well with extra lean beef or chicken. We use stake very thinly sliced. & Sparky has nothing to do with any kind of rice.Also have you tried any kind of canned cat food ? as that also worked well for Sparky.

MissSunni · 05-26-2015, 03:37 AM

My heart goes out to you. My dog Harry has cancer as well, but he's on Palliative care because his is very advanced and I've chosen not to put him on chemo after watching what my brother went through with 2 of his dogs. I lost another dog in January, the love of my life really after doing every possible medical intervention that could be done, and in the end he just didn't want to keep going. His little 15 yr old body was worn out. This was at the same time I found out about his brother Harry. Harry is actually in no pain and mostly has good days. He does have an apetite still and loves his walks and quiet times with me. He still loves sitting in the sun more then anything and being brushed and pampered

I am breaking all the rules now with him and feed him whatever I'm making for dinner...I make an extra serving of the protein for Harry and give it to him away from Sunni, so he can enjoy it in peace. This is such an individual and difficult decision for anyone to make, and there is no right or wrong way in my opinion as long as you are doing your best for your baby and keeping him out of pain as much as possible.
I do think that when the time comes your dog really does let you know. I know my little George did. I was trying beyond beleif to keep him alive, but by then he was blind and losing his hearing, I think the surgery at that late stage of his life had a huge effect on him in a negative way. He was so confused by his surroundings and if I wasn't near him he would whimper. Harry would lay with him..it was a very sad time. Still is..But I know George knew how much he was loved..I held him close to me as I said goodbye and he just went to sleep in my arms, hearing me tell him I love him and always will. Its hard. I'm praying for you and your sweet William..my heart goes out to you..xox

betsygage · 05-26-2015, 11:27 AM

I didn't know that the medicine for William's appetite was an antidepressant. I can't tell the one pill did anything, and perhaps he didn't really need it then anyway. He's been very perky after his chemo (which was a week ago today) until today. Today he is very quiet and wanting to spend nearly all day in bed. If not in bed, he is very quietly walking (not trotting as usual) out to lie in the sun. It's his favorite place to spend the day. He's eating a few bites of lean beef at a time and a was able to get his NSAID and antacid down him along with a little Blue Buffalo beef stew. Until today he'd been quite social during the day. Today acts like he has the flu. It is difficult to see him like this and it is times like these I wonder if I am doing the right thing when I take him for chemo. I am continuing to feed him whatever he will eat. I optimistically reordered another 100 of his NSAID today. It is comforting, yet sad, to know there are others out there nursing their little ill babies like I am, with all the love in their hearts. Your support and suggestions keep me going.
Last weekend a real estate friend showed us a house next door to hers that will be on the market next week. It is our dream house in the perfect neighborhood. But it has no yard and no way for our "babies" to use a pet door as they are used to. It's in an area where there are deer and lots of Nature. But it is not dog friendly. So we politely told her that at this time, we cannot consider moving. Without our Yorkies we would jump at it. But with William (and Lucy who is 13) there is no way the house would work. I'm not sure she quite understood, but i'll bet everyone here on this website understands.

gemy · 05-26-2015, 03:53 PM

When my gal had cancer I used to feed her fish. Well I had to mix things up a lot - cycled through salmon - steak - chicken all fresh cooked. Sometimes put a smidgen of parmesan cheese on it. Often hand fed her.

At this point in time what ever calories you can get into your loved one it is all good calories.

05-20-2015, 08:04 AM	#1
betsygage Donating Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: California Posts: 38	More chemo. Right or wrong? Took my nearly 16 year for his 3rd chemo yesterday. He has prostate cancer which was diagnosed in Feb. He was not symptomatic and it was found while he was scanned for pancreatitis status. He tolerates the actual chemo well, but after about 14 days he gets very lethargic and has a poor appetite. Last time, he developed colitis (which I'm told is common. In fact, they gave me medicine for it when he was first diagnosed just in case...) but he bounced back quickly. He's a very picky eater. Last year he weighed 4-14. Yesterday he was 4-6. I've tried every feeding venue I can think of. Balance IT, home made, various canned variety. He'll go for it for a day or two then shuts it off. His tumor is stable in size (which is small). He has no symptoms except for an occasional puddle every week or two. His chest x ray is clear with no signs of spread. The oncologist doesn't try to push the chemo and I want to have him with me as long as I can but I feel in my heart he doesn't want it. He's getting so stubborn about his medicine, his food. He hangs out in his "man cave" crate. I think he's depressed. I skipped his last round because I was out of town. He bounced back and looked and felt great. I feel so conflicted. Today he just looks at me like "why did you do this to me again???"

05-25-2015, 11:47 PM	#12
lillymae YT 3000 Club Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Idaho Posts: 4,544	The Mirtazapine is an antidepressant & the Cyproheptadine is an antihystamine & often antidepressants can have the opposite effect for the 1st few months, just saying that if this is happening to your pup it may work the opposite for his appetite as a depressed dog will often not eat well. Maybe talk to your vet about the Cyproheptadine, it's deff worth a try. I know how frustrating it is as Sparky is also a very picky eater but did well with extra lean beef or chicken. We use stake very thinly sliced. & Sparky has nothing to do with any kind of rice.Also have you tried any kind of canned cat food ? as that also worked well for Sparky. Last edited by lillymae; 05-25-2015 at 11:50 PM.

05-26-2015, 03:53 PM	#15
gemy YT 2000 Club Donating Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Huntsville,Ont,Canaada Posts: 12,335 Blog Entries: 2	Fish? When my gal had cancer I used to feed her fish. Well I had to mix things up a lot - cycled through salmon - steak - chicken all fresh cooked. Sometimes put a smidgen of parmesan cheese on it. Often hand fed her. At this point in time what ever calories you can get into your loved one it is all good calories. __________________ Razzle and Dara. Our clan. RIP Karma Dec 24th 2004-July 14 2013 RIP Zoey Jun9 th 2008-May 12 2012. RIP Magic,Mar 26 2006July 1st 2018

05-20-2015, 09:13 AM	#3
betsygage Donating Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: California Posts: 38	I have to drive William 2 hours to a veterinary medical school where he receives IV chemotherapy over about 2 hours. It's always a very long day. Yesterday we left the house at 8:30 and got home at 5:30 but that was because he had an X-ray and ultra sound to stage him as well as labs and chemo. Usually it's just labs and chemo which take a 2 hours less. But it's still a long time for both of us. I have a terrible back (had to go to the chiropractor before we went) so it's a big deal. But it is worth it if it helps him. There was a lady in the waiting area who told me her dog (not a Yorkie) also had prostate cancer. He'd lived 2 years longer than had been expected. My hopes got high! Then they brought her dog out. He was a large dog, looked alert and could sort of walk on his front legs, but had a handle (like on a suitcase) that was used to lift up his hind end because he is unable to move his back legs at all and he was wearing a toddler sized diaper. My heart sank. No way is my baby going down that road.....I pray your medicine continues to work for your baby. It is wonderful that it can be given orally and that it's so well tolerated. Love every day you have together. Thank you for your kind words to me.

05-20-2015, 09:46 AM	#4
Shicks YT 500 Club Member Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: Friendsville Tn. Posts: 879 Blog Entries: 1	Oh my, what a decision. My little one was on chemo for 2 years. He did bounce back after treatments. He also developed colitis. Near the end he also declined food, blood in stool, and a bad case of pancreatictist, even though he had never had this before. And that is what got him. He didn't last 8 hours. So I didn't have a chance to make the decision to stop treatments. If he would have stopped being a "Yorkie" sooner I would have made that decision. So sorry you & your little one is going through this. It's just not fair. I'm sad for you both.

05-20-2015, 09:55 AM	#5
betsygage Donating Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: California Posts: 38	I'm so sorry about your baby. I was getting desperate to get William's pills down him since he hadn't eaten all day. Wouldn't take them in his prescribed food, or chicken. So I broke all the rules and put them in Swiss cheese. Sure enough down they went and he ate quite a bit more. I know it's not good for his pancreas. He's had pancreatitis in the past. His enzymes are off the charts but the US shows it's not active. At this point, I'm trying to keep the cancer at bay...so hard when he won't do what he's supposed to. But he's showing lots more energy now. Seems happy and more like his sweet Yorkie self. Praying it doesn't hurt him.

05-20-2015, 10:18 AM	#7
betsygage Donating Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: California Posts: 38	I don't know about any oral chemo. It hasn't been mentioned. I do know that prostate cancer in dogs is extremely aggressive. Untreated, the life expectancy is about 30 days. He's up running around now so feeling much better. I got his NSAID down him in Swiss cheese (a big no no) but I know he will always take it in that. I'm better about it all right now. When he perks up, so do I. Funny how that works, isn't it? Give your baby girl a big hug from William and me. Betsy

05-22-2015, 03:40 PM	#9
chestermama YT 3000 Club Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: washington Posts: 3,383 Blog Entries: 1	Im sorry, Im sending prayers on the decision that is hard to make

05-22-2015, 09:22 PM	#10
lillymae YT 3000 Club Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Idaho Posts: 4,544	So sorry to hear about your babies diagnosis. My Sparky has Lymphoma & next month he will be in remission for 3 yrs. Yes some chemo drugs can cause colitis so it is important to use the metronidazole when needed as colitis causes a bad tummy ache. Also for the appetite, did your vet give any Cyproheptadine ? it stimulates the appetite. It is important to keep them eating during chemo so they can keep up their strength. If Sparky ever chose to skip a meal, I started him on the Cyproheptadine rite away & usually only needed 1 dose to get him eating again. Prayers for your little one.

05-23-2015, 12:53 PM	#11
betsygage Donating Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: California Posts: 38	The vet gave me a prescription for Mirtazapine for William's appetite. I realize how vital his nutrition is especially now, in fighting this disease and with the chemo. I'm an RN and I have tried an unbelievable number of diets and ideas to get him to eat. The problem, as I told the oncologist, is that William is quite stubborn. I don't think it's nausea or lack of appetite. I actually did give him one of the pills Wednesday, the day after his last chemo just to try it. It's to be given every 2-3 days so we'll see. Anyway, if I put down Swiss cheese, he will eat it (usually). Hamburger, it will be gone. Any kind of dog food, no. Chicken (roasted, stewed) it's a maybe. Now if I puree it with rice, he won't it eat. Same with ground turkey. Meat alone he will usually eat. If it's something I'm eating, he will try it. If I offer something to our other Yorkie and she eats it then he will generally try it. But often he will eat something for a few days (so I buy a supply) then he just turns it down forever. It's like having a toddler again. I know what I am feeding his isn't good for his pancreas but at this point, the oncologist says just feed him what he will eat so I don't even look at the fat content any more. But every meal, every day is a struggle because meal to meal he changes.

05-26-2015, 03:37 AM	#13
MissSunni YT Addict Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: NJ USA Posts: 492	My heart goes out to you. My dog Harry has cancer as well, but he's on Palliative care because his is very advanced and I've chosen not to put him on chemo after watching what my brother went through with 2 of his dogs. I lost another dog in January, the love of my life really after doing every possible medical intervention that could be done, and in the end he just didn't want to keep going. His little 15 yr old body was worn out. This was at the same time I found out about his brother Harry. Harry is actually in no pain and mostly has good days. He does have an apetite still and loves his walks and quiet times with me. He still loves sitting in the sun more then anything and being brushed and pampered I am breaking all the rules now with him and feed him whatever I'm making for dinner...I make an extra serving of the protein for Harry and give it to him away from Sunni, so he can enjoy it in peace. This is such an individual and difficult decision for anyone to make, and there is no right or wrong way in my opinion as long as you are doing your best for your baby and keeping him out of pain as much as possible. I do think that when the time comes your dog really does let you know. I know my little George did. I was trying beyond beleif to keep him alive, but by then he was blind and losing his hearing, I think the surgery at that late stage of his life had a huge effect on him in a negative way. He was so confused by his surroundings and if I wasn't near him he would whimper. Harry would lay with him..it was a very sad time. Still is..But I know George knew how much he was loved..I held him close to me as I said goodbye and he just went to sleep in my arms, hearing me tell him I love him and always will. Its hard. I'm praying for you and your sweet William..my heart goes out to you..xox

05-26-2015, 11:27 AM	#14
betsygage Donating Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: California Posts: 38	I didn't know that the medicine for William's appetite was an antidepressant. I can't tell the one pill did anything, and perhaps he didn't really need it then anyway. He's been very perky after his chemo (which was a week ago today) until today. Today he is very quiet and wanting to spend nearly all day in bed. If not in bed, he is very quietly walking (not trotting as usual) out to lie in the sun. It's his favorite place to spend the day. He's eating a few bites of lean beef at a time and a was able to get his NSAID and antacid down him along with a little Blue Buffalo beef stew. Until today he'd been quite social during the day. Today acts like he has the flu. It is difficult to see him like this and it is times like these I wonder if I am doing the right thing when I take him for chemo. I am continuing to feed him whatever he will eat. I optimistically reordered another 100 of his NSAID today. It is comforting, yet sad, to know there are others out there nursing their little ill babies like I am, with all the love in their hearts. Your support and suggestions keep me going. Last weekend a real estate friend showed us a house next door to hers that will be on the market next week. It is our dream house in the perfect neighborhood. But it has no yard and no way for our "babies" to use a pet door as they are used to. It's in an area where there are deer and lots of Nature. But it is not dog friendly. So we politely told her that at this time, we cannot consider moving. Without our Yorkies we would jump at it. But with William (and Lucy who is 13) there is no way the house would work. I'm not sure she quite understood, but i'll bet everyone here on this website understands.