Brandi is not feeling well at all. Just returned from vet.

[wemple2]

So no blood test either? I would think an ANA would be done first, even before a biopsy. Is animal medicine that much different then human medicine? Well anyway, my prayers are with Brandi, always.

[IDPiper]

You have to do what you feel is best, Dawn!! You know how to contact me if you ever need to talk.

[dawn27]

Originally Posted by wemple2

So no blood test either? I would think an ANA would be done first, even before a biopsy. Is animal medicine that much different then human medicine? Well anyway, my prayers are with Brandi, always.

Sorry I forgot about that part, they cant be done until the infection and antibiotics are out of her system. Hopefully at our two week check up. They did say that the results can be indecisive.

[107barney]

Wow sad thread. Pup needs a specialist.

[dawn27]

Update: All day yesterday she didn't seem to have much of an apatite but I managed to hand feed her some of the moistened kibble. This morning she ate an entire bowel on her own, that progress. She has her first dose of the antibiotics with no change in the infection. Some but not all of the swelling in her throat and glands has gone down. The last time it took two full days (48 hrs) before I saw any change so I expect to see a change by tomorrow late afternoon.

Doc has also suggested Fish Oil supplements, in studies done it has shown to have some affects to improve blood flow and blood vessel function. So, I am open to trying it if it will help her.

Fish Oil Supplements May Ease Lupus

[Sammy Mommy]

I hope you see some improvement and that Brandi is feeling better soon.

[dawn27]

Just picked up some of the Fish Oil capsules 360mlg and they are Huge ("1) I think we are going to have to wait on those until she is feeling much better. Not sure is she will swallow them whole or as willingly as she does the other meds. so this should be an interested attempt.

They are oil filled gel caps, has anyone ever given them or anything similar to your pups? If so how . . ?

[Maximo]

Originally Posted by dawn27

Just picked up some of the Fish Oil capsules 360mlg and they are Huge ("1) I think we are going to have to wait on those until she is feeling much better. Not sure is she will swallow them whole or as willingly as she does the other meds. so this should be an interested attempt.

They are oil filled gel caps, has anyone ever given them or anything similar to your pups? If so how . . ?

Break the capsules open and squeeze the oil onto Brandi's food. That is what I do with my boys' fish oil.

[wemple2]

Hoping for some good news...

[Cherie6446]

I just stick a pin into the fish oil pill and squeeze the oil either into food or a spoon to lick.

[Lolasmom1211]

I've just had a chance to read this thread in full. It makes me very sad to see how both Brandi and Dawn must be suffering.

Just to clarify, a specialist is totally different than a general vet. They see these difficult presentations all the time and know how to deal with them. Seeing a specialist for this problem is no different than a human seeing an oncologist for cancer rather than their family practictioner. The OP could take Brandi to a specialist while on the present antibiotics and steroids and the specialist, most probably, from Dawn's oral history and her vet's records, along with his/her findings, could formulate a better organized plan for this pup than to just "guess and see" which medications and dosages might work. If the present medications are correct and the dosages are what Brandi needs, then Dawn can rest assured that she is doing the right thing. If not, then take the specialists, expert opinion and try that. This certainly seems like a win-win scenario for everyone to me. I don't understand why this would cause anyone added stress. If it were me, this would be the way to alleviate stress.

In light of the fact that AID is a lifetime disease, my thoughts would be that the sooner one figures out the best way to deal with it and it's flare ups, the better off one would be. I know you love your baby - my prayers are with you and Brandi....

[kjc]

Originally Posted by Lolasmom1211

I've just had a chance to read this thread in full. It makes me very sad to see how both Brandi and Dawn must be suffering.

Just to clarify, a specialist is totally different than a general vet. They see these difficult presentations all the time and know how to deal with them. Seeing a specialist for this problem is no different than a human seeing an oncologist for cancer rather than their family practictioner. The OP could take Brandi to a specialist while on the present antibiotics and steroids and the specialist, most probably, from Dawn's oral history and her vet's records, along with his/her findings, could formulate a better organized plan for this pup than to just "guess and see" which medications and dosages might work. If the present medications are correct and the dosages are what Brandi needs, then Dawn can rest assured that she is doing the right thing. If not, then take the specialists, expert opinion and try that. This certainly seems like a win-win scenario for everyone to me. I don't understand why this would cause anyone added stress. If it were me, this would be the way to alleviate stress.

In light of the fact that AID is a lifetime disease, my thoughts would be that the sooner one figures out the best way to deal with it and it's flare ups, the better off one would be. I know you love your baby - my prayers are with you and Brandi....

Well said....

Just want to add that a Specialist has had an additional 4 years of college compared to a GP, in his/her specialty alone.

Also read the links.... this disease is extremely rare in dogs, knowing this I would push for a definitive diagnosis. Although the ANA may be indecisive, with this disease, depending on how well the steroids are working, it could show positive or negative... It does take time for ANAs to show in the blood, it also takes time for the steroids to fix the problem. Trying to say this may be a test that will need to be done at intervals throughout her treatment in order to monitor her progress.

I'd consider getting Dr Sisson's input on her condition, as he's a world renown specialist in the field. He's very reasonable, and does phone consultations (with your vet).

[dawn27]

Originally Posted by Lolasmom1211

I've just had a chance to read this thread in full. It makes me very sad to see how both Brandi and Dawn must be suffering.

Just to clarify, a specialist is totally different than a general vet. They see these difficult presentations all the time and know how to deal with them. Seeing a specialist for this problem is no different than a human seeing an oncologist for cancer rather than their family practictioner. The OP could take Brandi to a specialist while on the present antibiotics and steroids and the specialist, most probably, from Dawn's oral history and her vet's records, along with his/her findings, could formulate a better organized plan for this pup than to just "guess and see" which medications and dosages might work. If the present medications are correct and the dosages are what Brandi needs, then Dawn can rest assured that she is doing the right thing. If not, then take the specialists, expert opinion and try that. This certainly seems like a win-win scenario for everyone to me. I don't understand why this would cause anyone added stress. If it were me, this would be the way to alleviate stress.

In light of the fact that AID is a lifetime disease, my thoughts would be that the sooner one figures out the best way to deal with it and it's flare ups, the better off one would be. I know you love your baby - my prayers are with you and Brandi....

Yes, and that is what we are trying to do . . it just so happens that during that process of trying to find out the proper dose of the steroids it became apparent that going from 15 to 10 mlg was not enough. Which caused the flair up. She in now on a larger dose of 25mlg including the antibiotics until the flair up is over and than we go back down the to 15 mlg. Once we get her on a regulated dose of steroids we move on to the next best treatment which would include additional medications so that the steroids would not have to be taken on a daily basis. We just haven 't gotten to that point yet.

Update: She is eating, taking meds with no issues. the swelling is not as bad to day as it was on day one.

I also just got of the phone with Dr. Breen's office (thank you for the link Carolyn) to see if they had any other insight that would help me better understand our options. They confirmed that yes the steroids can cause issue in getting a correct diagnosis if not read by a Dermatophytosis. Plus any ANA blood work would only help in keeping track of the disease as it progresses and would eventually affect her internal organs. We had the blood work done on the third visit to the vets office and it showed only a slight elevation in her kidneys. They also said exactly what my vet said that there are other drugs that can be added to the steroid so that they would not have to be taken as often because of the damage that can be done from prolonged use. They said that they normally subscribe a med called Imuran. Not sure if that was the one that my vet mentioned but more than likely it is.

Speaking with them reassures me that we are on the right track !! We go back in two weeks for a check up.

[dawn27]

Azathioprine (Imuran) Wow what a nasty little drug this one is . . . scares me to think about the possibility of her having to be on it.

01 Azathioprine (Imuran) - VeterinaryPartner.com - a VIN company!

[lovespandp]

Keeping Brandi in my thoughts and prayers Dawn. Praying she will get better soon!!

((HUGS)) to you as well, keep strong for her.