Really worried about Libby

[Connie]

I'm so sorry it took me a while to update. I spent an hour and a half with my vet and once home, the phone kept ringing. The first thing he said when he walked in was that the blood wasn't as bad as he expected it to be. He said the lady who did the test was concerned with the WBC's as they don't have very good shape...most look squashed or broken and difficult to distinguish, but he was not concerned as he said this blood came through a syringe and they took large amounts of blood for such a small dog. I still don't know what her albumin count is now. Anyway, a biopsy is needed to confirm this diagnosis, but he doesn't want to put her through that and I don't either. Her ultra sound shows that not the whole intestine is affected, but that could change. It also didn't show a thickening of the wall of the intestine, but he could feel that there is a thickening when he examined her. Her kidneys and other organs look fine on the ultrasound. She still has ascides fluid in her abdomen, but it's so much less than it was. He said this disease can go fast and some go into remission, which he hopes will be the case for Libby. I need to get her a low fat diet...lowest fat possible. Think I will do a phone consult with a nutritionist and get recommendations and also know which supplements could help Libby. Her urine is clear of blood, but very highly concentrated and he said she needs to drink more water. I have only gotten her to drink water when she eats for the past week, but when we came home from the vet, both times today, she drank water on her own. She also has a lot of protein in her urine. So, for now, I feed her low fat and continue on the metradonazole twice a day. I know I am forgetting much of what I should be telling you, but my head has been spinning. Libby is sleeping on my bed. Poor baby was sitting at the top step of the steps that go up to the bed...she must have been too tired to jump that little way to the bed. I am going to try to keep it quiet around here and let her rest. Thank you so much, each and every one of you. I appreciate your friendship and your prayers so VERY much! I have to take her back in one week for a checkup and more bloodwork. Oh...the folic acid and B12 test go to the U of M, and will tell if she needs to be on B12 shots. He thought that would be back by Monday. He will be out of town, so I'll be dealing with that other vet.

[rubynrosie]

I just want to say my thoughts are with you and Libby. The girls and I will continue to say prayers for your family!

[yorkietalkjilly]

I'm sorry to hear that you didn't get the best of news but hopefully you can get a good diagnosis before too long and treat some in the meantime to keep her less symptomatic and keep her from getting worse. Getting her ascites decreased has got to help her generally and I'll bet she's grateful for that. Poor little thing - I can just see her sitting on that top doggie step. My Tibbe will do things like that when his tummy is upset. I hate to see them suffering and feeling bad. Here is hoping and praying your vet will get some final answers soon. She's in my prayers.

[ladyjane]

Cookie had a biopsy of her intestines and it was no big deal. She was estimated to be 4 at the time. She suffered no ill effects and as a result we knew what we were dealing with and were able to treat appropriately.

I have two pups with protein losing enteropathies, neither of which has been managed as Libby is. I know you love your vet, but I am going to be perfectly honest with you Connie and tell you that I have grave concerns that you are going to lose her if this is not managed in a more timely way. As for diet, I am going to strongly advise that you do a consult with a board certified vet nutritionist...not just someone who calls themself a nutritionist and is not credentialed. You are dealing with serious issues here and I am trying SO hard to make you see this. Now, IF you simply are not doing what I have suggested because of financial issues, then I guess nothing else I can suggest....but IF you can afford these things that you are not wanting to do IE: board certified interists, then I strongly suggest you find a way to get her to the hospital.

I have been praying for her every day...I hate seeing this. I pray you won't be offended here but I simply cannot just ignore this and not advise you about what I think because I think she is going to die if you don't do something. I hope I am wrong, but it does not sound like it.

[ladyjane]

The bottom line, someone needs to quickly diagnose this...is it PLE or PLN? She has ascites and that is concerning. What is the vet doing about the ascites? I don't believe that nutrition is the treatment for that....medications, needle draining and/or plasma is usually the treatment from what I understand. The following links discuss these issues and the treatments....

http://www.vimpva.com/articles/Prote...nteropathy.pdf

Protein-Losing Nephropathy | AKC Canine Health Foundation

[msyorktown]

Just seeing this now...so sorry you are going through this Connie.
Prayers for Libby and you being sent. Please take care of yourself as well.
((huggzz))

[TxVicki]

I can only say more prayers for Libby, and pray that this Vet has made a correct DX, for Libby's sake.

[Patti]

I was hoping for a better diagnosis for sweet Libby. I am praying she can get on a diet that works for her and combined with the medicine be maintained for many years to come. I know you must both be so exhausted. Hugs to you and little Libby.

[horsnaround]

Sending many more prayers for Libby and you

[Trishe]

Aww, I just read through this entire thread, what an ordeal you're going through. You are taking such good care of your little baby. I hope Libby feels better soon! Hope your brother in laws doing ok. Take care.

[107barney]

Originally Posted by ladyjane

Cookie had a biopsy of her intestines and it was no big deal. She was estimated to be 4 at the time. She suffered no ill effects and as a result we knew what we were dealing with and were able to treat appropriately.

I have two pups with protein losing enteropathies, neither of which has been managed as Libby is. I know you love your vet, but I am going to be perfectly honest with you Connie and tell you that I have grave concerns that you are going to lose her if this is not managed in a more timely way. As for diet, I am going to strongly advise that you do a consult with a board certified vet nutritionist...not just someone who calls themself a nutritionist and is not credentialed. You are dealing with serious issues here and I am trying SO hard to make you see this. Now, IF you simply are not doing what I have suggested because of financial issues, then I guess nothing else I can suggest....but IF you can afford these things that you are not wanting to do IE: board certified interists, then I strongly suggest you find a way to get her to the hospital.

I have been praying for her every day...I hate seeing this. I pray you won't be offended here but I simply cannot just ignore this and not advise you about what I think because I think she is going to die if you don't do something. I hope I am wrong, but it does not sound like it.

I couldn't agree more. Some of the things posted concern me too. I would be at a specialist so that a diagnosis could be reached and it seems this vet doesn't know what the issue is. If this is a kidney issue, then why the metronidazole...and if it's a protein losing enteropathy like Lymphangectasia, then why the protein loss through the kidneys. And why no treatment for the ascites? None of this makes sense to me.

If the albumin drops any lower, the dog will need blood products, and I'm sure this local vet doesn't carry it -- few places do, usually large specialist or vet hospitals. A low fat diet is just dandy, but where's the prednisone, or other treatment for the lymphangectasia?

And lastly a thickening of the intestine that the vet could feel on exam?? That would have me running out the door fast.

Connie, please go to a board certified vet, your dog really needs it.

[Patti]

I just spoke with Connie and Libby's albumin did go up to 1.8 and her ascites subsided quite a bit. Connie appreciates everyones prayers and concerns but will be doing what her and her vet feel is the best for Libby. Her vet is experienced in dealing with this condition and working closely with her. Connie would not be doing anything to put Libby in jeopardy. She is well aware of the seriousness of this condition. So please keep them both in your prayers as you can well imagine this is a very stressful time for Connie. Thanks

[ladyjane]

I have not suggested that Connie is intentionally putting Libby in jeopardy. I guess my concern is from the fact that Cookie had an albumin of 1.8 and was immediately admitted to ICU.
I would be remiss if I did not share my experiences.
I am sorry if this offends anyone but sometimes vets are just wrong. This is not a real common condition so I don't know how he has a lot of experience dealing with it, but who am I to question. I see nothing wrong with suggesting a second opinion.
As for prayers...I have prayed for Libby since the first day I saw this thread and will continue to do so.

[107barney]

Originally Posted by Patti

I just spoke with Connie and Libby's albumin did go up to 1.8 and her ascites subsided quite a bit. Connie appreciates everyones prayers and concerns but will be doing what her and her vet feel is the best for Libby. Her vet is experienced in dealing with this condition and working closely with her. Connie would not be doing anything to put Libby in jeopardy. She is well aware of the seriousness of this condition. So please keep them both in your prayers as you can well imagine this is a very stressful time for Connie. Thanks

Understood, and will pray for Libby. Having had many vets misdiagnose many issues over the years and have to seek out other care for my dogs, I'm simply not willing to put my dogs' life in any one person's hand and be a blind sheep....We have listed enough here to raise eyebrows which warrants another opinion. I don't see why this dog isn't in a hospital, plain and simple.

Don't spear us for saying what's on our minds....

But, prayers for Libby.

[ladyjane]

A helpful link about lymphangectasia:

Intestinal Lymphangiectasia

About biopsies......quote from link above:

As mentioned, there are four likely causes of protein-losing enteropathy. To distinguish them and initial the correct treatment, an intestinal biopsy is essential. This can be done surgically or via endoscopy but rational treatment is not possible without a tissue sample.