Canine Vasculitis and Pentoxifylline-need advice

[Lisa and Pic]

Continued prayers for your little Jenna.

I did want to add that when Piccolo had vasculitis, she did have some weird things going on with her breathing. I took her to the ER once because of it, but they said there was nothing they could do. (It was more of a breathing out thing, than a breathing in thing.) She also constantly licked her nose and even licked off the black pigment. I think she snores to this day because of the vasculitis.

I hope you and your vet will be able to figure out if your girl can tolerate any kind of prednisone. It was a huge miracle for Piccolo.

[Marhcarter]

Im so sorry poor Jenna is still so miserable. Keeping you in my prayers.

[ladyjane]

I doubt it is the med causing issues. She has a condition that will take time to resolve. Talk with your vet, but you want to be sure she is getting a therapeutic dose of the medicine.

Hope today gets better.

[Jenna AK]

Thank you all.
It's almost eight here and she is no better. She feels very warm to me but I am rubbish with rectal temp so no idea if it's fever or just the vasculitis. But either way she is only taking pedialyte right now. How can I get the pentoxifylline in if she won't eat?
Could there also be some underlying infection they haven't found? I'd swear she's in need of antibiotics but they said her white blood cells were okay on the panel. Could they just not be recognizing an infection? (The cells, not the doctors. ) If this is an autoimmune disease, why aren't the white cells responding?

Lisa that's good to know about the breathing. But if Jenna can't regulate her temp and keeps doing this she'll get dehydrated again and I don't want her stuck back at the hospital by herself again. She barely knew me when I picked her up and honestly she was not this bad when I dropped her off last Friday.
I'm going to call and get a plan of action. At the very least they need to call in this internist, we need to have a better idea of what we're facing especially since she can't tolerate steroids.

Since just about everything she swallows seems to make her stomach worse (it was uncomfortable most of yesterday) then I wonder if we've got the complication of pancreatitis or even if her kidneys are involved now.
I lost my Mackenzie River Husky three years ago on the 16th of March due to kidney failure. I can't lose Jenna the same way. :'(

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by ladyjane

What I do know is that cutaneous vasculitis can get bad really fast. When Dixie had it, I swore she was developing lesions and losing her hair while we were standing there watching her. The prednisone worked quickly to stop it, but she did not improve for some time. If this is that, then it makes sense it is worse because they had her for four days and as far as I understand they gave her nothing. Also, her skin would feel very hot in the areas where there is hair loss.

As for the abdomen...I don't know why you suspect lymphangectasia, but you are correct, to diagnose it a biopsy needs to be done. Has she had protein loss??

I just googled and found this place in your area....there is a Dr. Cook there who lives in Fairbanks and she is board certified. I really, really think you need a consult with a boarded internist ASAP. Of course, they don't come cheaply BUT the consult itself probably would be between $150 - $200 and you might not really need anything done. Just take all records with you if you go there so they have something to look at.

Internal Medicine Specialists at Alaska Emergency Clinic | Anchorage Emergency Veterinarian | Pet Emergency Treatment Inc.

With all of the questions you have it is clear to me that you are still questioning the vet's diagnosis.

If I felt this way, I would do what I suggested above. Get another opinion!! BTW...the name of the specialist is Dr. Love...not Dr. Cook. That is one of the specialists I use. Sorry.

Prayers for Jenna and you.

[ladyjane]

Sometimes pups just don't eat or drink much. When mine are like that I don't try to give them pedialyte. I have seen a few people here talk about it but honestly I have never done it nor has my vet ever suggested it. I monitor them closely for signs of dehydration and take them in IF they show signs...other than that I allow them to drink on their own. Honestly if they are dehydrating, giving them syringes of water is not going to change that. Perhaps if you try to relax a bit it might be better? You sound frantic...now I realize you are worried, but either you have to trust the vets who have seen her or go for another opinion. You can't do this to yourself or her any longer...it is not going to help!

[Jenna AK]

Thank you ladyjane, I did ask my vet today if he had consulted Dr. Love. He says he used to but she is very hard to reach these days and mostly works in Anchorage, so he discussed Jenna's case with another doctor since time was of the essence. I think he is a good vet, it is the attending vet over the weekend that I have an issue with currently.
We took her in as per our vet's instructions because she was not eating and drinking. He was apparently concerned that the redness on her skin was so extensive, and it had not looked that way when he had to leave town during her stay at the office... but the attending had released her looking that way the other day and since my first vet had not returned yet I had no one to consult about it. So we have taken her off the food they were feeding her while in the office those few days and for the day or so she was home as she is obviously reacting to it. She will now be switched to a vegetarian diet and he is getting together with a nutritionist to help me put something together for her to be on long term.
She ate a few of the new kibbles today after we got home, has had her pentoxi dose and some benadryl and is now resting comfortably.
She is doing better with her walking too, when she was so sick the other day she couldn't get past the front porch. Today and yesterday she went down the street to do number two. (I took a sample in in case they needed it.) The Dr. we saw today said she is not dehydrated and her temp has actually come down a wee bit. So this is good news.
He will be on all weekend if I need anything, so I feel much better. He thinks we will see more improvement in her once we can get her up to the more therapeutic dose of .8 mls twice a day, but currently she is on the .4 mls for four more days to reduce the possibility of her having a reacton.

I'm sorry if I seem frantic to you. I guess it comes from the sense of being responsible for her illness by giving her treats that I would not otherwise have fed. I am trying my best to keep calm as I know it will upset her if I am upset. It is hard when I see her so stressed too and there's nothing I can do about it. Anxiolytics are contraindicated for her because it will reverse the effect of the pentoxi. (I know...perhaps I should have a few for her, right?) I just want her to be comfortable. The vet was sure she was not in pain though, so I guess now it's just a matter of her getting used to the medicine until it doesn't bother her to take it anymore. He is not going to give her steroids again because she may have gotten the blood in her vomit and stool from the Medrol (I did ask him if there was any way she could use them if it were a different one, he said no) and since there can be no famotidine or anything else that would counteract an ulcer given to her during this therapy, we must hope this will be enough to help, and her new diet.
Once again, thank you for all your advice and prayers. I hope we are now moving forward in a positive direction.

[ladyjane]

Hope that Jenna is having a good day.

[Jenna AK]

Thank you ladyjane.
Well I'm trying to be circumspect but I think when I looked at her ears this morning they seemed a wee bit less red. She also seems to tolerate the pentoxifylline well. (Please don't let me jinx that!)
However she's been gagging and trying to vomit for the last day or so on and off. I don't know for sure what is causing it yet, but today was the worst I've seen since she went into the hospital for those four days.
She also has itchy face. She has a few welts on her muzzle and when she is awake will try to rub her face on anything she can reach.
The vet wanted me to begin using sucralfate again but I wonder if we're placing the dosing of that too close to the other medicines or to her meal time? He said at least a half hour before I give the pentoxifylline I should give the sucralfate, but I also need to try to get her to eat right before the pentoxifylline, I think that may be too much altogether for her poor tummy.
I'm hoping she is not developing an allergy to the food already. She's only had three helpings, but she sure wanted to bring this mornings' back up. She'd also had the sucralfate a half hour before I fed her though, so not sure if it wasn't that. I know it gave her stomachaches and cramping when we used it before. I wonder if it could be responsible for the reaction on her face as well?
She is resting comfortably currently. I can't get anything done she is sat in my lap all day! (Not complaining!)
Her poor leg though where they had the IV. The skin is raw at the elbow, I think the bandage irritated it...and the hole where they inserted the needle looks inflamed. Using neosporin on both as per vet's instructions. The last thing we need is to add another med at this point, don't want her to have to need antibiotics too.

Do you have any experience with sucralfate in your pups, ladyjane? If so has it ever caused stomach upset?

[TxVicki]

Originally Posted by Jenna AK

Thank you ladyjane.
Well I'm trying to be circumspect but I think when I looked at her ears this morning they seemed a wee bit less red. She also seems to tolerate the pentoxifylline well. (Please don't let me jinx that!)
However she's been gagging and trying to vomit for the last day or so on and off. I don't know for sure what is causing it yet, but today was the worst I've seen since she went into the hospital for those four days.
She also has itchy face. She has a few welts on her muzzle and when she is awake will try to rub her face on anything she can reach.
The vet wanted me to begin using sucralfate again but I wonder if we're placing the dosing of that too close to the other medicines or to her meal time? He said at least a half hour before I give the pentoxifylline I should give the sucralfate, but I also need to try to get her to eat right before the pentoxifylline, I think that may be too much altogether for her poor tummy.
I'm hoping she is not developing an allergy to the food already. She's only had three helpings, but she sure wanted to bring this mornings' back up. She'd also had the sucralfate a half hour before I fed her though, so not sure if it wasn't that. I know it gave her stomachaches and cramping when we used it before. I wonder if it could be responsible for the reaction on her face as well?
She is resting comfortably currently. I can't get anything done she is sat in my lap all day! (Not complaining!)
Her poor leg though where they had the IV. The skin is raw at the elbow, I think the bandage irritated it...and the hole where they inserted the needle looks inflamed. Using neosporin on both as per vet's instructions. The last thing we need is to add another med at this point, don't want her to have to need antibiotics too.

Do you have any experience with sucralfate in your pups, ladyjane? If so has it ever caused stomach upset?

I know that when I have to give Sulcralfate it is be done two hours prior to eating or other meds. Also are they having you give it to her in the Slurry Form??? This where the dose is dissolved in water and given by syringe.

Prayers still going for Jenna.

[Jenna AK]

Yes ma'am, I have to split and grind the tablets and water them down. Wish I had a proper mortar and pestle but I'm using a butter knife handle and a juice glass...haha. We'll put more time between that and the other meds and food from now on. How long does it coat the stomach after ingestion, do you know?

These gagging episodes are coming completely randomly now. She tried drinking water and gagged. She was sleeping and her tummy started convulsing. So not sure of the cause. Probably just a side effect of the pentoxifylline but I'm not stopping that now, it seems to be helping.
She just went out and had a normal bowel movement, first one in weeks, YAY!
(Only on a forum like this can one get excited about poop!)

[ladyjane]

I actually purchased a tiny mortar and pestle on Amazon! I was looking for pill crushers and that was there...it was very inexpensive. Nice to have on hand.

[Jenna AK]

Really? Cool I'll have to look that up.
I wouldn't have thought to look for one there. I'd actually tried to find needle-less 1 ml syringes there and when I got them they had needles on them. They wouldn't let me return them either. >

[ladyjane]

The needles twist right off!

[Jenna AK]

I tried, I think I just don't have enough hand strength.
Will give it another shot...(ugh...bad unintentional pun)