Cassie is in trouble

[broodizt]

Originally Posted by kjc

I agree.. no Chiro or PT... she's always handled anesthesia well, so I don't think that will be a problem at all.

I think maybe your vet is trying to protect you in a sense. I don't think the vet that did the dental is trying to scare you either, as he is not the one that would be doing the surgery, if she needs it.

I have to go now, but I'll keep you both in my thoughts and prayers....

I agree, maybe she was trying to protect me, but I still needed to know....I can't understand why she would keep these things from me......Just to clarify:

The surgeon who told me about the AAI was not the Vet who did the teeth extractions. I know there are a lot of players here, and even I get confused sometimes, but what happened was, when Cassie was in the ER around the corner from me, recovering from pneumonia, the ER doctor who was caring for her showed her X-rays to a surgeon whom I had never met before, because when I told her Cassie had a curvature of the spine, and on the X-ray they took of her lungs (they could also see her spine because she is so tiny they could see her whole body practically,) they did not see a curvature of the spine. So it was this surgeon whom I had never met, that talked with me about what he saw on the X-rays. The Vet who did the dentistry, the one Tamera recommended, he is an hour away from me and had no idea she had AAI. As a matter of fact, he said had he known, he would have hesitated to put her under anesthesia, much less pull 19 teeth. He is the one who is going to show the X-rays to his consultant on Wednesday.

I know that she's been under anesthesia before, and shes done fine, but each time, it is terrifying and I never want to go through it again. I trust completely Dr. Feinberg, the Vet Dentist that did the extractions, as he is extremely careful and familiar working with tiny tiny dogs. He calls me at home, he takes each pet and treats it as his own. He will call me at 2 AM in the morning if I need him and Cassie or Muffin were in trouble or in pain. He has given me his home number. His anesthesia is the safest and the best. Although the VSH is a top top hospital associated with UC Davis, it is like an institution. The vet's do not know me there. Cassie and I are just a number. I do not feel as safe going there. I really really am frightened out of my wits to go there. I keep dreaming that I go there and they come out of surgery with an "I'm sorry" look on their faces. I better end here, I think I'm making myself hysterical. I have to calm down. Thanks for everything. Will update soon.
Love,

Shellie

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by broodizt

I agree, maybe she was trying to protect me, but I still needed to know....I can't understand why she would keep these things from me......Just to clarify:

The surgeon who told me about the AAI was not the Vet who did the teeth extractions. I know there are a lot of players here, and even I get confused sometimes, but what happened was, when Cassie was in the ER around the corner from me, recovering from pneumonia, the ER doctor who was caring for her showed her X-rays to a surgeon whom I had never met before, because when I told her Cassie had a curvature of the spine, and on the X-ray they took of her lungs (they could also see her spine because she is so tiny they could see her whole body practically,) they did not see a curvature of the spine. So it was this surgeon whom I had never met, that talked with me about what he saw on the X-rays. The Vet who did the dentistry, the one Tamera recommended, he is an hour away from me and had no idea she had AAI. As a matter of fact, he said had he known, he would have hesitated to put her under anesthesia, much less pull 19 teeth. He is the one who is going to show the X-rays to his consultant on Wednesday.

I know that she's been under anesthesia before, and shes done fine, but each time, it is terrifying and I never want to go through it again. I trust completely Dr. Feinberg, the Vet Dentist that did the extractions, as he is extremely careful and familiar working with tiny tiny dogs. He calls me at home, he takes each pet and treats it as his own. He will call me at 2 AM in the morning if I need him and Cassie or Muffin were in trouble or in pain. He has given me his home number. His anesthesia is the safest and the best. Although the VSH is a top top hospital associated with UC Davis, it is like an institution. The vet's do not know me there. Cassie and I are just a number. I do not feel as safe going there. I really really am frightened out of my wits to go there. I keep dreaming that I go there and they come out of surgery with an "I'm sorry" look on their faces. I better end here, I think I'm making myself hysterical. I have to calm down. Thanks for everything. Will update soon.
Love,

Shellie

You really need to think long and hard here. You say your vets know you and all...and you have so much faith in them; but the bottom line imho is that they should have long ago suspected something was wrong neurologically. I am saying this because of the description you gave regarding her head bobbing when she walks.

I know you want warm and fuzzy, but that is not what is needed for a proper diagnosis. A proper diagnosis does not mean surgery....it means just that: diagnosis! I cannot believe that ANY vet would suggest doing anything further to Cassie until they know exactly what is wrong with her!

I hate saying this to you...and don't mean to trash your vets. They may be very nice...but nice is not diagnostic. You really need to know exactly what is up with Cassie!

[broodizt]

Originally Posted by ladyjane

You really need to think long and hard here. You say your vets know you and all...and you have so much faith in them; but the bottom line imho is that they should have long ago suspected something was wrong neurologically. I am saying this because of the description you gave regarding her head bobbing when she walks.

I know you want warm and fuzzy, but that is not what is needed for a proper diagnosis. A proper diagnosis does not mean surgery....it means just that: diagnosis! I cannot believe that ANY vet would suggest doing anything further to Cassie until they know exactly what is wrong with her!

I hate saying this to you...and don't mean to trash your vets. They may be very nice...but nice is not diagnostic. You really need to know exactly what is up with Cassie!

I know, ladyjane,
I don't know why any of my vets, not one, ever mentioned it to me. I have been asking myself the same question. I am shaken. I totally agree and there is no question, and there never was one, that I will take her to vsh. I was just saying that I was terrified, and still am. Still, it doesn't change the fact that I will take her there. Still shaking in my boots :-)

Shellie

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by broodizt

I know, ladyjane,
I don't know why any of my vets, not one, ever mentioned it to me. I have been asking myself the same question. I am shaken. I totally agree and there is no question, and there never was one, that I will take her to vsh. I was just saying that I was terrified, and still am. Still, it doesn't change the fact that I will take her there. Still shaking in my boots :-)

Shellie

I know you are...and I am so sorry. I would be sick, too. Just try to think positive....those people, while it is a large facility, are not there to harm her. They will be thorough and careful.

You just need to know what you are dealing with so that you can think about what you might do. You really may opt to do nothing. ... and she could be fine just as is. Each case is different! My foster, Sammy, is living proof of that. I just think you need to know what it is for sure.

[DBlain]

shellie I am so sorry to hear what you are going through, I must say you are very lucky that you are a member of YT, because most of the gals on this thread know more about serious medical conditions that occur in yorkies than vets do. Between their years on YT and with the yorkies they have seen through rescue they have been around more yorkies with AAI than most regular vets. Did you ask your Holistic Vet how many she has seen? I am glad that you are listening and taking their advice. Since you will be going by yourself, and will most likely be under stress perhaps the gals here could help you make a list of all questions, tests, or meds they think you should discuss while at your appointment. I know you are nervous to go there, but with the information you are gaining on here you will be well equipped to discuss and ask questions which should make for a much better visit. I will keep you and your babies in my prayers.

[broodizt]

Originally Posted by DBlain

shellie I am so sorry to hear what you are going through, I must say you are very lucky that you are a member of YT, because most of the gals on this thread know more about serious medical conditions that occur in yorkies than vets do. Between their years on YT and with the yorkies they have seen through rescue they have been around more yorkies with AAI than most regular vets. Did you ask your Holistic Vet how many she has seen? I am glad that you are listening and taking their advice. Since you will be going by yourself, and will most likely be under stress perhaps the gals here could help you make a list of all questions, tests, or meds they think you should discuss while at your appointment. I know you are nervous to go there, but with the information you are gaining on here you will be well equipped to discuss and ask questions which should make for a much better visit. I will keep you and your babies in my prayers.

Thank you so much for your post. Yes, I know that I am very blessed to have you all in my life and I thank God every day that I have you. You are keeping me sane, and I really mean it. I think I would go off the deep end without all of you wonderful people. I simply can't thank you all enough. Really truly deeply. I think what you suggested is a fabulous idea, and if anyone would take the time out of their busy schedule to give me questions and info about tests, meds etc. I would be eternally grateful.

Much love,
Shellie

Thank you all for everything

[Patti]

I can imagine how scared you are. I will keep you both in my prayers.

[mugwee1]

Keeping you and Cassie in my prayer's.

[lillymae]

Shellie, ladyjane has mentioned one of her little guys who has multiple issues & 2 of the things he has are AAI & Chiari both of these are life threatening & should never be treated by anyone who is not specialized in treating them so do as she says & go to the specialists she recommends. I know that you have a very good relationship with your holistic vet but some things are simply best left to a specialist. My Sassy had Chiari & I would NEVER let a Chiro touch her neck. With serious neck issues such as AAI & Chiari it can have a domino affect to the spine & it's fine to let a Chiro adjust the spine & it can help relieve some of the stress on the neck but NEVER let them touch her neck. And Shellie, I have had every dog & cat I have rescued to a Chiropractor & I know what a Chiro can & can't treat & what they should & should NOT treat & I can tell you that ALL of the Chiros I have used for my rescues would Never touch the neck of an AAI or Chiari pup & IF you ever went to one who wanted to adjust the neck of an AAI or Chiari pup you need to tell them NO !!!! & walk out with your pup & Never go back. I must say that I too am shocked that your vets have never sent you to a specialist with your baby given her symptoms & IMO is inexcusable.

[lillymae]

Originally Posted by broodizt

Thank you so much for your post. Yes, I know that I am very blessed to have you all in my life and I thank God every day that I have you. You are keeping me sane, and I really mean it. I think I would go off the deep end without all of you wonderful people. I simply can't thank you all enough. Really truly deeply. I think what you suggested is a fabulous idea, and if anyone would take the time out of their busy schedule to give me questions and info about tests, meds etc. I would be eternally grateful.

Much love,
Shellie

Thank you all for everything

Shellie, I don't think anyone here can recommend any kind of meds until you have a diagnosis. I can say that if this were my pup I would definitely be headed to a Neurologist ASAP & I would be insisting on an MRI of the head & neck & most likely a spinal tap. I can't see what her spine looks like but from your description I would want an MRI of her full spine as well. I will be praying that things are not as bad as they appear to be & that with treatment whatever that may be she will live a long & happy life.

[broodizt]

Originally Posted by lillymae

Shellie, ladyjane has mentioned one of her little guys who has multiple issues & 2 of the things he has are AAI & Chiari both of these are life threatening & should never be treated by anyone who is not specialized in treating them so do as she says & go to the specialists she recommends. I know that you have a very good relationship with your holistic vet but some things are simply best left to a specialist. My Sassy had Chiari & I would NEVER let a Chiro touch her neck. With serious neck issues such as AAI & Chiari it can have a domino affect to the spine & it's fine to let a Chiro adjust the spine & it can help relieve some of the stress on the neck but NEVER let them touch her neck. And Shellie, I have had every dog & cat I have rescued to a Chiropractor & I know what a Chiro can & can't treat & what they should & should NOT treat & I can tell you that ALL of the Chiros I have used for my rescues would Never touch the neck of an AAI or Chiari pup & IF you ever went to one who wanted to adjust the neck of an AAI or Chiari pup you need to tell them NO !!!! & walk out with your pup & Never go back. I must say that I too am shocked that your vets have never sent you to a specialist with your baby given her symptoms & IMO is inexcusable.

Hi lillymae,
Yes, as I've mentioned previously , I was not going to go the route of chiro or PT, I was going to go to VSH and have an MRI done to find out what the heck is going on with my baby. So rest assured, the chiro and PT is not going to happen.

[broodizt]

Originally Posted by lillymae

Shellie, I don't think anyone here can recommend any kind of meds until you have a diagnosis. I can say that if this were my pup I would definitely be headed to a Neurologist ASAP & I would be insisting on an MRI of the head & neck & most likely a spinal tap. I can't see what her spine looks like but from your description I would want an MRI of her full spine as well. I will be praying that things are not as bad as they appear to be & that with treatment whatever that may be she will live a long & happy life.

Okay, MRI of head, neck and spine, and spinal tap. Thank you, this is extremely helpful. What kinds of things is the spinal tap for? Is it painful? Will she be anesthetized for the spinal tap?

[GeorgiesMomma]

Originally Posted by broodizt

Okay, MRI of head, neck and spine, and spinal tap. Thank you, this is extremely helpful. What kinds of things is the spinal tap for? Is it painful? Will she be anesthetized for the spinal tap?

Shellie, I will say a prayer for you and Cassie. Georgie was diagnosed with AAI last September and his surgery was successful. I agree with Donna people here know more than my Vet ever will about our sweet babies. It took 6+ Vet visits and then a visit to a neuro to diagnose Georgie. The specialist gave us an 80% chance that not only would Georgie be "fixed" but he would be better than he ever was after surgery and recovery....I am here to tell you HE IS! I can totally relate to how you feel there is hope. Please keep us posted we are all here for you and Cassie.

[Julia Howard]

Shellie,
I have gone the route of the AAI with one of my little boys and my vet treated him for a week with meds and confinement and insisted it was a back injury although x-rays didnt show anything. After one week of his screaming and not getting any better I literally pitched a fit with him to get me an appointment with Auburn Vet School. He resisted sending us due to the expense and he really thought he knew what was going on but he was not living with Kole and seeing the pain and agony that we were going through. He had even sent him home with an IV and we transported him to Auburn with an IV. They did an MRI and immediately knew what the problem was but by that time the brain stem was shutting down his organs and they told us it was too late. They could have done surgery that has a good success rate (even though it is a serious surgery) and implanted screws to hold the
vertebra together if we had gotten him there in time. We were too late for him and a lot of the fault lies with my vet. This is a large vet clinic who sees thousands of dogs but had never seen an AAI. So, you really need to be in a place where this type of problem is seen and treated. My vet did not know the outcome of Kole's visit for several months because I was so angry. The hospital eventually sent him Kole's chart and in turn he donated money to establish a fund for this condition in Kole's memory. That was great but too late for Kole. I tell you this because of personal experience and loosing my little one and having my heart torn out. I also have a friend who had chiari in her yorkie and was sent to Auburn Teaching Hospital for diagnoses. She had the surgery and is alive and doing good eight years later. Even in some of the larger vet clinics they just dont see these conditions. At Auburn the first thing they do is an MRI because they arent available in most clinics. My experience is that the MRI was all that was required to diagnos the problems.
I have two with hydrocephalus and both were diagnosed there. Please get Cassie to a specialist for your sake and hers. Sorry this is so long but time is extremely important in a lot of cases.

[GeorgiesMomma]

Originally Posted by ladyjane

Oh, Heavens no!!! I would never go to a physical therapist or chiropractor for an AAI pup! She does need testing (most likely an MRI) done to see what is going on. Yes, AAI can be diagnosed by xray, but it is possible that other things are going on. Sammy, my little foster, is a perfect example of what can be there that you don't see.

I don't mean to be rude at all, but my concern is that your holistic vets have overlooked neurological deficits in your pup all of these years and that would really bother me. If they were unable to diagnose it, how do you think they will best know how to handle it now? Maybe they would suggest surgery....but maybe not....the ONLY way to know what is going on with Cassie is to get that testing done. It is expensive, yes, but better than playing guessing games and going to someone who could end up paralyzing or worst yet killing her. One wrong move of her neck and those things could very well happen. This is a very serious condition...don't let the fact that she has lived with it for five years lull you into believing it is not serious!!

Get to a neurologist and get a FIRM diagnosis. You do not even know for sure that she has hydrocephalus. I am going to try to get a video of Sammy in the next day or two to show you how he walks. People are stunned when they see the laundry list of things that are wrong with him....he still gets around but he is indeed a really messed up pup and there is no way I would allow someone to mess with his neck and try to strengthen his muscles...that wording is scary!!

Here is a link about Sammy and his problems:

http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/sic...ro-issues.html

Completely agree LJ Georgie had some chiropractic adjustments when we were taking him to the Vet and the thought of it now makes me so sad. She could have killed him with the pressure she was putting on his spine. AAI is not a condition that can be adjusted by a chiro our babies are missing a den in their top 2 vertebrae of their spine (atlas and axis). Cassie like Georgie has probably built up scar tissue to compensate for it over the years and might have caused it to move. I would take the route you are taking with the MRI. I wouldn't let anyone so much as pick her up unless it was the specialist or yourself.