Puppy fell from my arms about 6 ft on to wood floor!

[chachi]

Originally Posted by concretegurl

Bullying-is what the polite police here are doing. IMHO

Rudeness-is the never-ending opinions on the posting content and style of others ...their personality, style, etc.

You can't control eveyone around you accept it and more on.

Seriously shoo......just kidding!

I don't like what you have to say either-well on this thread topic/subject but we're both going to be here and say it, obviously if you didn't leave than the OP doesn't have any reason to not come back that's not self implied.

I had my tushie handed to me after my first post on here-I still feel at no fault of my own-- so I as others have termed it put my big girl panties on and started reading more (as in learning).

Exactly! I see it as bullying also. Trying to control what others say or their posting style. Its like they are the only ones allowed to have an opinion and their opinions are superior. Never once have you seen me quoting them and heard me tell someone I think you are encouraging irresponsible dog ownership when you dontell the OP that what they are doing is irresponsible after they post their candy coated posts and and yes I do think it. I let them post what they want and I post what I want.

[chachi]

Originally Posted by Rhetts_mama

Evidently what there is to learn is that we are only supposed to say the following (lest someone's panties get in a wad):

Excuse me, your puppy may be hurt. Could you pretty please with sugar on top take them in to the vet to make sure they aren't dying? No? Oh ok, thanks any way. No, no, really that's ok. We understand that you don't want to spend the time or money or drive that far. We TOTALLY get that you think the internet is a much better diagnostician than a vet that trained for many years. By the way, Kudos to you for breeding a 3 pound female to a 9 pound mixed breed dog you found on the side of the road. So sorry that one of the pups got stuck and you lost your little girl. I could have sworn that that youtube video would have walked you through the whelping process better. Better luck next time. I completely support breeding because you want to do it. Who needs breed standards when genetics roulette is so much fun?!

As the church lady would say. "Isn't that special?"

LOL You put it well. We are just supposed to keep our mouths shut and go along.

[Buster Brown]

Originally Posted by chachi

What was there to learn that a pup was dropped 6 ft. showed paralysis symptoms and the op didnt take him to the vet and the candy coated posts encouraging her to do so didnt motivate her to do it.

And neither did the confrontational posts so who lost out THE DOG. Bottom line the OP should have taken the dog to the Vet and I think all posters agree on that regardless of posting style.

[chachi]

Originally Posted by Buster Brown

And neither did the confrontational posts so who lost out THE DOG.

Yea but the next time something like that happens and it will I bet she puts a little more thought and dilligence behind it. It would be great if the dog could say please take me to the vet Im in pain I am hurting but they cant. So sorry I dont care if you like it or not when I see that someone is blatently ignoring getting their dog care when it needs it I am going to let them know to do it in a way that I think will get their attention

[concretegurl]

Originally Posted by chachi

Yea but the next time something like that happens and it will I bet she puts a little more thought and diligence behind it. It would be great if the dog could say please take me to the vet I'm in pain I am hurting but they cant. So sorry I don't care if you like it or not when I see that someone is blatantly ignoring getting their dog care when it needs it I am going to let them know to do it in a way that I think will get their attention

[cadycaines]

I am new here and I don’t post a lot, but I am on here most everyday reading and learning. I truly hope the OP’s puppy is ok.
To the posters that think some of the veteran members have responded rudely, I think that you should go to each of their profiles and look at some of their other posts. Most of them have given very friendly, helpful advice. They seem to be quite knowledgeable about the breed and that makes them very valuable to this board.
While I agree that they may seem harsh at times, I believe it comes from frustration and just a basic instinct to protect these little helpless babies. It is frustrating to give advice that seems to be a “no brainer” to most of us, but be ignored. Meanwhile a helpless, fragile baby is in danger!
Again, I hope that Chipper is ok and being well cared for. I also hope the OP is reading this and chooses to stick around, and benefit from what this forum has to offer.

[Buster Brown]

Originally Posted by chachi

Yea but the next time something like that happens and it will I bet she puts a little more thought and dilligence behind it. It would be great if the dog could say please take me to the vet Im in pain I am hurting but they cant. So sorry I dont care if you like it or not when I see that someone is blatently ignoring getting their dog care when it needs it I am going to let them know to do it in a way that I think will get their attention

Hopefully she will. As a side point I never thought any of your posts were confrontational and I have no problem with the blunt truth. I have felt your posts have always had the dogs best interest at heart and you spoke your mind. I absolutly agreed they should have seen a vet ASAP. I read through all the posts and saw none where the OP was told it is okay and don't bother taking the to the vet. I do think it is a disservice to the dogs to assume that the controversial posts are written by Trolls rather than someone who does not have common sense. Sadly common sense is not so common.

[chachi]

Originally Posted by Buster Brown

Hopefully she will. As a side point I never thought any of your posts were confrontational and I have no problem with the blunt truth. I have felt your posts have always had the dogs best interest at heart and you spoke your mind. I absolutly agreed they should have seen a vet ASAP. I read through all the posts and saw none where the OP was told it is okay and don't bother taking the to the vet. I do think it is a disservice to the dogs to assume that the controversial posts are written by Trolls rather than someone who does not have common sense. Sadly common sense is not so common.

Now I agree with you I take each poster on their own merit that they arent a troll they are here for help with their problem. If your here long enough your going to see alot of common threads and You cant assume they are a troll just because youve seen a similar threads. Honestly I think alot of times its not common sense they are lacking although sometimes it is but most of the time it is finances. They live day to day and cant afford a vet visit. With training threads sometimes you can have someone who hits with a newspaper because thats how there family did it and it always worked for them. I think its best that someone who has positive training down to a T give those type of people advice because sometimes they just need to see there is a better way.

[megansmomma]

Originally Posted by cadycaines

I am new here and I don’t post a lot, but I am on here most everyday reading and learning. I truly hope the OP’s puppy is ok.
To the posters that think some of the veteran members have responded rudely, I think that you should go to each of their profiles and look at some of their other posts. Most of them have given very friendly, helpful advice. They seem to be quite knowledgeable about the breed and that makes them very valuable to this board.
While I agree that they may seem harsh at times, I believe it comes from frustration and just a basic instinct to protect these little helpless babies. It is frustrating to give advice that seems to be a “no brainer” to most of us, but be ignored. Meanwhile a helpless, fragile baby is in danger!
Again, I hope that Chipper is ok and being well cared for. I also hope the OP is reading this and chooses to stick around, and benefit from what this forum has to offer.

I have just 3 little words
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Marry me~please

[chachi]

Another thing about a year or two ago Admin told us not to call people trolls. It had really got out of hand people would put pictures of trolls and things in posts thats another reason why you wont hear me call someone a troll. Although he hasnt said anything when people have used the term recently so I dont know. He went so far as to say he didnt want to see the word troll used anywhere in the forums

[imdll]

I have commented that some on this board behave like school children sometimes but as another poster pointed out in many schools bullying behaviour is not tolerated and children who participate in it come under disciplinary action. In that regard as far as the standard we hold ourselves to as adults, we may have some catching up to do, and yes as a civilized and democratic society we do have standards that we hold ourselves to. That is why we have hate laws and cyberbullying laws etc. We do not live in a society where anything goes and where we are not accountable for our behaviour and yes as members of society we have a right to expect a certain level of civility from one another. That doesn’t mean we have to be the same nor does it mean we have to agree. It’s in how those issues are handled. The internet does not give us the “right” to regress into a society of no holds barred free for all verbal communication.

There are some interesting catch phrases I see tossed around like "posting styles" and that some things are a matter of "opinion". Of course there are different personalities and “posting styles” and “opinions”. But let’s not use that as an excuse for aggressive or abusive behaviour. This has happened on several different occasions and sometimes it’s worse than others. Let’s also recognize that it is not uncommon for abusive people to minimize their behaviour, claiming to be misunderstood. That doesn't change whether or not the behaviour was indeed abusive.

Some have referred to the right to free speech and seem to believe you can say whatever you want because this is a public board. Not all speech is protected under the law and so no actually you can't just say whatever you want. That notion has gotten a number of people in hot water with the law because of what has now been termed"cyber bullying". “Cyberbullying” is a serious thing and I’m not saying that is what goes on here all the time but there have been times when the line has gotten very fuzzy and the aggression level has gotten rather high as people start feeding off one another and the object of the aggression or person gets trampled in the process and sometimes leaves YT. What benefit is then gained? Other than thumping one’s chest and claiming some sort of victory for being right, was any actual progress made or was just another person driven off that might have benefited from being here and learning from the others?

We get upset over how some people treat their dogs when they are training them. Is some of the aggressive behaviour on this board so very different? If you can’t justify it when you are training a dog how can you justify it when dealing with a person? Those who have been quick to be “blunt” or “aggressive” or “judgemental” or whatever other descriptor one chooses to use seem to be awfully quick to jump to their own defence if someone is equally blunt or aggressive or judgmental etc. about their behaviour. If you personally don’t appreciate that approach what makes you think someone else appreciates it from you?

If we want someone to listen to what we have to say, don’t we have to approach things in a way that helps them hear it? Yes sometimes being blunt can shake a person into reality but often there needs to be some level of trust between you before they are going to listen. Some people have been accused of “sugarcoating” things or supporting inappropriate behaviour by not speaking out strongly enough. Those who have spoken privately with members who have come under verbal attacks were able to do so because they did not come in the front door guns blazing.

Saying that some people shouldn’t be allowed to own dogs or that animal welfare laws should be changed etc. may be true statements in some settings but when referring to a specific OP in an open forum it is not something that is likely to assist in keeping he lines of communication open. Being hostile closes the door and if the welfare of the dog is genuinely our concern would it not be in the dog’s best interest to keep the lines of communication open? A less aggressive approach also makes the environment here at YT much more pleasant for everyone involved. Yes there is the ignore button but should we really have to use it, and should we be proud of ourselves if we suspect many people have hit the ignore button on us? Maybe it’s instead an indicator that we have some rough edges to polish? Does that mean we can’t vent or rant now and again and that all has to be flowers and rainbows? Of course not, but when we are dealing with a controversial situation that we hope to see end positively, or not be repeated, the way to work toward a positive end is to keep the door open so learning can continue and the person chooses to stay and learn from the variety of members here at YT.

So why do I care? What does this have to do with me? I could not, in good conscience, sit back and say nothing as different members have been verbally attacked and some driven away from YT by a vocal minority. I believe the members of YT have a great deal to offer. That’s why I chose to come here and why I hope some of the people who have had negative experiences will consider staying or coming back. YT is like it's own little society and as members we can choose what sort of environment we want YT to have. In the end it will depend on what the society of YT decides their values and standards are.

[chachi]

Originally Posted by imdll

I have commented that some on this board behave like school children sometimes but as another poster pointed out in many schools bullying behaviour is not tolerated and children who participate in it come under disciplinary action. In that regard as far as the standard we hold ourselves to as adults, we may have some catching up to do, and yes as a civilized and democratic society we do have standards that we hold ourselves to. That is why we have hate laws and cyberbullying laws etc. We do not live in a society where anything goes and where we are not accountable for our behaviour and yes as members of society we have a right to expect a certain level of civility from one another. That doesn’t mean we have to be the same nor does it mean we have to agree. It’s in how those issues are handled. The internet does not give us the “right” to regress into a society of no holds barred free for all verbal communication.

There are some interesting catch phrases I see tossed around like "posting styles" and that some things are a matter of "opinion". Of course there are different personalities and “posting styles” and “opinions”. But let’s not use that as an excuse for aggressive or abusive behaviour. This has happened on several different occasions and sometimes it’s worse than others. Let’s also recognize that it is not uncommon for abusive people to minimize their behaviour, claiming to be misunderstood. That doesn't change whether or not the behaviour was indeed abusive.

Some have referred to the right to free speech and seem to believe you can say whatever you want because this is a public board. Not all speech is protected under the law and so no actually you can't just say whatever you want. That notion has gotten a number of people in hot water with the law because of what has now been termed"cyber bullying". “Cyberbullying” is a serious thing and I’m not saying that is what goes on here all the time but there have been times when the line has gotten very fuzzy and the aggression level has gotten rather high as people start feeding off one another and the object of the aggression or person gets trampled in the process and sometimes leaves YT. What benefit is then gained? Other than thumping one’s chest and claiming some sort of victory for being right, was any actual progress made or was just another person driven off that might have benefited from being here and learning from the others?

We get upset over how some people treat their dogs when they are training them. Is some of the aggressive behaviour on this board so very different? If you can’t justify it when you are training a dog how can you justify it when dealing with a person? Those who have been quick to be “blunt” or “aggressive” or “judgemental” or whatever other descriptor one chooses to use seem to be awfully quick to jump to their own defence if someone is equally blunt or aggressive or judgmental etc. about their behaviour. If you personally don’t appreciate that approach what makes you think someone else appreciates it from you?

If we want someone to listen to what we have to say, don’t we have to approach things in a way that helps them hear it? Yes sometimes being blunt can shake a person into reality but often there needs to be some level of trust between you before they are going to listen. Some people have been accused of “sugarcoating” things or supporting inappropriate behaviour by not speaking out strongly enough. Those who have spoken privately with members who have come under verbal attacks were able to do so because they did not come in the front door guns blazing.

Saying that some people shouldn’t be allowed to own dogs or that animal welfare laws should be changed etc. may be true statements in some settings but when referring to a specific OP in an open forum it is not something that is likely to assist in keeping he lines of communication open. Being hostile closes the door and if the welfare of the dog is genuinely our concern would it not be in the dog’s best interest to keep the lines of communication open? A less aggressive approach also makes the environment here at YT much more pleasant for everyone involved. Yes there is the ignore button but should we really have to use it, and should we be proud of ourselves if we suspect many people have hit the ignore button on us? Maybe it’s instead an indicator that we have some rough edges to polish? Does that mean we can’t vent or rant now and again and that all has to be flowers and rainbows? Of course not, but when we are dealing with a controversial situation that we hope to see end positively, or not be repeated, the way to work toward a positive end is to keep the door open so learning can continue and the person chooses to stay and learn from the variety of members here at YT.

So why do I care? What does this have to do with me? I could not, in good conscience, sit back and say nothing as different members have been verbally attacked and some driven away from YT by a vocal minority. I believe the members of YT have a great deal to offer. That’s why I chose to come here and why I hope some of the people who have had negative experiences will consider staying or coming back. YT is like it's own little society and as members we can choose what sort of environment we want YT to have. In the end it will depend on what the society of YT decides their values and standards are.

If they were attacked then we would have been suspended under YT rules. Just because you tell someone the truth that they are not properly caring for their dog by not taking it to the vet is not attacking. Sorry we do have a right to tell the truth even when it isnt butterflies and rainbows. It just seems like this forum has an admin and mods to determine if someones post is out of line

[chachi]

Attacking. cyber bullying it is really getting twisted and turned now. I liked Rhetts moms response on what is being expected of us.

[Buster Brown]

Originally Posted by chachi

Another thing about a year or two ago Admin told us not to call people trolls. It had really got out of hand people would put pictures of trolls and things in posts thats another reason why you wont hear me call someone a troll. Although he hasnt said anything when people have used the term recently so I dont know. He went so far as to say he didnt want to see the word troll used anywhere in the forums

Thanks for the heads up I was unaware of this.

[imdll]

Those that are upset about being asked to consider a little softer approach seem pretty irritated and yet the way they have been spoken to isn't nearly as harsh or blunt as what some people around here have done to others. Heck I've pretty much "sugar coated" what could be said and yet some folks don't seem hardly receptive at all. I haven't said that anyone here is a horrible parent or that their dog will probably die or that they shouldn't be allowed to own animals etc. . . Could it be that people have a hard time being asked to change what they are doing even if it's done in a nice way? How do you suppose some OPs feel when they experience a full onslaught of "blunt truth" not "sugar coated" in the least? Or does that matter?

The admins shouldn't have to say something in order for people to be civil and I'm not just referring to this particular thread and I'm not the only one who has noticed these repeat performances and the deffiance that ensues when those involved are asked by others to tone it down a little. The admins by the way actually did step in because of a post on this thread that crossed the line and I think it's sad they should ever have to worry about such things.

Those who are busy feeling justified, go ahead and continue to be as blunt as you please, and rejoice in your rightness as long as the admins don't step in. I wasn't aware that was really the point, but good to know. I mistakenly thought the point was to help dogs and their owners which is kind of tough to do if the owner stops listening or stops coming here.

To me it kind of comes down to actions and results. If the result of some people's actions by being overly blunt etc. is that people leave YT because they are offended and our desire is to help dogs and owners then the only thing we can try to change on our end is how the people are being treated. It would seem logical to try and treat people better so they stick around and learn, thus benifiting the dogs we say we are concerned about. . . .unless of course driving people away is the desired result. In which case keep on keeping on.

Well ladies it's been real and it's been fun but I can't say it's been real fun. Ta ta