Jackson's not feeling well. :(

[Maximo]

Originally Posted by Ellie May

I was thinking about that, but is it rx? I guess if the vet would write for it...

If I had a completely healthy pup except for pancreas issues and I wanted to feed kibble, this one would be at the top of my list bc I know she likes it in a lot of cases.

This is what I saw at my vet's office, tagged and waiting for patient pick up.

[Britster]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

I know this will be hard for you, but so much of what you read on the web is just "part" of the information. Nutrition is much more complex than what many websites have you believe. How separate foods work together is such a large part of the equation that very few amateur nutritionists address. Home cooking is really a costly and time consuming adventure, and is often necessary if there are multiple problems, allergies along with pancreatitis for example.

If you choose a canine nutritionist, please choose one who has actual credentials. Look at this website that tells the difference between a dietitian and a nutritionist, and you will see ANYONE can call themselves a canine nutritionist. Dietitian vs. Nutritionist

Oh, I know. I definitely will be listening to my vet in his advice! I'm considering the homecooking... but not sure if it's entirely worth it. My mom mentioned she would be willing to help me out (like I said, I hardly cook for myself )

Thank you for the link. I will be doing a lot of research before deciding on something such as homecooking. It's just a thought right now at this point!

Originally Posted by 107barney

Home cooking is indeed very expensive and time consuming. If you choose to home cook for your dog, please make sure that a board certified vet nutritionist guarantees that the diet is balanced. You can check the American College of Veterinary Nutrition website for info at American College of Veterinary Nutrition

Thanks for the link!! Yes I would of course make sure it is balanced by a board certified vet before doing such. Thanks for all your help!

I know you homecook, would you say you think it is indeed worth it? Or if you had a dog like Jackson, who is pretty healthy thus far except for this big issue now, lol... would you just say it's easier to stick to kibble?

Originally Posted by Ellie May

I don't think you'll find a veterinary nutritionist close by. Most of us do phone consults. The only ones I would consider are DVM, PhD, and they really should be DACVN.

I'm not sure why he thinks Iams/Euk/SD in the regular version would be any better than natural diets, but I would bet it has something to do with him not having time to look into all the natural stuff and it's easier to stick with these ones. All the natural stuff can go terribly wrong very quickly. I'm sure you can find a vet that will help you choose a more "natural" food to feed, but it would probably be much easier for you if you just go with what this vet is saying. Homecooking is not a bad idea. Just requires dedication and is far from necessary for him right now.

I just picked up some SD Nature's Best for the new pup. I like this food quite a bit. No idea if it would work for Jackson (I'm really into rx diets for pancreas issues or diets formulated by veterinary nutritionists), but you would be fulfilling the vet's requirement of choosing among certain brands and it would be closer to what you are used to feeding.

Oh, okay. I didn't realize you couldn't really find them locally. Interesting. This is all new territory to me.

I wouldn't be totally against just keeping him on the E/N for a while. But he made it sound like it wouldn't be necessary forever so I just feel like if he's telling me to put him on IAMS or something, I'd rather find a happy medium that we can agree on. But I'll also hear his thoughts on keeping him on the RX food. I'm supposed to be bringing him back in on Thursday to re-do bloodwork and check his levels.

I have time to research and check out food. I'll look into Natures Best and the others you mentioned.

I am certainly taking the vets advice right now no matter what.

[ladyjane]

My vet did a consult with the vet nutritionist at Texas A&M...it would not have cost anything except that I needed a home cooked diet because there was no diet that was good for a pup with pancreatitis and renal issues. And, even then, the cost was only $150 and I was given two recipes.

Perhaps your vet can just do a consult with a vet nutritionist for you so that you can choose a food that you might be more comfortable with.

[Princess10]

I'm glad Jackson is home & seems to be feeling better.

Princess is strictly on Rx kibble now & has adjusted very well to no people food in this short 2 weeks. I think you'll be very proud of Jackson for quickly adjusting as well. I bet it hurt me more to tell her no than it hurt her. But I'd say that's a small price to pay.

[kjc]

Yay! So good to hear Jackson is now home! Sorry about your house issues during the storm.

[Britster]

Jackson just wanted to say hi to everyone.... he's doing well and very happy to be back in mommy's bed. Yes, he's also in a dog bed ON the bed... he's getting spoiled tonight.

[Britster]

I wonder how the vet would feel about one of these formulas.

Natural Balance Reduced Calorie:
Dick Van Patten's Natural Balance Original Ultra Reduced Calorie Formula for Dogs
Brown Rice, Chicken, Chicken Meal, Potato Fiber, Rice Bran, Tomato Pomace, Beet Pulp, Pearled Barley, Salmon Meal, Chicken Fat (preserved with natural mixed tocopherols), Lamb Meal, Oatmeal, Natural Flavor, Carrots, Potatoes, Duck, Brewers Dried Yeast, Sodium Chloride, Potassium Chloride, Salmon Oil, Whole Ground Flaxseed, Choline Chloride, Taurine, Natural Mixed Tocopherols, Spinach, Parsley Flakes, Cranberries, L-Lysine, L-Carnitine, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Dried Kelp, Vitamin E Supplement, Iron Proteinate, Zinc Proteinate, Copper Proteinate, Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Sulfate, Copper Sulfate, Potassium Iodide, Thiamine Mononitrate (Vitamin B-1), Manganese Proteinate, Manganous Oxide, Ascorbic Acid, Vitamin A Supplement, Biotin, Niacin, Calcium Pantothenate, Manganese Sulfate, Sodium Selenite, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (Vitamin B-6), Vitamin B-12 Supplement, Riboflavin (Vitamin B-2), Vitamin D-3 Supplement, Folic Acid.

Crude Protein 18.0% minimum Crude Fat 8.0% minimum Crude Fiber 8.0% maximum Moisture 10.0% maximum Omega-3 Fatty Acids 0.3% minimum Omega-6 Fatty Acids 1.7% minimum
Or this...
Dick Van Patten's Natural Balance L.I.D. Limted Ingredient Diets Sweet Potato & Fish Formula

Sweet Potatoes, Bison, Potato Protein, Pea Protein, Canola Oil (preserved with natural mixed tocopherols), Dicalcium Phosphate, Potato Fiber, Natural Flavor, Calcium Carbonate, Sodium Chloride, Salmon Oil (a source of DHA), Choline Chloride, Taurine, Natural Mixed Tocopherols, Vitamin E Supplement, Iron Proteinate, Zinc Proteinate, Copper Proteinate, Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Sulfate, Copper Sulfate, Potassium Iodide, Thiamine Mononitrate (Vitamin B-1), Manganese Proteinate, Manganous Oxide, Ascorbic Acid, Vitamin A Supplement, Biotin, Niacin, Calcium Pantothenate, Manganese Sulfate, Sodium Selenite, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (Vitamin B-6), Vitamin B-12 Supplement, Riboflavin (Vitamin B-2), Vitamin D-3 Supplement, Folic Acid.

Crude Protein 20.0% minimum Crude Fat 10.0% minimum Crude Fiber 4.0% maximum Moisture 10.0% maximum Calcium 1.0% minimum Phosphorus 0.8% minimum Omega-3 Fatty Acids 0.3% minimum Docosahexaenoic Acid (DHA) 0.01% minimum Omega-6 Fatty Acids 3.0% minimum

Is it worth asking about this week... or should I just wait it out?

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by Britster

Jackson just wanted to say hi to everyone.... he's doing well and very happy to be back in mommy's bed. Yes, he's also in a dog bed ON the bed... he's getting spoiled tonight.

Awww poor guy...he looks so worn out. Typical after being so sick. I know he is happy to be home!

[Ellie May]

I'd be making the decision about what to switch to asap because when this bag of food is gone, you'll need to know. Actually, you'll need to switch very slowly if you decide to do that, so you'll want to know what you are switching to in time.

I somehow doubt this vet will agree to NB. He did say no natural foods, and NB is definitely in that category, so I'd pick one from the ones he talked about unless you and him agree immediately to one of you talking to a veterinary nutritionist.

There is no huge rush though. If you don't choose quickly, he can just stay on the rx for awhile.

[RileyDC]

Originally Posted by Britster

Jackson just wanted to say hi to everyone.... he's doing well and very happy to be back in mommy's bed. Yes, he's also in a dog bed ON the bed... he's getting spoiled tonight.

Ohhhhh Hello Sweetheart!!!!
Glad you are back home with Mommy!
You gave us all a Scare!!
Hugs & Belly Rubs from Riley & Theresa.... Sleep tight, tonight!

[CouversMom]

I'm so glad to hear that Jackson is finally home!! I bet he is a happy camper

I hope you are able to figure out a good food for him. We all know he's in good hands with you Brittany.

[Britster]

Originally Posted by Ellie May

I'd be making the decision about what to switch to asap because when this bag of food is gone, you'll need to know. Actually, you'll need to switch very slowly if you decide to do that, so you'll want to know what you are switching to in time.

I somehow doubt this vet will agree to NB. He did say no natural foods, and NB is definitely in that category, so I'd pick one from the ones he talked about unless you and him agree immediately to one of you talking to a veterinary nutritionist.

There is no huge rush though. If you don't choose quickly, he can just stay on the rx for awhile.

Yeah, definitely. I have no qualms about staying on the RX food for a while if needed.

He basically gave me the quick shpeel about allergies to food, particularly grain, are really low, around 2-3% or something. Which I did know. I didn't argue w/ him at all because I agree with him but I still have a belief that dogs don't need grains. It wasn't about me thinking he was allergic. But I no longer have a totally "healthy" dog either so I am totally willing to do whatever is best for him.

I am curious what these types of diets are considered (RX, SD, Iams, etc) if they aren't "natural". I mean, that word is thrown around a lot, lol, but I was always brought up that natural is better in general. So is the RX diet considered... "non-natural" LOL? I just found that funny.

I think you are right in that he recommended what he simply knows and is comfortable with and didn't want me going out and buying him a bag of Orijen or something. I am sure he sees a lot of idiots who go out and buy the highest protein/fat food there is and overfeed their dog or something and they end up in the hospital with him. So maybe if I show him the ingredients to NB, he will tell me his thoughts. Should I print out a page for our visit on Thursday... I don't ever wanna come across as "know-it-all" or too snobby or anything, like I am not listening to his advice. Just want to know his thoughts. But I am not good with confrontation, either, lol and am very quick to say "okay" and just do what they say.

[DvlshAngel985]

I'm so glad Jackson is back where he belongs. I'm sure you'll find the perfect diet for him. Good luck.

[Ellie May]

I think if you can't print something out and show it to your vet, then you are restricted in being an advocate for your dog. So yes, if you believe strongly that NB is better than what your vet is recommending in this case, then at least bring it up. I'm not sure he'd want to see a list of ingredients, but you could memorize the protein, fat, and fiber % or whatever to have something to talk about with him.

Natural/holistic/superpremium/human grade - all one in the same. Marketing terms on the newer foods. I wouldn't say things like SD are any less natural, but some use the term just to group all of the newer foods together instead of saying superpremium (because not everybody believes the companies that are taking off now are really premium).

It is very possible that this vet has seen some issues with "natural" foods and prefers to avoid them. You might ask how his other pancreatitis patients are doing on the more mainstream foods (SD, Iams).

[Britster]

Originally Posted by Ellie May

I think if you can't print something out and show it to your vet, then you are restricted in being an advocate for your dog. So yes, if you believe strongly that NB is better than what your vet is recommending in this case, then at least bring it up. I'm not sure he'd want to see a list of ingredients, but you could memorize the protein, fat, and fiber % or whatever to have something to talk about with him.

Natural/holistic/superpremium/human grade - all one in the same. Marketing terms on the newer foods. I wouldn't say things like SD are any less natural, but some use the term just to group all of the newer foods together instead of saying superpremium (because not everybody believes the companies that are taking off now are really premium).

It is very possible that this vet has seen some issues with "natural" foods and prefers to avoid them. You might ask how his other pancreatitis patients are doing on the more mainstream foods (SD, Iams).

Yes, I agree with you. I definitely am his advocate and need to learn to speak up when necessary!

I briefly told him on the phone today that the TOTW was 25% protein and 15% fat and he said "Well, it's not the fat percentage, all the time but the ingredients." So that's what leads me to believe maybe I should show him.

I agree with you. I think that is what he meant by "natural foods". It just sort of amused me because I'm thinking, so this RX food is unnatural? LOL. Just being a dork. I didn't say that to him!

Here is a comparision:
Purina E/N:
Brewers rice, corn gluten meal, whole grain corn, chicken meal, animal fat preserved with mixedtocopherols (form of Vitamin E), coconut oil, calcium carbonate, calcium phosphate, animal digest, potassium chloride, L-Lysine monohydrochloride, sodium bicarbonate, salt, soybean oil, fish oil, zinc proteinate, choline chloride, Vitamin E supplement, dried colostrum, L-ascorbyl-2-polyphosphate (source of Vitamin C), manganese proteinate, ferrous sulfate, niacin, copper proteinate, Vitamin A supplement, calcium pantothenate, thiamine mononitrate, riboflavin supplement, Vitamin B-12 supplement, pyridoxine hydrochloride, garlic oil, folic acid, Vitamin D-3 supplement, calcium iodate, biotin, menadione sodium bisulfite complex (source of Vitamin K activity), sodium selenite.

Crude Protein (Min) 23.0% Crude Fat (Min) 10.5%

NB Bison (Lean Meat) and Potato:
Sweet Potatoes, Bison, Potato Protein, Pea Protein, Canola Oil (preserved with natural mixed tocopherols), Dicalcium Phosphate, Potato Fiber, Natural Flavor, Calcium Carbonate, Sodium Chloride, Salmon Oil (a source of DHA), Choline Chloride, Taurine, Natural Mixed Tocopherols, Vitamin E Supplement, Iron Proteinate, Zinc Proteinate, Copper Proteinate, Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Sulfate, Copper Sulfate, Potassium Iodide, Thiamine Mononitrate (Vitamin B-1), Manganese Proteinate, Manganous Oxide, Ascorbic Acid, Vitamin A Supplement, Biotin, Niacin, Calcium Pantothenate, Manganese Sulfate, Sodium Selenite, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (Vitamin B-6), Vitamin B-12 Supplement, Riboflavin (Vitamin B-2), Vitamin D-3 Supplement, Folic Acid.

Crude Protein 20.0% minimum Crude Fat 10.0%


It actually doesn't look that different to me, it just eliminates the corn and rice mainly.