Not getting better, should I stop the meds? Please advice

[kionini]

for your suggestions, advice and help I'll take all in consideration and see what will work best for my fur-kids. Like human children, my two are different even from each other. Nini can handle a lot of foods and meds better than Nicky, but being so close to each other, one does what the other does I can't give one a bully-stick and not the other and feeding them different foods...I see it as difficult

But, I'll keep the goal in mind (healthy pups) and I'll figure it out.

I'll have to go into older posts and learn how to read labels I didn't think it was going to be so crucial for me to know exactly what everything means. But now it's looking like that.

[kionini]

Originally Posted by ladyjane

First off, there is nothing wrong with Hill's Science Diet! They spend so much money on research and their prescription foods do work. I have used them over the years for many different conditions.

As for bully sticks, I personally will not use them. You might want to look at the following thread:

http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/sic...-diarrhea.html

Oh, my I'll read that link with a bit more care. Thanks.

About the i/d, have you use it long term? Like every day for x amount of weeks?

One of the nurses said, "You do not want to keep them on Prescription Diet i/d for ever." I had asked how many days I should use it.
When my girl, Nini got sick (she was about 6 months at that time), the vet prescribed this type of i/d wet food. But he instructed us to use it ONLY until we got her used to a full meal again (a couple of days). And then, give only a teaspoon at every meal time. He instructed us not to over feed on this food

Now, this i/d is not the same as the one Nini had back then (don't know if this is the difference). Nini's i/d was bland and it would crumble in you hands as it was very dry. It was a pale color and little odor. We didn't keep the can for a couple of days (as we do now) so I don't know if the smell was that bad a couple of days later after opening it and storing in the fridge.

This new one (says "Improved Texture") is as soft and mushy as a regular can food, colorful and the second day it smells pretty bad. Also, I don't trust it for a few reasons, but mostly because since Nini was vomiting and had diahrrea on Wedsday, we decided to give her just the i/d until we spoke with the vet the next day.

I think the bully-stick was the culprit in her case. She had been eating the Orijin kibble alone, but stole Nicky's bully-stick and ate the entire thing by herself .

Nicky, being a monkey-see, monkey-do baby wanted only the i/d as well. So we gave it to him...no harm right? Well, next morning he had diarrhea where the day before his potty had been nice and firm.

So, I narrowed it down to the bully-stick, the i/d and the Orijin. The bully -stick has been bad for them when they've had too much of it, like a 6" one. That left me with Orijin and the i/d. Out of the two, the i/d is the newest.

So, I don't know what to think

[ladyjane]

I have not used it long term...only as prescribed by the vet following pancreatitis or another GI upset. I have never had it cause issues....and I have had many pups use it over the years since I also have fosters.

For now, until you figure out what is causing this, I would stick with the I/D. Once they are feeling better, you can add other foods and see what happens.

Perhaps your pups just have some kind of a virus or something?

But....yes, I would definitely watch the use of bully sticks. Way too many people have had problems with them for my comfort.

[kionini]

Originally Posted by ladyjane

Not saying it is not possible, but I think it would be highly unlikely that two pups in the same home had pancreatitis at the same time. I would be highly suspect of something in their environment causing these issues......and I would not suspect the I/D!

The environment? Food for thought. I'll ask the vet tomorrow. I hope not, I can't move yet

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by kionini

The environment? Food for thought. I'll ask the vet tomorrow. I hope not, I can't move yet

I don't mean move! Just that maybe the caught something from another pup? Or...did they eat a plant?...or is it the bully sticks? What I meant is that I don't know that it is something like pancreatitis since they both are ill. Just a thought.

[kionini]

Originally Posted by ladyjane

I have not used it long term...only as prescribed by the vet following pancreatitis or another GI upset. I have never had it cause issues....and I have had many pups use it over the years since I also have fosters.

For now, until you figure out what is causing this, I would stick with the I/D. Once they are feeling better, you can add other foods and see what happens.

Perhaps your pups just have some kind of a virus or something?

But....yes, I would definitely watch the use of bully sticks. Way too many people have had problems with them for my comfort.

Maybe it's the length of time. Like the nurse said, "not for ever" and it's been about a month if not more (that's forever, I think).

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by kionini

Maybe it's the length of time. Like the nurse said, "not for ever" and it's been about a month if not more (that's forever, I think).

But.....you were still giving other things during that time? If so, then you have not given it a fair trial.
I do think that is a very long time for pups to be ill.

[kionini]

Originally Posted by ladyjane

I don't mean move! Just that maybe the caught something from another pup? Or...did they eat a plant?...or is it the bully sticks? What I meant is that I don't know that it is something like pancreatitis since they both are ill. Just a thought.

LOL, silly me I was already blaming the carpet and I sent HB to change the air filters. Not the plants in the house, but now that you mentioned it, the grass is starting to come back in the yard and they're very friendly with other dogs . Bully sticks, they've been having since they were babies.

Originally Posted by ladyjane

But.....you were still giving other things during that time? If so, then you have not given it a fair trial.
I do think that is a very long time for pups to be ill.

Nicky got Pancrititis in late Jan or early Feb. (I don't have the exact date offhand) With that scare, we cut down on everything and stopped some altogether. To be on the safe side and because the vet said it was ok, we've been buying and feeding the i/d with Orijin, since I thought it was the Evanger's can food that was making him sick.

Nini was fine until last Wednesday and so was Nicky until Thursday
I think that the i/d is okay for a few days, but not for as long as I have been giving it


Thanks for helping me brainstorm here to find what is it

[Ellie May]

Yes, if these are adult dogs the I/D is fine. Some do use it for life.

If they both are sick, then it is very unlikely pancreatitis, but perhaps with Nicky it agitated the pancreas and caused a flare up (which the vet can test for). Pancreatitis patients should not get bully sticks or the like. Risking setting off another episode could end up being fatal. Low fat foods and not much changing the diet for life is usually the recommendation. You never know what could set it off.

How high if Orijen in fat? My guess is 20+%? That would be too high.

[Breezeaway]

Its probably a combination of bad bullies, salmon oil and high fat/high protein dog food all mixed into one. It will take a few days for them to get better. Keep their diet low in fat (5%) and only moderately high in protein (18-20%).

[kionini]

Originally Posted by Ellie May

Yes, if these are adult dogs the I/D is fine. Some do use it for life.

If they both are sick, then it is very unlikely pancreatitis, but perhaps with Nicky it agitated the pancreas and caused a flare up (which the vet can test for). Pancreatitis patients should not get bully sticks or the like. Risking setting off another episode could end up being fatal. Low fat foods and not much changing the diet for life is usually the recommendation. You never know what could set it off.

How high if Orijen in fat? My guess is 20+%? That would be too high.

If I'm understanding how to read labels correctly, then yes, Orijen is 38% crude protein and 17% crude fat
No bully-sticks for life what will I do without them He'll destroy all his toys and Nini's in protest, I know it

Originally Posted by Breezeaway

Its probably a combination of bad bullies, salmon oil and high fat/high protein dog food all mixed into one. It will take a few days for them to get better. Keep their diet low in fat (5%) and only moderately high in protein (18-20%).

It was probably the combination I was giving them all of that. I'll keep those percentages in mind while looking into the ingredients. Thanks

[kionini]

my babies are looking better Nicky's not whimpering and is even playing rough with Nini. We decided to postpone the vet visit until tomorrow, since the vet said it's not an emergency and we'll be done with one of the meds prescribed (the other one he said to stop), plus we need time to talk
I'll keep you posted

[kionini]

I took them to the vet on Friday and he said that their blood work came back okay. The vet isn't sure what happened exactly, but he doesn't think it was Nicky's Pancritis or that Nini had the same thing. He made a note about my babies being sensitive to the Amoxicillin, but said that it was okay to have a bottle of Metronidazole on hand just in case they have another episode of diarrhea

I'm slowly changing their diet from Orijin to Blue Basics, Limited Ingredients. We also discussed the bully-sticks and the vet thinks is okay to let them have it as he doesn't think that was the problem and it's really the only treat they have. ( until I test others that won't harm them).

I'm as confused as I was that Wednesday that they first got sick. I don't know exactly what brought it on or how to avoid it again. We also discussed raw diet and home cooking, so confusing

I had tried to introduce them to raw a few times in the past (behind hb's back), Nini liked it, but Nicky was disgusted. The goal at the moment is to get them back to 100% health and find a canine nutritionist for guidance.

I got in touch with a nutritionist from one of the links that one of you gave me, but she's far away and I'm wondering how effective that could be I'm thinking to give it a try anyway if nothing else works. I'll keep researching in the mean time.

Right now I'm happy because they're off the drugs and doing fine. They are playing, barking, running like maniacs and sun-bathing where ever they find a spot with the sun shinning through. So, it's a good day

Thank you all for all the help and guidance

[Maximo]

Glad to hear your pups are doing well and that they had good vet visits, good results. Hope you can find the right diet to keep them healthy and happy.