|
Welcome to the YorkieTalk.com Forums Community - the community for Yorkshire Terriers. You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. You will be able to chat with over 35,000 YorkieTalk members, read over 2,000,000 posted discussions, and view more than 15,000 Yorkie photos in the YorkieTalk Photo Gallery after you register. We would love to have you as a member! Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today! If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please click here to contact us. |
|
| LinkBack | Thread Tools |
08-04-2010, 05:52 PM | #1 |
YorkieTalk Newbie! Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Delaware, USA
Posts: 8
| Bile Acids help! Hi guys, I am a vet tech and also an owner/breeder of papillons (I know, not a yorkie! lol) who I show in conformation. I've been breeding for 3 1/2 years and have produced some really nice paps! (Actually I have a top 5 pap and top 20 pap out now, and best in specialty show winning!) Anyway, I have a little 16 week old puppy that dropped blood sugar on me when I knew she shouldn't have. (I knew she ate dinner well and when she looked a little sluggish I even dosed her with karo.) I raced her into our hospital and her BG was only 34, even after karo. We grew suspicious of why this happened. She ate dinner, had karo and STILL had low blood sugar. Today I did a bile acids test on her because her TP and albumin levels were on the lower end for her CBC Profile BW. Her ALT and creatinine values were normal. She is also not anemic. Bile acids results: Pre- 2.1 Post- 19.3 According to our lab, over 14.9 post is abnormal. What I've been finding online is that over 25 is abnormal. Otherwise she is a healthy dog, active, playful, doesn't "look" like a shunt dog. She has no other problems than this one time of dropping sugar. I'm taking her off the high protein food she is on. (She's on Purina ProPlan Puppy, toy breed formula) It has 31% and I realize this may be too high. As soon as I thought liver shunt, I thought yorkie people can help me! They know best! lol So, I'm here for advice and your personal thoughts on the matter. I'm already going to spay mom. This puppy will be spayed and kept with me as a companion (as well as mom!) I'm just very sad as health is VERY important to me as a breeder. Thanks in advance! |
Welcome Guest! | |
08-04-2010, 06:03 PM | #2 |
Ringo (1) and Lucy too! Donating Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: On the Edge of Glory
Posts: 3,447
| Those don't sound like terrible numbers. Do you do your own testing or do you send away?
__________________ Mommy to Lucy, Ringo, and Matthew |
08-04-2010, 06:11 PM | #3 |
YorkieTalk Newbie! Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Delaware, USA
Posts: 8
| We send to a lab (Idexx). I've thought about testing her in a few weeks at another lab... not sure what to do. |
08-04-2010, 06:17 PM | #4 |
Wee Winston Wiggles Donating Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Kewanee, Illinois
Posts: 9,666
| Hope your little one is alright...I really do. But I'm curious to see what others say about this.
__________________ As Ever, Kathy Intruducing Bentley Winston and Spencer: RIP My Sweet Angels |
08-04-2010, 06:19 PM | #5 |
Ringo (1) and Lucy too! Donating Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: On the Edge of Glory
Posts: 3,447
| Unless she is having symptoms; that may be a good choice. Re-test in 30 days and see what the numbers are; they may be fine. Monitor her protein, as you are already beginning to to, and she may have a normal test in 30 days. I would take her off a super high protein food, though as you already mentioned. If the numbers stay slightly elevated ~ you can go from there. It doesn't necessarily have to be a shunt; possibly MVD and possibly something you can manage with diet and supplements. I'm not sure how this impacts you as a breeder since I'm just a pet owner; I'm sure it's news no breeder wants to hear. I'll let one of the breeders respond to this part; but just from my experience with a 'liver challenged' pup; those numbers did not sound completely alarming to my untrained ear! Hang in there and others will respond as well.
__________________ Mommy to Lucy, Ringo, and Matthew |
08-04-2010, 06:29 PM | #6 |
YorkieTalk Newbie! Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Delaware, USA
Posts: 8
| Thanks guys! You're amazing I knew I picked the right place. lol I am very eager to hear what others have to say. Of course this is a big blow to my breeding program!! But, like you said, we'll stop the high protein and retest in a few weeks. I know LD works for our adult clients... but how is LD with a puppy? Anyone had experience with that? |
08-04-2010, 06:37 PM | #7 |
Donating YT 2000 Club Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: North Carolina
Posts: 8,317
| According to Dr. Sharon Center, the developer of the bile acids test, 25 is the cut off. The BAT results you posted are definitely within the normal range. How the blood is collected is very important for accurate results. PSVA and MVD Research Summary http://www.ytca.org/health_CenterQue...xpress2010.pdf |
08-04-2010, 07:04 PM | #8 | |
Ringo (1) and Lucy too! Donating Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: On the Edge of Glory
Posts: 3,447
| Quote:
Now whether that's right or wrong, who knows? But at that time, she wasn't really having many symptoms. I've since instituted some further protein restriction to where her breakfast is NB Vegetarian - but she is almost a year old now. She still gets Wellness Limited for dinner - mixed with some canned chicken because she is able to tolerate chicken (as opposed to beef, liver, lamb . . .)
__________________ Mommy to Lucy, Ringo, and Matthew | |
08-04-2010, 07:04 PM | #9 |
Donating Senior Yorkie Talker | Some of Natural Balance's food ( the L.I.D formulas) have 20% protien, 10% fat,...it's an all stages food for dogs and puppy... Their Websire show all the different kinds they have...
__________________ My Sweet Little Izzy Yup, She's stolen my heart!! |
08-04-2010, 07:20 PM | #10 |
YorkieTalk Newbie! Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Delaware, USA
Posts: 8
| Very helpful information, thank you!! I will retest her following those guidelines in a few weeks. I will also lower her protein, but not too low as she's just a baby. (Makes sense to me!) Looking forward to more responses! I'm learning a lot, thank you! |
08-04-2010, 07:43 PM | #11 |
Donating YT 2000 Club Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: North Carolina
Posts: 8,317
| If you are dealing with liver disease, it's the type of protein, not the percentage that is the problem. Animal proteins from red meat produce ammonia which an unhealthy liver cannot process properly. Liver | B-Naturals.Com Newsletter My Lady has liver disease from years of phenobarbital from seizures. I homecook for her now, a special recipe for liver compromised dogs. The protein is about 24%, but the protein is from whitefish, cottage cheese and eggs. I would not put a dog, especially a puppy, on a low protein diet without consulting with your vet. Too little protein can actually damage the liver. You have to calculate protein based upon dry matter to get an accurate reading, not just what is written on the bag of kibble. Dry Matter Basis… The Only Reliable Way to Compare Dog Foods I personally would not try to adjust diet on my own without consulting my vet after further testing is done. You may want to consult an internal specialist if your regular vet is stumped. IMO, you need a diagnosis first, then modify her diet if necessary. |
08-05-2010, 02:26 AM | #12 |
I♥PeekTinkySaph&Finny Donating Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Baltimore, Maryland
Posts: 18,865
| Did your vet do a urinalysis on the pup? Sometimes can be helpful figuring where things are going... UTIs are common in LS dogs. Don't know much about Paps (other than they're beautiful!) but Liver Shunt is not genetic (wd) in Yorkies. It cannot be bred out by selective breeding. Two LS Yorkies were bred and produced normal pups. Many normal Yorkies have been bred that produce LS pups. I'd research more before spaying.
__________________ Kat Chloe Lizzy PeekABooTinkerbell SapphireInfinity |
08-05-2010, 06:34 AM | #13 |
T. Bumpkins & Co. Donating YT Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: New England
Posts: 9,816
| sorry about that post I did not mean to post my Daisy's nose thread here. Sorry about that!! I will ask for the mod to remove it
__________________ Washable Doggie Pee Pads (Save 10% Enter YTSAVE10 at checkout) Cathy, Teddy, Winston and Baby Clyde...RIP angels Barney and Daisy |
08-06-2010, 06:15 AM | #14 |
And Rylee Finnegan Donating Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Metro Detroit, MI
Posts: 17,928
| Welcome to YT. You may want to retest in a few weeks. A post of less than 20 really doesn't indicate a problem. It could, but doubtful. I'd personally retest, but be ready to look for other causes.
__________________ Crystal, Ellie May (RIP), Rylee Finnegan, and Gracie Boo🐶 |
08-08-2010, 06:32 PM | #15 |
YorkieTalk Newbie! Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Delaware, USA
Posts: 8
| You guys have been extremely helpful. Thank you so much! I will redo the testing in a few weeks and let you know how things go. So far, she is 100% better and on the mend! Million thank yous! |
Bookmarks |
|
|
Thread Tools | |
| |
|
|
SHOP NOW: Amazon :: eBay :: Buy.com :: Newegg :: PetStore :: Petco :: PetSmart