Need help in caring for Diamond

[Wylie's Mom]

Originally Posted by Nikis2

She seems to have a good appetite and has mainly stayed to herself since she came in late Sunday night. She is in heat with this male here so it has been difficult to just monitor her. Coupled with the fact that I am at my busy time of year with 3 litters of yorkie babies in. The poor dog does not know me or my home and animals and you know new Mommies are none to thrilled with strangers around so this has all been a bit overwhelming for us all. But, I now have her in the living room with me alone so I can monitor her. She does not seem to pee a lot and she is very protective over her food but is not consuming a whole lot of food. I have placed her food and water bowl close to her and I am not seeing her drink an abundance amount of water either. I am going to call my vet and see if she can do the blood work up. I am sure it hasn't been done in ages anyway, you are right let us start there.

Cushings testing is sort of a process...and not sure if your friend is willing to spend the $, but it should really be done. The first step is the urine cortisol-creatinine-ratio. This test can somewhat conclusively rule OUT Cushings, however, if it is positive - you then have to move to the more conclusive and definitive and expensive testing.

For the urine test, you have to catch the urine at home, bc you want the cortisol (stress hormone) levels to be measured *there*, not at the vet office - where she is super stressed and will produce excess cortisol. It should be first urine of morning--> if she pees on a tile floor, you can suck it up into a clean syringe.

I wonder...is there a reason her current vet has not tested her thyroid and/or for Cushings?

[dwerten]

my question is why did the vet let this dog have those pups if the male was so much bigger than the female. He should have spayed her back then and she would not have shattered her pelvis trying to have puppies that were too big. I feel so bad for this little girl

[dwerten]

Originally Posted by Wylie's Mom

Cushings testing is sort of a process...and not sure if your friend is willing to spend the $, but it should really be done. The first step is the urine cortisol-creatinine-ratio. This test can somewhat conclusively rule OUT Cushings, however, if it is positive - you then have to move to the more conclusive and definitive and expensive testing.

For the urine test, you have to catch the urine at home, bc you want the cortisol (stress hormone) levels to be measured *there*, not at the vet office - where she is super stressed and will produce excess cortisol. It should be first urine of morning--> if she pees on a tile floor, you can suck it up into a clean syringe.

I wonder...is there a reason her current vet has not tested her thyroid and/or for Cushings?

it sounds like they paid for alot of testing from op but who knows what kind of testing

First is does cushings run in pom breed alot as it runs in yorkie breed but not sure on pom breed but i do know alopecia x runs in that breed alot.

Good idea ann as looks like cost is an issue so figuring this out the cheapest way possible for this owner will be good. I know the thyroid panel is not that expensive and would be good to rule it out completely but my gut is this is alopecia x.

I will say the derm just told me with thyroid the dogs hair usually thins out all over but have read it is on the lumbar region but dd had it on neck mostly but she is thin all over too if that helps

Make sure if doing thyroid panel it is all 6 values not just T4

ann do you have any poms on cushings group?

[dwerten]

here is info on cushings and symptoms from a vet website

Hyperadrenocorticism (Cushing's Syndrome) in Dogs

here is info on hypothyroidism from a vet website

Hypothyroidism in Dogs

i have a hypot dog and she was smelly and musky smelling as well as hair loss

[dwerten]

sorry keep thinking of things

does she have a pot belly? Cushings dogs usually have pot bellies due to excess cortisol production. Ann please correct me if i am wrong just trying to throw out some things too look for as i think of it but Ann has much more experience on cushings since her dog has this but i have read alot on it due to my dog being on steroids and having cushing type symptoms on prednisone and why she is on prednisolone now. DD gained alot of weight and looked like a pot belly pig on prednisone as they produce too much cortisol if on a high dose of prednisone. She went from 5lbs to 8lbs not good

[Wylie's Mom]

Originally Posted by dwerten

it sounds like they paid for alot of testing from op but who knows what kind of testing

First is does cushings run in pom breed alot as it runs in yorkie breed but not sure on pom breed but i do know alopecia x runs in that breed alot.

Yeah, I'm wondering too about what testing was done - bc that would be interesting.

Cushings runs in Yorkies, poodles, beagles, boston terr, boxers, and dachshunds - mostly. Pseudo Cushings (X) is common in Poms - but the steps in delineating/typing the typical Cushings from pseudo are still largely the same. (blood work + signalment evaluation)

Typical or Atypical is more suspected if she has some of the other clinical signs/signalment present, like what I mentioned previously, and/or: pot belly, muscle wasting in legs, face/head, ear infections, depression. Can also show aggression due to increased cortisol in system.

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by Nikis2

She seems to have a good appetite and has mainly stayed to herself since she came in late Sunday night. She is in heat with this male here so it has been difficult to just monitor her. Coupled with the fact that I am at my busy time of year with 3 litters of yorkie babies in. The poor dog does not know me or my home and animals and you know new Mommies are none to thrilled with strangers around so this has all been a bit overwhelming for us all. But, I now have her in the living room with me alone so I can monitor her. She does not seem to pee a lot and she is very protective over her food but is not consuming a whole lot of food. I have placed her food and water bowl close to her and I am not seeing her drink an abundance amount of water either. I am going to call my vet and see if she can do the blood work up. I am sure it hasn't been done in ages anyway, you are right let us start there.

A basic chem profile is an inexpensive place to start. There are often clues in them. In most cushings dogs, you will see an elevated ALT.

As Wylie's Mom has said, there are tests that need to be done beyond that, but it is a good place to start.

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by Wylie's Mom

Yeah, I'm wondering too about what testing was done - bc that would be interesting.

Cushings runs in Yorkies, poodles, beagles, boston terr, boxers, and dachshunds - mostly. Pseudo Cushings (X) is common in Poms - but the steps in delineating/typing the typical Cushings from pseudo are still largely the same. (blood work + signalment evaluation)

Typical or Atypical is more suspected if she has some of the other clinical signs/signalment present, like what I mentioned previously, and/or: pot belly, muscle wasting in legs, face/head, ear infections, depression. Can also show aggression due to increased cortisol in system.

Yep....I have a yorkie with pseudo cushings so assuming based on breed is not an accurate way to diagnose.

He did not have an elevated ALT which led my vet from the beginning to think it was probably psuedo cushings, BUT that alone also was not enough. We did many other tests, including the biopsies and the ACTH stim test.

[Wylie's Mom]

Originally Posted by dwerten

sorry keep thinking of things

does she have a pot belly? Cushings dogs usually have pot bellies due to excess cortisol production. Ann please correct me if i am wrong just trying to throw out some things too look for as i think of it but Ann has much more experience on cushings since her dog has this but i have read alot on it due to my dog being on steroids and having cushing type symptoms on prednisone and why she is on prednisolone now. DD gained alot of weight and looked like a pot belly pig on prednisone as they produce too much cortisol if on a high dose of prednisone. She went from 5lbs to 8lbs not good

Many will have a pot belly, or some obesity - but then they'll have "muscle wasting" in legs, shoulders, head, pelvis.

But, not all will have weight gain. Wylie, for example, had his normal little athletic body - no gain at all. His signalment was pyoderma, ear issues, polydipsia/polyuria, fur thinning. He did have muscle loss in legs etcetera.

[dwerten]

Originally Posted by Wylie's Mom

Yeah, I'm wondering too about what testing was done - bc that would be interesting.

Cushings runs in Yorkies, poodles, beagles, boston terr, boxers, and dachshunds - mostly. Pseudo Cushings (X) is common in Poms - but the steps in delineating/typing the typical Cushings from pseudo are still largely the same. (blood work + signalment evaluation)

Typical or Atypical is more suspected if she has some of the other clinical signs/signalment present, like what I mentioned previously, and/or: pot belly, muscle wasting in legs, face/head, ear infections, depression. Can also show aggression due to increased cortisol in system.

so how much are the cost of testing if she wants to rule this out as cheap as possible by that urine catch?

i think thyroid testing i paid $70 for all 6 panels and blood work is usually a little over 100

LJ how much was the punch biopsy as i think you did that on yours?

[Wylie's Mom]

Originally Posted by dwerten

so how much are the cost of testing if she wants to rule this out as cheap as possible by that urine catch?

i think thyroid testing i paid $70 for all 6 panels and blood work is usually a little over 100

LJ how much was the punch biopsy as i think you did that on yours?

The urine cortisol-creatinine-ratio test isn't cheap, but it's usually where they start when Cushings is suspected bc it's the cheapest way to rule it out. I believe it's btwn $80-100. Whereas the ACTH Stim can be $200-400, easy.

For thyroid, we did the TSH, T3, and free T4 - if I'm not mistaken, we don't do the 6-panel for Wylie (he is hypothyroid too, btw) OY VEY .

[ladyjane]

The biopsies on him were $49 but that does not include sedation and they sent the samples away for the histocytology which was $90.

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by Wylie's Mom

The urine cortisol-creatinine-ratio test isn't cheap, but it's usually where they start when Cushings is suspected bc it's the cheapest way to rule it out. I believe it's btwn $80-100. Whereas the ACTH Stim can be $200-400, easy.

For thyroid, we did the TSH, T3, and free T4 - if I'm not mistaken, we don't do the 6-panel for Wylie (he is hypothyroid too, btw) OY VEY .

I have been meaning to ask my vet about the six panel test. It has never been suggested to me and I have had many pups tested for thyroid.

Thyroid is a cheap test!

[Patti]

My Pom had Cushing's and it was pretty expensive to diagnose. She had lost a lot of her fur but not that much. It did come back with treatment. I hope they can figure out what is going on with her.

[dwerten]

Originally Posted by Wylie's Mom

The urine cortisol-creatinine-ratio test isn't cheap, but it's usually where they start when Cushings is suspected bc it's the cheapest way to rule it out. I believe it's btwn $80-100. Whereas the ACTH Stim can be $200-400, easy.

For thyroid, we did the TSH, T3, and free T4 - if I'm not mistaken, we don't do the 6-panel for Wylie (he is hypothyroid too, btw) OY VEY .

dr dodds said tsh is a waste it is only 70% accurate in dogs and 95% accurate in humans. It is more expensive as well as i asked about it when she ran the 6 panel thyroid. The first time to diagnose they run all 6 panels but no TSH. Once they know the dog has hypot no need to keep running all 6 - I will check dd blood work but it is not all 6 after that as i questioned that.

The 6 panel is T4FREE, T4, T3FREE, T3, T4AA, T3AA - this should be done through michigan state lab or dr dodds but antech or idexx i believe can do it as well. The T4free should be 1.0 for yorkies per jean. Dee Dee was .38 on T4FREE when jean rant test. She was .78 the year prior so she dropped alot in one year. So she should have been on meds the year prior when vet only ran t4free and may have not lost all that hair.

Is wylie the one with allergies on atopica? If so hypoT and allergies go hand in hand - poor immune systems STINKS - I think it is a sebaceous gland excretion that causes the odor

HypoT dogs run hot and have a stinky musky smell as the thyroid is the bodies thermometer i believe