Epilepsy Cluster Seizures

[concretegurl]

Please note I started this thread under CECS in a Yorkie, I watched videos of dog seizures after leaving the emergency vet Friday night and though Elvie did nothing like that until i watch a video of a dog with CECS. Elvis has been dignosised with "cluster seizures" well diagnoises with epilepsy but the vet kept saying cluster seizures because there are variations. Has anyone had a Yorkie with this, know someone, anyone had or same a Yorkie who had very weird seizures...Elvis first started with his legs straight out the joints did not bend, I looked and though OMG are his legs broken? But he immediately began to lose motor control all together as he attempted to run to me, he went sideways and back staggering, his back arched up like a cat's when it hisses (that was the hardest part to witness there is no way he did that voluntarily nor comfortably) I grabbed him and every muscle in his body was a tense as could be--rock hard. He stayed that way for about three minutes and was responsive to me however his muscles contracted so hard he couldn't move, a couple minutes later it started again only this time after his back went up and his legs went straight out his little head went very slowly from right to left as far as it could go like he was slowly saying no, that lasted a few minutes I was frantically holding him searching for the vet's number (if you are reading this put your vet's number and after hours number on speed dial trust me) and looking for the emergency vet, Elvis began to have a third seizure he went over to his side and legs straight out while he looked at me and began to shake slightly. Obviously at this point I just grabbed him and went out the door to the closest vet's office down the road (I had a blanket over him out of instinct so glad I did). Every time I previously had seen or heard of a seizure someone almost always looses consciousness, can loose bowels or bladder control, foam at the mouth and shakes horribly...never have I seen one where the muscles literally tense completely and cause a virtual paralysis...anyone? For those of you who have never seen it, as I was before this, sorry for the drastic description. Elvis appears to be fine now, althoguh a few times he has began to shake and get very tense but nothing liek the first three times, the vet says seizures can vary in degree and Elvie can either begin to have them everyday, never again , or who knows from this point. I have a referral to a neurologist @ UC Davis...I just want to hear form some people who have seen their dogs do this or another, and find out if they experienced the little mild episodes as seizures too and wheat they have sought as treatment. I do have him on a raw food no beef diet now. Karo syrup ready, but I don't get clear directives until the Davis diagnosis.

[yorkieusa]

All I can say is that I'm sorry you're both having to go thru this. I hope you can get some answers soon and I'll send a prayer up that it'll never happen again.

[ladyjane]

Oh, I am so sorry. I cried reading this. I cannot imagine how helpless you must have felt.
I hope that the appt with the neurologist goes well.
I am sorry I don't have any helpful information for you, but want you to know that someone cares.

[slahey2000]

Hello! I know your post is old now, but I'm wondering if you ever found out what happened with Elvis? Yesterday, my baby had a seizure and it sounds exactly like what happened to Elvis. He was at daycare, and they said that it wasn't like a normal seizure, where the dog's legs and body shakes. Instead, all of his legs went straight and were incredibly tensed. It lasted for about 2 minutes. I'm so sad for him, it's so hard to know that your baby was in pain and can't possibly understand what is happening to him Anyway, I hope that Elvis is better now, and I like his name

[Ladymom]

Lady has had seizures since I adopted her at age 4.5. Ten years later we have them very well controlled with both phenobarbital and potassium bromide (KBr). We added KBr when she was 6.5 and started having cluster seizures.

Cluster seizures refer to the frequency of seizures (multiple seizures in a twenty-four hour period), not the behavior during the seizure.

Lady has typical Grand Mal seizures. She loses consciousness, falls down, jerks, paddles, yelps, loses control of her bowels and bladder, etc.

I am glad you are taking him to a neurologist. In the meantime, this website has been my "bible" over the years.

Canine epilepsy and diseases that cause seizures in dogs

[concretegurl]

Originally Posted by slahey2000

Hello! I know your post is old now, but I'm wondering if you ever found out what happened with Elvis? Yesterday, my baby had a seizure and it sounds exactly like what happened to Elvis. He was at daycare, and they said that it wasn't like a normal seizure, where the dog's legs and body shakes. Instead, all of his legs went straight and were incredibly tensed. It lasted for about 2 minutes. I'm so sad for him, it's so hard to know that your baby was in pain and can't possibly understand what is happening to him Anyway, I hope that Elvis is better now, and I like his name

I posted this today, Elvis had this on Friday, March 19, 2010. I haven't even picked up the referral papers or contacted the neuro vet @Davis, I'm really the wrong person to ask for advise, I'm seeking it right now. But keep reading this thread and maybe whatever help i get you can be aided in, most important thing you can do is take em to the vet for testing and get on here and talk to ppl. Vets are great but they are doctors, very clinical and unattached...they have to be for their own emotional well being, also vets seldom sit and talk about holistic dog treats and the more superior details of care, thus you have groomers and YT! Elvis seems to be fine, but I'm glad I re-posted he has been very well he seems to be having mood swings that coincide with I think are mini cluster seizures. he actually growled and barked at my son tonight, given Elvie doesn't really like kids, but he hasn't done that before and he has been a little moody the last couple days anyways on and off.

[Ladymom]

Originally Posted by concretegurl

I posted this today, Elvis had this on Friday, March 19, 2010. I haven't even picked up the referral papers or contacted the neuro vet @Davis, I'm really the wrong person to ask for advise, I'm seeking it right now. But keep reading this thread and maybe whatever help i get you can be aided in, most important thing you can do is take em to the vet for testing and get on here and talk to ppl. Vets are great but they are doctors, very clinical and unattached...they have to be for their own emotional well being, also vets seldom sit and talk about holistic dog treats and the more superior details of care, thus you have groomers and YT! Elvis seems to be fine, but I'm glad I re-posted he has been very well he seems to be having mood swings that coincide with I think are mini cluster seizures. he actually growled and barked at my son tonight, given Elvie doesn't really like kids, but he hasn't done that before and he has been a little moody the last couple days anyways on and off.

Did you see the link I posted above?

What you describe doesn't sound like "normal" seizures which happen and are over within a few minutes. Behavior changes, aggression, and mood swings sounds like there is something more going on.

As I mentioned above, cluster seizures refer to the frequency of seizures, not a particular physical behavior during a seizure.

Cluster Seizures: Two or more seizures occurring over a brief period of time (minutes to hours) but with the patient regaining consiousness between the seizures.

Cluster Seizures are multiple seizures within a 24 hour period time. This may also be life threatening.

Canine epilepsy and diseases that cause seizures in dogs

How old is Elvis?

I'd make that appointment with the neurologist asap if I were you.

[concretegurl]

I've nothing psoitive about phenobarbital other than it is in fact used for seizures, my vet recommended Valium both during a seizure to aid in the stopping preventing liver kidney damage and further neurological issue and as a treatment for "cluster seizures",along with another one started with a L, he said pheno concerned him in small dogs if not altogether. Yes I know they are the frequency, the problem with cluster seizures is that there is several in a short period causing damage before and on top of damage, and they over stress more than regular seizures. I appreciate the link, I have been sent that one, I'm just frustrated in not finding seizures similar to Elvis' I'm looking for a medicine that won't cause the same damage as the seizure itself, and again I'm strictly doing research right now I haven't yet taken him to Davis for testing and gotten a recommendations. I prefer holistic an homeopathic treatments, pharmaceuticals are great, unfortunately many of them are just as harmful if not more harmful than the issue you are treating for...please no one take that as a justification for not treating a dog with the proper treatment, I just like to know all possibilities and the ramifications of all possibilities, before proceding with the best treatment.
For example, my female schnauzer started getting beef stains , everyone swears by this product Angle Eyes, (hope they don't sue me for this) well yes it seems to work great but it contains a very serious regimens of antibiotics in it, why would I want to continually make my dog immune to antibiotics and giver her antibiotic daily for no infection? I was also suggested to use a peroxide solution...on her eyes and mouth and paws where she will eat it? I don't think so...I did more research, white dogs should be on special diets and groomed more often and the real issue was her food and to ensure she stays dry and is treated for yeast infections mildly. I changed her diet groom her 3 times a week instead of once and her beef staining on her feet, eyes, ears, and mouth is virtually gone.
I'm just looking for a shared situation and the advice someone can offer on everything the vet might not consider telling me...& EVERYONE SHOWING SUPPORT ON HERE HAS BEEN A BLESSING IN ITSELF TY TY TY

[concretegurl]

Originally Posted by Ladymom

Did you see the link I posted above?

What you describe doesn't sound like "normal" seizures which happen and are over within a few minutes. Behavior changes, aggression, and mood swings sounds like there is something more going on.

As I mentioned above, cluster seizures refer to the frequency of seizures, not a particular physical behavior during a seizure.

Cluster Seizures: Two or more seizures occurring over a brief period of time (minutes to hours) but with the patient regaining consiousness between the seizures.

Cluster Seizures are multiple seizures within a 24 hour period time. This may also be life threatening.

Canine epilepsy and diseases that cause seizures in dogs

How old is Elvis?

I'd make that appointment with the neurologist asap if I were you.

Elvis is 2 1/2 the vet said that is a common on set time for seizures, and that the mildness of seizures can vary, but call me naive I saw a video of a dog with CECS and I was like OMG that's what Elvis did! Apparently Yorkie's don't get CECS though, either or its neurological and epilepsy, the vet did many tests on him. I'm getting information on the vet neuro tomorrow and calling, I'm wondering if Elvis knows he not right and frustrated or what its not a dramatic change but I've only had him two months he came to me from a breeder who got him from another breeder, the breeder I got him from swears he has never done this before, I believe her as she bred him and now has two pups she has to adopt out instead of selling as they can have this issue also. I've heard through YT and various other internet information the breeder who bred Elvis had to end her breeding line for genetic issues, which she emphatically denies...but literally all this in what 5 days now. I'm still reeling from it all a bit and doing research research research preparing for the meeting with the neurologists`.

[Ladymom]

Oh, dear. My Lady is a rescue also. She had her first seizure three days after I adopted her.

Has Elvis had a bile acids test? Since liver shunts are so common in Yorkies and seizures are a classic symptom, he needs to have one to rule it out.

On the link I posted earlier, there is a whole list of things that can trigger seizures. Many are very common household items.

Just to reassure you, Lady has been on Phenobarbital for 10 years and her last ALT was 79 - perfectly normal! I have had her on milk thistle practically from the day she started pheno. (There is information about milk thistle on that website, too). Her liver values started to elevate a few years ago (300) and I started home cooking for her. Thankfully, her liver regenerated.

Lady's seizures were too frequent to not go on pheno. My vet told me that if she was only having a couple of seizures a year, we wouldn't medicate. She was having a couple seizures a week when I adopted her so we had no choice. As I am sure your vet told you, there is a risk of brain damage from too many seizures.

Have you heard of kindling? It's a phenomenon where the brain actually learns to have seizures by having seizures. Every time they have a seizure, the brain rewires itself to make a path so the next seizure is easier. That's why it's important to get seizures under control, especially cluster seizures.

Lady started having cluster seizures a couple years after she was diagnosed with epilepsy. I'm sure your vet told you how dangerous they can be. I'm glad you have Valium on hand.

I lost a rescue English Setter to epilepsy years ago. She started having cluster seizures one night and we couldn't stop them. She went into status epilepticus.

Hopefully the neurologist can find an underlying reason for his seizures. If he truly has idiopathic epilepsy, please try to be open minded about medication.

[concretegurl]

My vet ran all possible tests as well making sure he did not eat anything, or have a parasite...this is a neurological issue. I could have saved the time and expense of the extensive lab testing as Elvis never laves my side...literally I go potty and he comes in and lays down on the floor next to me, I go to the kitchen there he is behind me. He doesn't really play like other dogs, his only concern is finding a lap, and following me everywhere.
***I am opene minded to medication...in all forms, and as I said there is no excuse for ppl not properly medicating their dogs, mus issue is that most meds are triage treatments not cures and they have as many side effects as what they are treating,, I WANT THE BEST MEDS for Elvie, whatever they may be.**
I just wanted to say that there are a lot of little things that can be done to easy most medical issues on top of pharmaceuticals, liek my Schnorkie had a reflux issues, vet said let's monitor it, and see if its what he's eating, etc, someone suggested a raised feeder, I really am into raised feeders, it took about 10 minutes to find the right size for him, and then I picked one out that matched my home decor, and NO MORE REFLUX, that's extreme I had hope the reflux be eased but it was ceased. Little things help. I really appreciate your information sharing..and here's the link o the raised feeder, in case anyone reads this and its helpful to them, I actually have the larger for Scoobers and the smaller for Elvis, Princess being a white mini schnauzer has to drink from a dog water bottle

[concretegurl]

My vet ran all possible tests as well making sure he did not eat anything, or have a parasite...this is a neurological issue. I could have saved the time and expense of the extensive lab testing as Elvis never laves my side...literally I go potty and he comes in and lays down on the floor next to me, I go to the kitchen there he is behind me. He doesn't really play like other dogs, his only concern is finding a lap, and following me everywhere.
***I am open minded to medication...in all forms, and as I said there is no excuse for ppl not properly medicating their dogs, mus issue is that most meds are triage treatments not cures and they have as many side effects as what they are treating,, I WANT THE BEST MEDS for Elvie, whatever they may be.**
I just wanted to say that there are a lot of little things that can be done to easy most medical issues on top of pharmaceuticals, like my Schnorkie had a reflux issues, vet said let's monitor it, and see if its what he's eating, etc, someone suggested a raised feeder, I really am into raised feeders, it took about 10 minutes to find the right size for him, and then I picked one out that matched my home decor, and NO MORE REFLUX, that's extreme I had hope the reflux be eased but it was ceased. Little things help. I really appreciate your information sharing..and here's the link o the raised feeder, in case anyone reads this and its helpful to them, I actually have the larger for Scoobers and the smaller for Elvis, Princess being a white mini schnauzer has to drink from a dog water bottle
HUH can't get a link it, well Use the Bella Cottage (cheapest price) and look up raised feeder under the PETS section of the store.

[Ladymom]

Originally Posted by concretegurl

I just wanted to say that there are a lot of little things that can be done to easy most medical issues on top of pharmaceuticals.

I couldn't agree more! That's why I posted the list of common household items that can trigger seizures. Using scented detergent or dryer sheets to wash their bedding can trigger seizures. Rosemary can also trigger seizures in dogs with a low seizure threshold.

Heartguard has Ivermectin which studies have shown can trigger seizures. I use Interceptor which is considered the safest for epileptic dogs. Frontline is the recommended flea preventative for dogs prone to seizures. I also wait two weeks in between treatment. I do heartworm on the 1st of the month, flea treatment on the 15th.

I hope you and your vet can get Elvis' seizures under control.

[concretegurl]

Originally Posted by Ladymom

Heartguard has Ivermectin which studies have shown can trigger seizures. I use Interceptor which is considered the safest for epileptic dogs. l.

I use Frontline Plus, as we have major ticks here, and do the meds on the 8 and the 21 weird days but that's just when I go the RX from the vet. I had heard about the Rosemary and will look into your link, I'll contact my vet about switching his heart wormer tomorrow. So glad you posted on here to me! Thank you!
Personal note...
Luckily (did I actually just say luckily about our allergies?!?) we, my self daughter and son all have extreme allergies to mold, dust and pet dander hence we have three hypoallergenic dogs, we having serious allergies cannot use anything like perfumes, dyes, etc in out house hold items so what we do use is considered for hypoallergenic people, I'm also one of those health nuts who prefers everything homeopathic (meaning without harmful or ingredients that can cause reaction) and dust mites irritate my son so we have all hypoallergenic bedding and such-and the dogs have to have them too because they sleep with us.

[concretegurl]

Elvis had seizure tonight. Shortly after he chased barking and snapping at my son. I had to grab Elvis by his scruff and kennel him. He is calm now and back to normal. The vet talked about behavior changes...just not sure what to do right now...